THE SOUTH

[Demeter]

....For many years, the Democratic Party controlled the agenda of American politics and Southerners controlled much of the Democratic Party. So the South had enormous political influence.

Later, most Southerners switched to the Republican Party, but by then it was Republicans who controlled the agenda of American politics. So the South still had enormous political influence.

As of January 20th, however, the Democratic Party will control the American political agenda once again. But Southerners are still Republicans, which means that their political influence will be nearly nonexistent.

In other words, for the first time since Reconstruction, the South will be almost completely shut out of national power. There are still a few liberal Southerners who belong to the Democratic Party, of course, but the reactionary, traditionalist South is, for the time being, nearly powerless. They will not control anything, their caucus is a discredited rump, and their influence will be negligible. There is no reason to fear them or to care what they think. Their power to filibuster, itself guttering and only barely alive following the 2008 election, will be all they have left.

This is the first time this will be true in well over a century. So say it again: The South will have essentially no influence over the course of American politics for the next eight years. We live in momentous times.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/11/the_south.html

[DonCoquixote]

1. Geesh

First of all, states like Virginia, Florida and North Carolina were a big part of Obama's victory. granted, those happen to be parts of the South where a northern influx has made an odd northern/southern mix, but they are still southern. There ARE democrats here, who, as Dean showed, can come through if they are given support. Second, Obama knows that if he wants to change the South, he cannot allow those who want to saw us off to have sway.

[Tunkamerica]

2. This type of talk really makes me mad

especially since I come from a state in the south that went for Obama, elected a democratic governor again along with a democratic senator (taking one seat away from the republicans). Why do people feel the need to be so divisive? And why do other people feel the need to spread the divisiveness? You know, if I wasn't liberal to the bone I might just see some northern democrats as elitist assholes who always look a gift horse in the mouth. Luckily I understand that most democrats realize that it takes 50 states to make the United States and that we have more in common than we have differences. Especially today when culture is not just nationwide it spreads across the globe.

So...for those of you who refuse to join us in the 21st century why don't you just go play a game of Risk where everything is cut and dried, north south west United States. Your insular views are as dead as you claim the south's influence is.

[virtualobserver]

4. coming from a county in Texas that voted 77% for McCain....

the thing that makes me mad is the fact that I have to drive around and look at flags flying at half-staff in reaction to Obama's election, and I have to watch my neighbors stock up on guns because they think that Obama and Pelosi will seize them all.

The south is a great reservoir of ignorance, and until that changes, the nation benefits from their loss of power.

[Tansy_Gold]

14. Not the south; The South

As in The Confederacy.

At least, that's the impression I got from the essay: It's not that the south and contemporary southerners have no influence but that the remnants of the ante-bellum South, the Gone with the Wind South, the Stars-n-Bars /sic/ South, the Lester Maddox/Strom Thurmond/Bull Conner South no longer have national political power.



Tansy Gold

[Uncle Joe]

24. To answer your questions, because oligarchs and corporatists rule by dividing and conquering.

It is an art form with them, they fear more than anything a truly United States without regional bias for them to magnify for their purposes of manipulation and advancement of their own narrow, self serving, agenda. They will be happy to use race, gender, region, religion, sexual orientation, personal lifestyle, or anything else as a wedge to keep the American People divided. This is why when the nation as a whole shows signs of healing or coming together, they or their surrogates are the first to rub salt in any emotional wound to prevent the people from feeling the power of truly being united.

"Why do people feel the need to be so divisive? And why do other people feel the need to spread the divisiveness?"

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

30. Well Said..............

I too am a Southern liberal Democrat whose state went for Obama, has a Democratic governor, and two Democrats in the Senate now. It's a big tent we have, let's work to keep things in perspective.

[virtualobserver]

3. The Republican party's economic view did not differ much from the view of the Confederacy....

I have long viewed the 1994 takeover by the Repubs, along with the 2000 ascension of Bush as the final revenge of the Confederacy.
They wanted to consolidate the wealth in the hands of the top 1% (slave owner) and reduce wages for workers to as close to zero as possible (slave).

[Demeter]

5. I Think The North Finally Won

and the Civil War is coming to an end at last.

