Why are we bailing out Corporations that Outsource our Jobs?

[Phred42]

Repatriating American JOBS MUST be made a requirement and condition for taking Taxpayer money.


And Screw them - make that Retroactive

Not talking about the Auto Industry here - talking about call centers....IT....

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Which ones are we bailing out that outsource jobs? That's monstrous nt

[Phred42]

2. Not talking about the Auto Industry - talking about Wall street

Call Centers - IT - etc.

Didn't make that clear

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Oh so true. I guess the economic system is designed that way and if they fall, so do we? nt

[navarth]

5. Phred42 is, I believe, referring to globalization in general

our Detroit big 3, the big finance companies, they've all outsourced jobs. And addressing that, indeed even making it retroactive, sounds very fair to me. Keep the jobs here. And bring back those jobs already outsourced.

Is that practical? I'm sure it's debatable. But if they want our tax dollars, we should have a say.

Don't get me wrong here: I'm totally in favor of helping out the Big 3. Being a Detroiter, I have a stake in that. But I think there should be conditions. No question.

The workers are less to blame than the people at the top in my opinion. Not that I'm completely exonerating the workers, there is fault on all sides.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. I had no idea Detroit had outsourced jobs. Well, Obama PROMISED that he would....

provide tax incentives to any American corporation that manufactures in the U.S., and none to those that manufacture elsewhere. I agree with that. Make it expensive for them to manufacture abroad.

[navarth]

9. agreed

Sorry to say, a lot of auto content comes from Mexico, Canada...I don't have all the info readily at hand but I believe that's the case.

And a lot of union busting happens when marauding right-to-work states use their own style of government subsidy to attract jobs from union states.

This thread is a good one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4523078

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. Thank you. I had no idea. I hope in Obama we have a man who tries to do the right and honest thing

My feeling is that if a corporation has to cheat to function, it ought to close down shop and never open up again.

I think one of the biggest problems with corporations is that it allows ordinary corrupt human beings to hide behind a legal construct that shields them from being individually sued and forced to pay damages.

When THAT is corrected somehow and corporations are sued along with the folks who own/manage them, corporations will behave VERY nicely.

[bvar22]

14. Tax Breaks will NEVER be able to compete with....

...Slave Labor and no Environmental Standards if a Corporation is looking to increase profits.

The only people the Tax Breaks will benefit are those Corporations who don't already outsource due to logistics.

[BrklynLiberal]

13. CitiGroup.

[msongs]

3. corporate masters get what they want first, congresspersons get theirs second. nt

[Azlady]

6. Kick & Recommend

I hope this is yet another on the already long list for Obama on 1.20.09 to FIX and STOP!

[Thickasabrick]

8. So they can stay in business and then we will stick them with extra

taxes unless they "insource" the jobs back here.

[Joe Chi Minh]

11. A letter in today's UK Daily Mail about Labour PM Kevin Rudd's Land of Oz:

WHY does Gordon Brown never mention Australia when he compares how different economies are coping with the credit crunch and the global recession? Australia's response was simple.

On October 15, we received an email from family in Oz telling us that it had just been announced tha half the budget surplus of A$22 billion dollars would be given away to help vulnerable groups - pensioners, families with young children and new homebuyers - through these bad times. It was hoped they would spend the money and give the economy a boost and help retailers have a good Christmas.

In addition, all savings in banks, building soiceties and credit unions were guaranteed up to a maximum of A$100,000. Does Brown fear metioning Australia might draw attention to the fact that don't have a budget surplus to disperse?"

I'm sure all sorts of technical reasons could and would be adduced for dismissing the comparison with economic situations of Oz and the UK, and the responses of our respective PMs, as "apples and oranges", but who could doubt that if there were an exact correspondence throughout, endless excuses would still be trotted out by our government?

If our manufacturing industry had not been decimated in favour of our financial-sector spivs, it's difficult to imagine that the latter would not have been so empowered to destroy our economy, and the former's contribution to our balance of payments would have it look all together more attractive.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. CitiGrouop is hiring 1000 people inthe Philipines...after getting a total of $45B

bailout, and laying off 53,000 people. Certainly not a policy that I agree with.

[Phred42]

15. My point

[lib2DaBone]

16. Employment Arbitrage.....

The Big Corporations pit the poor countries against America. They pocket the difference in the labor cost but do not pass it on to consumers.

Meanwhile.. Americans flock to Wal-Mart to buy Chinese Junk for Christmas.. spending the last dollars they have to support the off-shoring of their livelihood.

Wouldn't it be easier if Americans just put a gun to their heads and ended it all?

