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dtotire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:06 PM
Original message
New slant on Bible’s origins
New slant on Bible’s origins
01:00 AM EST on Thursday, November 13, 2008

By Richard C. Dujardin

Journal Staff Writer

Gary Glassman, of Providence, is the producer and director of a new NOVA documentary, The Bible’s Buried Secrets, which traces the origin of the Scripture. It will air on PBS on Tuesday.

PROVIDENCE — After years of producing documentaries on topics as varied as volcanoes, the secrets of the Parthenon and the crash of Swissair Flight 111, Providence-based filmmaker Gary Glassman has produced a stunning documentary about the origins of the Hebrew Bible.

The Bible’s Buried Secrets is a two-hour NOVA documentary that is scheduled to air on PBS Tuesday. Glassman, who is the show’s writer, producer and director, describes it as an archaeological detective story that explores how the ancient Israelites were transformed from being a people who worshipped many gods into a people who believed in a single God.

“The traditional story is that Moses authored the first five books of the Bible, but the consensus of most scholars is that it was the work of many hands,” says Glassman.

The film largely accepts the hypothesis of scholars who say those five books represent texts that were written over a period of several hundred years, which were compiled and edited into a form familiar to people today in 536 B.C. after the Jews went into exile in Babylon.

“If there had been a historical Moses, it would have been 700 years after his death.”
What’s that? Does Glassman say, “if” there was a Moses?
He explains that because the film had to be based on solid scholarship and research, the filmmakers had to look for evidence outside the scriptures. While there is a possibility that there were Jews who fled Egypt 3,200 years ago, the scholars who were interviewed by Glassman’s team found no evidence of a massive exodus of 600,000 men and their families as described in the Bible.

At the same time, Glassman says the film points to other exciting discoveries that help to support parts of the Bible story, such as a huge stone monument known as the Merneptah Stele, which is believed to have been erected by an Egyptian pharaoh around 1208 B.C. On it, the pharaoh lists the peoples he conquered, including the Israelites.

Stuck into maps of the Middle East at Glassman’s Providence Pictures headquarters on the third floor of the old Providence Journal Building at Eddy and Westminster streets are tacks showing numerous archaeological sites in Israel, Syria and Jordan that the filmmaker and his team visited during the two years they worked on the production.

During one visit to an archaeological dig in a valley in Tel Rehov, Israel, the team was on hand when archaeologists unearthed a clay figurine of Asherah, who was regarded by many of the ancient Israelites as a fertility goddess and consort to the god, El, who they believed would become “Yahweh’s wife.”
The finding of such figurines is not unusual. While many people assume, from the stories told to them in Sunday school, that the Israelites had been monotheists from the time of Abraham, the figurines as well as exhortations of Hebrew prophets against idol worship, show that the ancient Israelites were perhaps no different from other ancient peoples and believed in multiple gods, Glassman says.

But it is noteworthy, he says, how that changed during the period of the Babylonian exile. “Something happened during their exile that forged their belief in one God.”
For the first time, they identified themselves as Jews and read and studied a Bible that taught them to see themselves and their relationship to God in a new way.

To bring the story to life, Glassman and his team visited ancient ruins over two years and employed digital animation techniques that allowed them, for example, to show what the long-lost Temple of Solomon could have looked like before it was destroyed. They commissioned a hand-crafted illustrated Bible — a bound collection of art, featuring images of ancient frescoes and illuminated medieval manuscripts — which became part
of the film.


Read the rest:

http://www.projo.com/news/content/lb_bibles_buried_secrets_11-13-08_JEC4OJN_v26.3aba2d5.html
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fundie heads will explode.
"Noooooo, it's not truuuuuuuue. La-la-la-la-la-la" (hands over ears).
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I doubt it, louis-t. They obviously don't actually READ the scriptures. If they did they
wouldn't do the things they do.

Besides, you're talking PRE-jaheezus, so it doesn't matter to the fundies what it says.