[Ecumenist]

6. AGAIN.... And this time, reconstruction will work without terrorist's intrusion.

[DonCoquixote]

7. We are seeing them retreat

But we must never count them out, especially as their heads are loaded with things that LOOK like Virtue, but are really perverted by Wolves in sheep's clothing. These are people who do not realize the full extent of they harm they do, and who believe they are fighting an evil group of people. Of course, it does not help those of us who worked and argued and fought down here when some Yankee crows and tries to pour salt in a wound.

[Tunkamerica]

8. Well, if you really believe that, the type of talk in this article

only serves to divide. The north loves to say that the south is still fighting the civil war. I only hear that from cynical northern liberals and southern racists. Most of us have moved on. Maybe "y'all" should take a hint and move on.

[Tansy_Gold]

15. You're missing the point.

The point is not that the people and issues of the southern states don't matter; it's that the traditional "Confederate" power bloc has lost its influence.

It's in effect saying that the NEW SOUTH, a South that has finally shed a significant portion of its racist, rural, rightwing, plantation mentality, IS in power and has rejoined the rest of "the Union" in working toward what's good for all of us rather than just a tiny elite percentage of us.




TG

[Tunkamerica]

29. that might be your point

but how could anyone think that the article you posted is some high-minded treatise on the "New South"? It specifically "they" don't matter, never will again. Like we can't walk into a Barnes and Noble in the South and buy Mother Jones. Or don't have the internet. It's insulting. And it's a fairly common attitude on here. How long has the party been trying to regain the south? And once they do they insult all the people who had to work ten times harder than people in the blue states to make it happen.

If that's not your point then don't post the article (and I realize that you didn't post it).

[Tansy_Gold]

35. It's not an "article." It's a blog post. Read it. And read the comments.

The blogger is writing about the political block that was -- WAS -- "The South." That "South" no longer exists, which is why it no longer has political power.

And you're correct. I didn't post it. I did read it.


One of the reasons "The South" has the reputation it has -- racist, rural, mired in the past (esp. the Confederacy -- is that many Southerners still identify more as Southerners than as Americans. We've fought battles here on DU over the whole issue of "Southern Heritage." It's clear that there are still many "Southerners" who can't get past that.

But hey, I'm a native Chicagoan who lived for many years in rural and very Republican Indiana and have now lived for over 23 years in Arizona. I don't have a dog in your fight, and it's clear you can't see the bigger issue, so I'm outta here.

[Syrinx]

9. no constructive purpose is served by articles like that

A fifty-state strategy is still essential for the long-term health of the Democratic party, and more importantly, of the nation.

Even here in Alabama, which the Republican nominee won 60-40, just like in 2004, we picked up a House seat. We went from 5-2 Republican in the House, to 4-3, and actually won TWO of the three contested House races. Admittedly, the winners were more Blue Dog than Yellow Dog, but they were Democrats, and much better than the alternative. I'll take a Blue Dog Democrat over an Alabama Republican any day.

It is essential for the health of our democracy to stop pitting one group against another, and that definitely includes regions of the country.

[safeinOhio]

10. Right now I'm a little pissed

at some southern Senators for blocking the loan to the Big 3. Hope ya all don't mind the north and north east voting against cotton farmers, tobacco farmers and hurricane relief. Sorry.

[DonCoquixote]

23. Oh really

You would sacrifice people to hurricanes just so that GM and Ford can have more money to steal while they plan their bankruptcy, the one they will use to kill of the UAW once and for all? That money is NOT going to the workers, never was meant for them, never will get to them, period. All it will do is buy them more time to do what they want, declare bankruptcy, and declare they are too broke to make green cars. Why do you think they want the 25 Billion to come from the fund imposed on them to fund Green cars?

I will admit some Southern senators do have bad intent, but when you talk about punishing everyone, you act like a republican, especially after some of us busted our back trying to win Florida for Obama.

[Syrinx]

37. I'm against subsidizing agribusiness

So be sure to tell your senators. I'm still for the government helping victims of natural disasters. If you're not, perhaps you have picked the wrong party to support.

[safeinOhio]

38. The point is, I am for the workers

You want to throw auto workers under the bus because of management. Look I'm for the government working for the workers as well as the rich and powerful. I'm only pointing out that the result of regionalism, is more regionalism. I'd help storm victims before bank CEOs every time.

[boomerbust]

11. You Go Girl

<<<<< Love it.

