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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:02 PM
Original message
Why the Democrats - and Obama - Forgave Lieberman
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20081118/us_time/08599186039600;_ylt=ApoovHMUghgHGvh1FdSJeKys0NUE

Why the Democrats - and Obama - Forgave Lieberman

By JAY NEWTON-SMALL / WASHINGTON Jay Newton-small / Washington – Tue Nov 18, 5:20 pm ET


Throughout his political career - from his earliest days as a state senator and Connecticut attorney general to his roles as U.S. senator, Vice Presidential nominee, pariah to the left and prominent endorser of John McCain - Joe Lieberman has never been shy about speaking his mind. That outspokenness on the campaign trail is what got him in his recent predicament, where his fate as chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee and member of the Democratic caucus depended on the good graces of Senate Democrats.

Lieberman easily won the vote on Tuesday allowing him to keep his chairmanships, but he might not have been so fortunate without the implicit backing of President-elect Barack Obama, the same man Lieberman said so many nasty things about during the race for the White House. Yet Obama wasn't just acting out of bipartisan good will. In supporting Lieberman's continued inclusion in the Democratic caucus, he may have effectively defanged his toughest potential opponent in the Senate Democratic caucus. If Lieberman is anything, as he proved with John McCain, he's loyal - and now he owes Obama a big one. His job over the next few years, for the first time in his long political career, is to keep quiet.

The move is especially savvy because Obama - and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid - know that in order to achieve virtually anything on the Democrats' long list of ambitious legislation they will need every vote they can possibly get in the Senate. Obama's biggest challenge in both chambers of Congress will be keeping the varying factions of his own party together, especially more liberal members and the more conservative so-called Blue Dog Democrats. To that end Lieberman can be an asset, especially in helping to convince his fellow moderate members in the so-called Gang of 14, including some Republicans like John McCain and Lindsey Graham. "We need every person that we can in Congress working constructively to move forward with the new agenda for our country," says Senator Ben Cardin, a Maryland Democrat. "Look, we're the majority party, we have the responsibility to act, and we've got to bring in the broadest possible coalition in order to get that done, and Senator Lieberman can be a very valuable member of our team."

The Gang of 14 - or what's left of it, now that Republicans John Warner, Mike DeWine and Lincoln Chafee have all either retired or lost re-election bids - came into existence in the Spring of 2005 to prevent the far left and right wings of the two parties from blowing up the Senate over several of President Bush's judicial appointments. Senate Republicans wanted to use an arcane Senate rule to effectively overcome, and therefore destroy, the fillibuster. "While Presidents come and go every four to eight years, judges could be there 20 to 30 years. More and more decisions are being made by the courts," says Norm Ornstein, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. "So you're going to have a number of instances - at least a few fairly soon - where you might get filibusters. And that's where calling in party loyalty matters and it makes sense to keep Lieberman in the fold."

For anybody with doubts about Lieberman's fate, Obama's meeting with McCain in Chicago on Monday was a clear sign that the President-elect is more interested in building bridges than tearing them down. Reid himself underscored that theme at a press conference following the caucus meeting where members voted 42-13 to allow Lieberman to remain in the caucus and to keep his chairmanship of the Homeland Security and Government Reform Committee - though they stripped him of his seat on the Environment and Public Works Committee. "I would defy anyone to be more angry than I was," said Reid. "But I also believe that if you look at the problems we face as a nation, is this a time we walk out of here saying, "Boy, did we get even"?

snip//

Many members of the caucus are still furious with Lieberman - 13 voted against him in the secret ballot and many more emerged saying that while this was good for the country they personally will have a tough time forgiving him. That lingering resentment should help guarantee his cooperation. "It is the iron law of reciprocity. He will remember and help those who helped him at a critical time in the future," says James Thurber, director of American University's Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies. "It is politically smart. The President and the Democrats will need him in the future. It is part of building bipartisanship and political capital."
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Lieberman is the political version of a suicide bomber
and he will destroy whatever Obama does!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Baloney. Did you even bother to read this? Or do you have ANYTHING
to back up your ridiculous statement with?
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I read it
and would be happy to mention all of Lieberman's statements from 2005-07 about the Democratic Party, the leadership of the Party and Democrats in general suggesting we were not patriotic. That our criticism of the bush admin imperiled the lives of our soldiers and the security of America.

The man's continued appearances with sean hannity, where he has openly criticized the Party.
Suggested we are soft on terrorism and that our loyalty to this country is somehow not there.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. We're approaching 2009 and he got spanked this week. Not canned,
but spanked. I'm sure it's now either get in line with the Dems or get lost.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Fool me once...
I was stupid enough to believe (after he beat Lamont in the 06 GE) that he would live up to his word.

I'm not about to be bitten twice.

I called my Senator (Durbin) and told his office what I thought of this and that Durbin would never get another dime from me or my vote ever again.

When a man who never wore the uniform in the service of his country questions my patriotism (a man who did serve 89-93) and question my supoport of American soldiers and then suffer no consequences for attacking me and my Party then I have to seriously question if this is the Party for me.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. OK, be a defeatist and be miserable. Not much I can do about that. nt
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obama is too cool
Why would Obama stoop so low as to get involved with holy joe? And nowhere can be found any quote from Obama approving of joe's crap or his retaining the chair.

Obama knows joe's days are numbered, so why fight a dying horse? And why do people keep asserting Obama helped joe when there is NO proof whatsoever?

It's as if I were to say babylonsister supports terrorists... just look at the name!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. LOL!
Nice analogy?! :crazy:
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Obama now owns Lieberman's ass ...
... until such time as the good people of Connecticut go to the polls and slam the door shut on it.