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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. They get their religion from right-wing hate radio!
They hate this country and show it!
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. it will be interesting anyway. I am more interested in the history
than the myth. The babylonian exile gave them a lot of great stories.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. yes something DID happen in the exile
It was the influence of Zoroastrainism, which introduced the idea of an afterlife, a Messiah, a hell, angels, an adversary, and so on - in fact almost all the trappings and tenets that turned parts of Judaism into Christianity as well as revolutionized Jewish thinking.

This is not to say Zoroastrianism is in any way superior or more correct. Religions always influence each other, and religious though is no more static than any other. It is to say that during the time of most of the OT's final editing, and then during all the history of the Messiah myths and savior cults that launched the NT, one of the biggest influences on Jewish thought came from their Babylonian rulers. This of course was not limited to the exilic period, as trade and travel brought influence from Babylon before and after, but obviously 60 years of complete dominance was a very concentrated influence.
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srobert Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Persians
Probably it is not as much the Babylonians who influenced their faith, as the Persians who rescued them from captivity. Note how in the Bible, the Persian King, Cyrus the Great, is extolled as just and honorable, despite the fact that he is a Zoroastrian, and not a worshiper of the Hebrew god. (Although, possibly he conflated the two.) Moreover, it is at this point in time, following the captivity, that the Hebrews who return to Israel from captivity seem to have a view of God that is more similar to the way the Zoroastrians see Ahura Mazda. These are the forebears of the Pharisees. Notice how that word is similar to Farsi (the Persian language). That's not coincidental.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Religion as history!
I loved studying this stuff in college. Unfortunately, (fortunately?) I completely lost all faith in organized religion.

Welcome to DU!
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DUlover2909 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. Thanks. I read the Catholic Bible once from end to end and enjoyed lots of it.
I enjoyed all the footnotes and explanations of things. You mentioned some things I didn't know about. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. dmall and srobert--thank you-- fascinating points!!
love this stuff :)
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Blue_in_Mass Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. Yes, Zoroastrianism is the progenitor of monotheism.
You need to sift through the theocratic propaganda first, though, before this can be asserted with certainty.
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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. I think you have you timeline and nations confused...
The Babylonians were not Zoroastrians they were polytheists. The Persians were Zoroastrians, but you are correct as far as the influence the Persian religion had in further modifying the Hebrew monotheism. It should also be noted that the term "King of Kings," a title applied to Jesus was first applied to Cyrus the Great - who had allowed a measure of religious freedom in his domain which probably accounts for the regard the Hebrews had for the Persian leader. Real trouble began when the Greeks defeated the Persians and tried to Hellenize the region...
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. This should be fascinating.
Thanks for the thread, dtotire.
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prostock69 Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is why I'm a Deist
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for the info. Not to disrespect Glassmans work, but this info is
well known to anyone who has even a casual interest in biblical history.

The history of the bible is quite fascinating from the perspective of evolutionary literature. Piecing together the themes as they evolve is possible because so much was written and archived.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. And that's actually what the program's makers say too:
"The Bible's Buried Secrets" synthesizes decades of work in biblical archeology and provides an illustration of the scientific process at work. It shows how researchers pursue evidence and refine their ideas as new information emerges. Biblical archeology—the study of biblical lands and times based on material evidence—is a peer-reviewed field that uses a host of scientific techniques to date and analyze artifacts. As such, it is a powerful tool for understanding life in biblical times, including the houses people lived in, the temples they built, and even the gods they worshiped. It offers us a picture of the people who wrote the Bible, the ancient Israelites, and helps us understand what the narrative may have meant to them.
...
As with all our programs, we secured access to the most authoritative experts to make this film. Our aim was to present the most definitive synthesis of the latest thinking in biblical archeology and scholarship, and to forge this scholarship into a cohesive account of how an ancient people, the Israelites, came to believe in one God—the foundation for the universal God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Our program is different from others because it was not our goal to use archeology to attempt to prove or disprove the Bible. It was, rather, our intention to go beyond the question of fact or fiction to explore why the biblical narrative may have been written in the first place and what its deeper meaning may have been to the ancient Israelites whose history it relates.
...
Our approach is simply to present the results of mainstream, peer-reviewed biblical archeology and let viewers draw their own conclusions. Guided by our scholars, we look for archeological and historical evidence outside of the Bible, such as ancient inscriptions and artifacts, and examine how well this evidence corresponds to what is written in the Bible.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/apsell.html