[quickesst]

12. Maybe we'll just fall into the ocean.....

....taking every man, woman, and child with us. Problem solved. Collateral damage:acceptable. Cancer upon the the rest of the country: excised. Momentous. Thanks.
quickesst

[Demeter]

17. It Is Not the People of the South, But The Politics

especially the racist, ignorant, cut-off-everyone's noses, religious-frenzy politics that have held up this nation for 150 years or more. Slavery was wrong, no amount of umbrage can reverse that, and it is time that those who would put other people down so they don't have to stretch and grow realize that their time is finally over. Forever.

[secondwind]

13. No wonder there is so much fuss about Chambliss' Senate seat!

I hear Al Gore will be in GA this weekend to campaign for Martin.

[morillon]

16. Yes, Big Al will be here!

Georgia is growing increasingly liberal these days. My county swung blue by over twelve percentage points from 2004 to 2008 and went Democratic for the first time in DECADES. I'm very proud of my peeps here.

[Are_grits_groceries]

18. Dems better pay attention to the South and quit whacking it indiscriminately.

Percent Change in Population from April 1, 2000 (Estimates Base) to July 1,2006


http://factfinder.census.gov

Check out the map that shows voting shift:
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html

The South is growing. And a lot of it is shifting blue. It is foolish to ignore it. A lot of people still write off the South even though these 2 changes are apparent in a lot of the region.
There are posts about the South all the time and most are uncomplimentary. There are a lot of jackasses still here, but a general bashing of the whole area hits everyone.
When all people have heard for years have been Republican memes, that is what they will believe and it only reinforces what they already may feel.
Put some other voices in here that are going to stay and try to help change the debate. You won't get everybody by a long shot. But NC and VA should give you an idea what can be done. It will take extra work in places.
In addition, I can't forget about the effing war because somebody is always bringing it up and rubbing it around. They aren't necessarily from the South.

[depakid]

32. Policies supported by a majority of Southererners have been SO effective

and successful.

No reason whatsoever to pander to fundies and corrupt and ignorant sorts for whom words like "liberal" have become unthinking shibboleths.

Instead, show people from all regions of the country how progressive policies improve their lot- as well as the overall economy.

[Are_grits_groceries]

33. I wouldn't pander to them if you made me listen to Palin 24/7.

There still needs to be a concerted effort to counter the RW memes that have been heard ad nauseum. If policies a re successful,
you bet the R's will try to claim success. People can't change their minds if there is nothing to change it to. As I said, some
people will never change. However, you can start trying to catch some before early.

[depakid]

34. Dean had the right idea on this

Everyone needs well paying jobs, affordable- or better yet universal healthcare and good schools for their kids.

Republican policies- many of them from Southern Republican leaders over the past 15 years have been shown to produce the opposite (while pandering to fundies on cultural matters like, say Terry Shiavo).

When it comes right downb to it- particularly in hard economic times, my bet is that a lot- probably not a majority in some nutter states- but a sizable and growing majority can be persuaded by the evidence that they're better off with progressive Democrats rather than Republican ideologues or the DINO's who enable them.

[Are_grits_groceries]

36. One of the most important things that someone can do

is just get to know the people and show them that someone cares. Evidence of progress will help, but the Dems need
people reaching out and giving them a personal touch. Obama touches people through the media better than anyone.
:hi:

[CitizenPatriot]

19. complicated issue

but the author might have been better served to ID the Old South, not the current south or her people. It just doesn't seem very smart to write off PEOPLE and think you're getting somewhere, though I certainly get the temptation.

I live in GA but I came from California. Not a native southerner. But from what I can see, the racial issue here is much more complex than outsiders realize. And from my outsiders perspective, yes, many of the entrenched old southerners (old money) seem to begrudge the civil war. This is hard to miss with the confederate flags, the word Yankee thrown around as largest insult, and the fact that people with enough money all seem to want to live on a plantation (now called a resort) where black people wait on them. Sorry, but it's kind of gross. To top it off, I pass a lot of "Welcome to the United States of Socialism" signs on homes and churches when I'm in South Carolina (what is with SC? Is it because it had slavery first and hung on for so long? I noticed that Charleston went blue! Congrats!). It sure looks like anger and resentment over losing the old ways. It looks like religious hatred being used to fan the flames of old resentments.