[OhioChick]

17. Good Question, Phred.

India's Tata Wins Big Citi Outsourcing Deal

India's Tata Wins Big Citi Outsourcing Deal
TCS acquires Citigroup Global Services—and bags a giant contract to provide outsourcing services to Citi for the next nine-and-a-half years

by Nandini Lakshman

"It's festival time in India, and Tata Consultancy Services, the country's largest IT software and services provider, is celebrating with gusto. After months of speculation, TCS acquired Citigroup's (C) India-based outsourcing unit, Citigroup Global Services, for $505 million in an all-cash deal announced on Oct. 8. That's the largest-ever purchase for TCS. What's more, the company bagged a $2.5 billion contract to provide process outsourcing services, application development, and infrastructure support to Citigroup and its affiliates over nine-and-a-half years. "This transaction will complement our domain expertise and bring new capabilities to TCS that will help drive growth," says S. Ramadorai, chief executive officer of TCS."
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2008/gb20081010_639548.htm

Article courtesy of "blue97keet."

This shit has to stop NOW. :mad:

[Jim Sagle]

19. Say Tata to your job.

[MJJP21]

18. Outsourcing jobs

should mean no bailout unless a commitment to maintain the present workforce at present levels for x amount of years and more if they create more jobs here. Otherwise get the countries they locate in to chip in as well.

[AZ Criminal JD]

20. Why aren't you talking about the auto industry?

Why are they exempt? They have outsourced jobs all over the place.

[OhioChick]

21. You're right.....

We're ALL getting hit by outsourcing...white collar and blue collar. The tech industry has been badly hit and the Big 3 outsource their tech jobs and cars are asssembled in Canada and Mexico.

I've posted about both of these issues for some time..

Chrysler tech center workers may have lost jobs to H-1B contractors, union claims

Automaker says visa holders aren't doing work previously done by laid-off union members

February 15, 2008 (Computerworld) Karen Trevaski worked at Chrylser LLC's technical center in Auburn Hills, Mich., until she was laid off two weeks ago along with 119 other employees. But Trevaski claims that foreign workers with H-1B visas remain on the job at Chrysler, using software systems similar to the one she used to design automotive parts.

Moreover, Trevaski believes that the H-1B workers were encouraged to learn a new version of Dassault Systèmes SA's Catia software, while she was not. "We had to fight to get V5 training," Trevaski said this week. "And the H-1B workers — they were just sending them for the training. That's why I'm angry — it's just totally wrong. It seems as if they just want to get rid of union people."

United Auto Workers Local 412, which represents the laid-off tech workers, is considering whether it should file a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board, according to Walt Atkins, the local's first vice president.

"Why," Atkins asked, "have they got these people over here from another country, taking up American jobs, and laying off American workers?" He said that there may be as many as 150 H-1B visa holders working for contractors in the technical center at Chrysler.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9063099&intsrc=hm_list

[Phred42]

22. Ok - you're right

[Recursion]

24. Ironically, Japanese automakers operating in the US...

...on the whole have better labor relations than the Big 3. Why not just invite Toyota and Honda to come open up a lot more factories here?

[Recursion]

23. Because gas prices are too high to light ourselves on fire NT

[oceanman]

25. Return of our jobs

I'm sort of a newbie here, though I've been viewing the site for years and even posted a bit several years ago, but one of my major issues has always been outsourcing and sending jobs overseas. It didn't take a genius to realize that doing so would result in the emasculating of the middle-class, i.e. the consumer class. The short-sightedness in this policy is breathtaking. Somewhere along the way the emphasis became short-term profits versus long-term success. My memory is probably suspect, but back in the 70s & 80s a 5-10% gain for a company was a good thing, and had been for a long time. Keep your holdings, collect the dividends and grow your portfolio. The holdings I inherited from from elder relatives were all of this nature. The DOW seemed to always stay between 2000-3000 and all was well. I also remember the articles back in the 80s where the corporate elite were pissing and moaning about their salaries versus those of movie and sports stars. They felt abused - which leads us in some form to today, where some of the cost cutting results in more bloated salaries of the corporate elites and generally results in the employees getting screwed via outsourcing. I'm digressing - I totally agree with Phred42 - "repatriating American JOBS MUST be made a requirement and condition for taking taxpayer money. And Screw them - make that Retroactive." Re-invigorating the working class has to be part and parcel as part of any recovery program. Sorry, but paying some poor slob $.50 an hour in Mexico or China still does not create a consumer class for your products. Any if there is any justice economically, they would reach pay levels equating ours - assuming we have jobs. Sweat shops in any country have no place anywhere in this world. "The idea that general prosperity is best for individual welfare. John F. Kennedy repeatedly sounded the optimistic note that good times would be beneficial to all. In his June 1963 address in Frankfort, Kennedy said, 'As they say on my own Cape Cod, a rising tide lifts all the boats..'". How much of this countries lead in technology and science has been frittered away in the name of 'reducing costs'? And Walmart needs to go away - one of, if not the biggest corporate criminal in this country, apparently unaffected by the current crisis, but the business 'philosophy' certainly one of many root causes. Excuse me- rambling due alcohol.