But it can be surprising how many people who read the Bible thoroughly haven't bothered to find out what archaeologists or literary scholars have to say about it. So it can be interesting to see what a TV program makes them reconsider.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. as an atheist
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 04:49 PM by Soilent Brice
i find this pretty humorous. it amazes me how holier than thou people would think they are. of course the REAL history is not the same as what's in the books. duh.

i find the actual history to be far more fascinating than the inflated gibberish anyways.

i hope they unearth many more discoveries to come. the sooner people realize religion is man mdae we can move on to occupy our time with more productive things.

edit for K&R

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hmm hungry homeless desperate masses and someone was able to turn around their religious beliefs?
Wow who woulda thunk it?
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks for the heads up. Biblical archaeology is fascinating.
You don't have to be religious (I'm not) to find history like this absolutely fascinating. Will watch for sure. Thanks!
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. Looks like a great show.
Thanks for the heads up.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Devilishly awkward...
But they won't pay attention...

You can bring a horse to water... sigh...
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CraftyGal Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. TrogL sent me the link....
to the thread. We are going to record and watch it.

CraftyGal
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OxQQme Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Then, there's Innana
who was "The Numer-Uno" for a few thousand years before the Mose' story.
And who were 'all those other gods'?
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noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
19. This is NOT news....
Many scholars and theologians have known most of this for years.....

But it's sad that most of the public still believes a medieval
view of scripture, a view that is reinforced by all the fundie
crap that is broadcast thru the media, and pounded in the pulpits
all over our country.

Even this interview reveals some stupidity among those
who funded this film.

No wonder the world sees the faithful as mindless twits.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. ...
"No wonder the world sees the faithful as mindless twits"

:rofl:
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BB1 Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Mindless twits. Too bad there are
so damn many of them. Not just the religious twits - all the other ones as well...

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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. kick for one of my fav. newspapers
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. I recently reread James Michener's "The Source"
which has a lot of historical detail, not so much about the Bible itself, but rather about the development of the monotheistic faith of the Jews, later piggybacked onto and further incarnated as Christianity and Islam. For those who have never read this novel (which is, like most of Michener's works, very lengthy and well-researched), the framework story describes an archeological dig at a Tell in northern Israel. As the various layers in the dig are unearthed, Michener tells stories of the characters who lived there during the eras and the POV switches between the ancient and more modern eras. The novel was written before the 1967 War, which changed the future of that area dramatically and, as some may justifiably argue, not for the better. But the stories (and lessons) in the novel are amazingly relevant even today.

I believe generally that the development of human theologies, whatever the religion concerned, is fascinating and enjoy reading about it. But I also believe that trying to describe religion is like the elephant being described by the blind men. Each one described what he experienced and for each one, the experience was a correct one: the one by the tail determined that an elephant was like a rope; one by a leg believed that an elephant was like a tree; one by the trunk believed that an elephant was like a snake, and so it went. But the sum of the experiences described did not equal the elephant.

Anyway, just sayin ... and thanks for the post.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. Pat Roberts will issue a fatwa against Mr. Glassman. Probably call in a meteorite shower on him.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
27. These scholars are one pov, and increasingly not the consensus.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Actually THEY ARE the consensus
we KNOW this was written by four groups of writers and this consensus started to form in the Seventeenth century... and it is THE CONSENSUS today
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
29. Watched it, and been readying on this for a while
it increasingly looks like Homeric writings

Yes, there was a King Agamemnon, just not contemporary to the War on Troy

There was a war on Troy, just not achilles getting an arrow though his foot...


So there was a David, just not an Empire

So there was a Josiah... and he was one of the people commisioning this.

So there were plenty of people worshiping idols up and until the Babylonian exile

And no, there were no patriarchs and no exodus, which takes NOTHING from the moral of the story

And yes some fundy heads should explode, don't care what faith

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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
32. More altering of a wise tale, go figure.
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