That said, when people make their off the cuff remarks about the south, it only serves to remind me that one shouldn't form opinions without actually being informed. In Ga, we registered over 400,000 new voters in a few months. New, mostly democratic voters. My county went blue.

While there are many who are entrenched in old ways, there are hundreds of thousands who want progress and change. And while ugly racial slurs are common among a certain class of people, there is also a great familiarity and comfort and seeming respect among the old moneyed wealthy and the african americans who serve them. Sure, they are serving them and that's weird to me. But too miss this relationship of trust as one blithely writes off the south is a mistake. Those relationships have formed a foundation of care, and care can be used to promote change and interest in the well being of another. Instead of turning your back in anger at the fact that this is still going on, study it and see what can be turned into a positive for everyone involved.

It's great that the southern politics of religious bias won't be dominating DC, but let's not write off the people. One needn't cater to an out-dated belief to court the people following it and encourage progress. And that only makes sense. I, for one, will feel better each time a gun-toting bible-thumper who is misinformed and fearful is awakened and puts down their gun. Especially because it's legal here in GA now to bring a loaded gun into a restaurant. We ignore that faction at our own peril. Much better to make subtle but concerted effort to include them in our great march forward.

And remember that these people are only doing what they know; often times, their hearts are good and caring while their actions are deplorable or cringe-worthy. A small bit of ethnographic study allows us to study a culture from within without our prejudices getting in the way -- and it seems to me like that is the only way to plant the seeds of change.

Nuff said.

[Are_grits_groceries]

20. I am a native, and I don't know sometimes.

If you looked at the shift map, even a lot of it is moving blue. Only 2-3 counties were trending toward Republicans. That is opposed to OK where every county went toward red.I know there are a lot of people from OK working to go blue, and I know it is frustrating.
I wish I could take you around SC. When people travel through, the flags and crap block out any other memories that might form. Only the nuttters get heard.

[CitizenPatriot]

22. You're right- I shouldn't judge based on the flags, etc

I apologize for jumping the gun. I am still holding residual resentment from the SC state senator who had the Obama/Osama picture on his state govt website and denouncing Obama as a muslim terrorist. Reading the horrific and violent comments from his constituents brought me to the lowest point of the campaign season.

SC is a BEAUTIFUL state. when I was in Charleston, before I realized it went blue, I was so happy to see several Obama signs in downtown homes. I do share your heartfelt desire to have the rest of the country understand that the state isn't comprised of the more obvious sentiments. We certainly have a lot of that here, as well.

We are making a steady march forward, but progress is never easy or swift and the letting go process is often ugly.

[RedLetterRev]

25. I feel you, AGG

Where I'm from in the south, it's Blue, always has been Blue. I'm a Democrat from a strongly Democratic family. Racism and sexism were disdained in our household as "common" and though we were the poorest of the poor, we prized our dignity. As you say, though, only the nutters get heard and we all seem to get painted with the same brush. South-bashing on DU is a recreational pastime. I've travelled in 38 out of the Lower 48 and lived in 10 of them. I've been more places in the US than Hank Snow. No place has a lock on racism or sexism, yet when the subject comes up, reliably the south gets painted with it and the north bears little-to-no introspection on the subject.

I'm old enough to remember the riots in the northeast when integration came to pass up there. They were every bit as ugly and violent as anything the south ever came up with. When I lived in Chicago, the N-bomb was thrown around more freely than I ever heard growing up (that word was NEVER allowed in our home). I've seen the divisions between neighborhoods in NY and NJ, Chicago, LA and Dallas, where one color doesn't dare set foot in the other's turf. Tell me that's just a southern thing. It isn't.

This nation as a whole has one long damn way to go. All of us. There's not one region that can safely point a finger at another one.

When it comes to politicians, though, agreed we have our share of idjits. What a lot of people don't realize is that a lot of that has been foisted on us by years of marginalization and gerrymandering where Democratic voices are systematically drowned out and diluted. There are more Democrats, Liberals, Progressives, whathaveyou here than most folks realize. Due to systematic dilution, though, again as you pointed out, only the nutters get heard. But let's not forget that the north and the west have also got their share of nutters in Congress, too.