I would have preferred to see Consequences, but the loss was small -- smaller than the moral hazard involved, but moral hazard is in fashion these days.

As for forgiveness, I'm all for it -- just as soon as Lieberman does some penance. But I'm not holding my breath.

--p!
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. We can only guess at what transpired between President Obama and LIEberman...
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yep ...
... that scenario of yours was so easy for me to imagine, it was uncanny. :thumbsup:

But it's quite a switch. Instead of a devil owning the soul of an honest man, an honest man owns the soul of a devil.

You know, I think I like it better this way.

:evilgrin:

--p!
Those Sicilians, they're very ... spiritual ... people. Very spiritual.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. If I had 5 bucks for every time I heard this sort of hogwash...
Democrats never learn.

Instead, they rationalize appeasement time and again, and time and again- when push comes to shove, they (and we) get screwed.

After 25 years of this- one would think people would wake up and smell the coffee- realize that not only do they gain ZERO respect and credibility from these "unity" efforts -but are roundly (if not publically LAUGHED AT) by the far right and their supporters and enablers.

What a bunch of suckers.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. You must relish this. Just wait and see the results. nt
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Why would anyone "relish it?" -just seen the process hundreds of time before
and there's absolutely nothing to indicate that the same process won't keep on happening. Why shouldn't it?

There aren't any consequences for folks like Liebermann, Nelson et al -and therefore they'll keep acting against the party's and the public's interest, as they always have.

Wait and see what happens when meaningful reforms comes up for votes. I would LOVE to be proven wrong, but I won't be.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. "Impeachment is off the table!"
Eight years of abuses of power and criminal conduct by Bush & Co., together with eight years of appeasement and collaboration.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. 'History will not be kind to the appeasers...for we shall be writing it!'
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Good Article
Thanks for posting it.

After 8 years of railing against *bush
some people just can't turn off the anger
and hang up the tin foil.

Obama is one hell of a smart politician.
I won't worry about it if he doesn't.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Fuck the "anger!" The issue is law breaking and their enablers.
Lieberman promised to hold hearings and investigate wrongdoing during and after Katrina. It was Lieberman who killed the investigation as soon as he got the gavel of the Homeland Security committee.
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I'm Not Happy About Lieberman
retaining anything but I'm not going to
spend the next 4 years bitching about everything
I don't agree with. I don't have the time or energy.

Maybe it's time I simply go back to just finding
useful links in the "editorials" and "latest breaking"
forums and skip the comments / rants altogether.
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. On what issues can Lieberman be expected to switch
now that he has retained his chairmanships? Doesn't the self-proclaimed independent label mean he's always going to vote his beliefs? What incentive does this example provide to Senators who have toed the party line when expedience, preference or conviction would have urged them in another direction? Sorry, I'm not buying.

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Citizen_Penn Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. You know, I wouldn't mind seeing a little less toeing the line
from anyone and everyone.

Don't see much progress coming from two opposite lines. Remember that kid's game, Red Rover?

Not much fun, no progress, no point.

If Joe goes wacko, we have a process to get rid of him. Next time he runs for office.
Let the good people who voted him for him decide his fate.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
21. I Think They Lieberman Some Rope, Not Forgivenesss
Obama wants to see if Lieberman is stupid enough to hang himself.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
22. I stopped reading
when the author said Lieberman's actions during the election prove he is loyal. That is delusional. Anything else this person who confuses betrayal with loyalty has to say is not worth reading. Loyal? If I had been so loyal I'd have been tombstoned from freking DU, much less the Senate.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
23. Smart move
This and offering Hillary the SOS. I'm impressed with Obama and his clear-headed approach to governance. I'm sure he made his desires known in the Senate about this Lieberman issue.


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Citizen_Penn Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
24. Forgiveness is an act that heals the actor, not the receipent
As such, the acceptance and continued presence of Joe Lieberman in the Democratic Caucus - heals and helps us. It's not about him.

Having him close, and voting with our team - how does that hurt us?

Reject him, throw him out of the caucus, and where has he to go? RIGHT.

Instead, our leadership has chosen to overlook the rancor and calls for REVENGE - and left him in the fold.

To do otherwise, encourages the continued name calling. And, frankly, as a Democrat, I don't need for everyone to agree with me. That's not one of my core values.

Reminds me a bit of those here who yell for Hillary to be accepted for any post, absent vetting, due to her years of service. Not only is that silly, it requires me to suspend my rights for LOYALTY?

Yes, this is precisely what I expected from Barack Obama. It's why I supported him. He understands democracy, and that is a precious, even priceless, quality in a leader.

Well done, sir. I continued to be amazed.
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Blue_in_Mass Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. I certainly haven't forgiven Lieberman.
I never will.

He is a hypocrite. Self serving, not interested in the soundness of the democratic party, nor in the will of the people as expressed by the supermajority obtained by Obama.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. "Obama's Art of War"
"Now that the Obama era is underway, consider this the first illustration (and casualty) of the new art of war. (And, I'm not talking about the way Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Bolton, Bush, McCain and those other cavemen thought to practice it. I'm talking about something a lot more Taoist.)

In June, Obama hit Joe with the stick (taking him to task for disloyalty on the Senate floor), and yesterday, he finished him off with the carrot. In allowing Lieberman to retain his chairmanship of the Homeland Security committee after Lieberman played footman to McCain and banged away at Obama for months, Lieberman stays in the Democratic fold but in a severely weakened and dependent state.

"But then, words are superfluous in comparison to this brilliant picture by Getty's Mark Wilson. Not only does a chastened Lieberman wear the face of a schmuck, in the absolute center of a sea of reporters, he commands the attention of no one."

(Pic of the schmuck lieberman)
http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2008/11/obamas-art-of-war.html



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