If anyone wants to discuss the Civil War, I'm fully prepared on that subject as well. I'd really rather not. Genealogy forced me to learn more history than I ever took an interest in during my years in school. There are ugly truths on both sides of that atrocity, much, I find, the north would wish to bury as much as the south would. Let's not go there. We have problems today.

[Are_grits_groceries]

26. LOL! I never had to study about the war.

I think I picked it up by osmosis. The only reason my cousins and I knew that there had been a Revolutionary War was because I grew up where Francis Marion roamed. We knew all the battles and generals and whatever. We would sit on the front porch rocking and swinging on hot days. W'e be drinking tea. Nobody would be saying a word, and then somebody would say, "Damn JEB! Why was he wandering?" However, we learned a contrarian history too. Somebody later on would sigh and say,"Wish Lincoln had skipped the play." We were taught that his death was the worst thing that could have happened after the defeat. Not too common a thought.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

31. Wow...

Your post sounds like I may have wrote it. Well said neighbor.

[morillon]

27. It's not just old money Southerners who can be regressive in their thinking.

In fact, the most entrenched Democrat-haters you'll find are POOR Whites. They are very, very threatened by the social and economic progress of Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Arabs, and Jews. The most virulent racists I know are lower middle class Whites.

That said, there are New Deal Democrats here who've never forgotten what FDR did for the country, and they're from all socioeconomic and racial groups. These people consistently vote Democratic, and I am fortunate to count them among my family and friends.

Part of the reason the South is growing more liberal is that people from other areas of the country (and the world) are moving here, sure. But it's important to remember that a certain core of the South has been liberal all along. And, too, there are people who've been conservative for a long time who are gradually coming around to a new way of thinking.

[Two Americas]

21. the South is rural

The South is more rural than the Northeast and the Midwest, and those areas vote conservative no matter where you are, North or South. The rural counties in the Midwest are just as conservative as the South, but the large urban areas like Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and Columbus swing the northern states Democratic.

The reason the South has had so much disproportionate influence over the government is because of the way the Senate is configured, with each state getting the same representation - 2 Senators - regardless of population.

Some of the strongest Democrats you will ever meet are from the South. The South, thanks to Dean's 50 state strategy, is trending Democratic.

[southernyankeebelle]

28. Gee Woow

I live in TN and it couldn't have happened to a better group of people. TN needs to come out of their racist thinking. Am white and voted for Obama. The young seem to be better judge of their future then their old parents and grandparents. I am not originally from here. But I do see alot of fear from these people. They don't trust anyone that aren't lily white. They are good people but need to change. I hope now they start realizing things won't change here unless they move into the 21st century.

[MasonJar]

39. Perhaps real good for the South will arise from this situation; it almost

happened here in Kentucky where we almost defeated the scumbag Mitch McConnell this time around. True, we did not, but the race was his closest challenge ever. In addition, the dem running against McConnell has his own problems and is not especially popular. If the GOPers ruling the South lose influence, maybe we can finally turn this around and defeat them.

[acmavm]

40. Regardless of what the author 'meant' by the South, it would have been

far better if he would have kept it to himself.

Shit, we only won the White House the year because of help from some 'unlikely' and wonderfully surprising sources. The 'South' was certainly one. (Amazingly so was the one electoral vote from Nebraska.) We don't need this shit. WE DO NOT NEED to piss off the very people who we told that we were honest, fair, and trustworthy. That we were/are ALL in this together.

That is ignorant.

[TankLV]

41. Yes - and it will be a GOOD thing...!

And I for one, will be DAMN HAPPY not to hear another fucking hillbilly SOUTHERN/TEXAS accent in our national leadership for the FIRST TIME IN OVER THIRTY YEARS!!!

It will be a "breath of fresh air"...

OK - who let "him" in here?!?!

Shoo!

Get away!

Now that I've traveled to many places in this great big wonderful country of our, it's SOOOO easy to have generalizations and misconceptions about OTHER people and OTHER places, until they all become "US" and "OUR" places.

Everywhere I've stayed and visited, there have been an overwhelming majority of people who are people I would be proud to know and have come to LOVE and miss...

I wish I could be free enough, and have multiple realities, to live in Clarksville, Tennesee and Lake Charles, Louisiana - at the time, if I could, I would have just happily stayed the rest of the life I have left there...

And those are just two of the latest places that I've had the fortune to be...

It's too easy to go with the negativity and familiarity over the rational and intelligent...