Study: Immigrants make tech jobs, not take them

[getthefacts]

I thought this was interesting take on Hb1s. Comments?


US lawmakers may be seeking to restrict entry of skilled foreign workers to save jobs of their citizens, but a new research shows that firms founded by immigrants from places like India are creating thousands of jobs every year in the country. In a new study, researchers from Duke University, along with the University of California-Berkeley, and the Kauffman Foundation, showed that Skilled, Educated Immigrants Contribute Significantly to U.S. Economy and that 25.3 pc US tech firms started by immigrants.

Almost 26 percent of all immigrant-founded companies in the past 10 years were founded by Indian immigrants. Immigrants from the United Kingdom, China and Taiwan contributed to 7.1 percent, 6.9 percent and 5.8 percent of all immigrant-founded businesses, respectively.

http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/02/16/study-immigrants-make-tech-jobs-not-take-them


AND

One-fourth US tech firms started by Indians, other foreigners


15 Feb 2009, 1930 hrs IST, PTI


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NEW YORK: The US lawmakers may be seeking to restrict entry of skilled foreign workers to save jobs of their citizens, but a new research shows that Nine trends for IT in 2009
Cities that are IT hubs
Technology Watch
Bangalore: India's best IT spot
firms founded by immigrants from places like India are creating thousands of jobs every year in the country.

The research, conducted by professors of Duke University and the University of California, also shows that an immigrant figures among the founders of every fourth engineering and technology firm in the country

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/One-fourth_US_tech_firms_started_by_Indians/articleshow/4131930.cms

[hendo]

1. K&R

I don't expect this thread to be very popular here though.

[havocmom]

2. perhaps owing to all the unemployed tech types with time to reply?

[Skittles]

18. you're an idiot

[sandnsea]

3. Because our corporations invested in India

instead of the US, so their kids are educated in the technologies of the future while ours are waiting to work on a factory line in Detroit - could that be it?

[rocktots]

5. Did M$ write the article??

The problem is you probably need 1000 'immigrants' to get 1 high tech company, so it is probably worse in the long run. They want the cheap labor, thats what the world is about.


You are not getting 'Free' health insurance, if you were, Obama would never have gotten in.

Start being CRITICAL of the nonsense, and ask yourself this question: What can I (YOU) do that some guy in India, China, or Mexico NOT do.

Answer: NOTHING

So your 'freedom', military, lifestyle, is being safeguarded by who? Your getting in the WAY of 'cheap labor'.

Who is going to buy anything is the big question. No-one,

So if we are not going to be a consumer driven economy, then exactly WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE?

Troublemaker? Useful Idiot? Manure?

[hendo]

17. YEs, lets close off all borders

lets be totally isolationist.

We are all descendants of immigrants, get over yourself. Everyone who wants it has a right to the American dream. Your post almost reads like it was written by Tom Tancredo.

[Oregone]

4. So? Skill, Educated Immigrants create jobs...

What is surprising about that? Immigrants always have ample opportunity to create jobs, and are normally the cream of the crop from their respective countries.

But it is important to note there is a big difference between the terms "Immigrant" and "worker" (especially regarding H1-B). Im not sure if this study is muddling those terms on purpose to support a certain agenda. An immigrant is an American looking for a future. A temporary worker is someone taking a job at a lower cost and shuttling the money overseas.

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. Good observation. "Immigrant" and "worker" are used interchangeably. n/t

[getthefacts]

9. But unless you married a citizen

most immigrant come to this country on a temporary visa and then apply for residency. That is the way the system is setup.

[Oregone]

11. But look here....

Those aren't immigrants officially. Those are workers. This study cites Skilled Immigrants as starting jobs. Are they talking about H1-B holders, or merely talking about official immigrants who have already been granted residency in America? If so, its a big difference.

My problem here is that this is being used to support H1-B activity, but the stat may have nothing to do with that subsection of the population.

On Edit: If you look at http://www.pratt.duke.edu/news/?id=829, it appears they are referring to actual immigrants.

[getthefacts]

10. This is a fallacy

In Massachusetts, for instance, there are sprawling Indian communities due to the local bio tech industry. These people are buying homes, cars, educating their kids here. They are not sending their money overseas. And although I don't have hard numbers, I would bet most of them came through the H1B program.

[Oregone]

12. "I would bet most of them came through the H1B program"

And thats an assumption...

You are taking data from a study and extrapolating from it to impossible reaches. From this study, you don't know at all if H1-B holders have a positive or negative contribution to the US economy and domestic job growth. Why? This study is not about H1-B holders whatsoever.

This study also doesn't cite: are the jobs well paying? do they employ Americans at an average rate? do they cause a net domestic job gain or loss from employing foreign workers? Are they involved in outsourcing jobs overseas? etc....

[getthefacts]

14. You are right

we can't extrapolate this to discuss any benefits of the H1b program to country.
But what I frequently see in these forums, and it scares the hell out of me, is the right wing rhetoric blaming immigrants for the economic maladies of the US, specially in the H1bs themed postings.

[Oregone]

16. It may be irrational rhetoric to some respect...

But as a degreed Comp Sci graduate from a top US institution and a business founder, I find it irrational that I could not find any reasonable paying entry-level position in years of searching, yet H1-B visas holders can (maybe they aren't hung up on the pay scale coming out of college, like I am--who knows).

I am a big fan of immigration, as it is done through a skilled worker process, but allowing people to subvert it (with H1-Bs) and stand in an already over saturated job market, again, seems irrational to me. We have people here willing, able, degreed, and trained to take any of these jobs, so I am not sure why we are looking elsewhere for workers unless its an economics issue.

The way I see it, if someone is willing to engage in the immigration process and qualify, all the better, as they will probably make outstanding contributions to the economy. Obviously, that isn't the benchmark for letting people into the US though.

BTW, Im a skilled worker immigrant myself (to another country). It was hell getting through the process, but I can see how it ensures immigrants are quality workers who will contribute.

[Juche]

6. That is the purpose of the H1B program, but that isn't what it is used for

The purpose was to find the most talented people on earth and offer them citizenship if they come here, study and try to start a company or make some patents.

However in practice the H1B visa program is often used to crowd out US workers because H1B workers will work for less pay and the employer has more power over him/her, as they can deport them for disobedience. What employer wouldn't want cheaper employees who are dependent on you for citizenship?

So I'm fine with the H1B visa program as a way to attract talent, but that isn't what it gets used for much of the time. Alot of the program is used to drive down wages and make workforces more submissive.

Things like this are what people are upset about:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1967955.cms

Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) vice president Phiroz Vandrevala even admitted that his company enjoys a competitive advantage because of its extensive use of foreign workers in the United States on H-1B and L-1 visas according to the study by IEEE-USA, a unit of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc.

"Our wage per employee is 20-25 per cent less than US wages for a similar employee," Vandrevala said.

"Typically, for a TCS employee with five years experience, the annual cost to the company is $60,000-70,000, while a local American employee might cost $80,000-100,000.

"H-1B employees are being taken advantage of, and some US workers' salaries are likely suppressed by the influx of thousands of additional job competitors. The wage problem is one symptom of how deeply flawed the H-1B programme is.".............Immigrant engineers with H-1B visas may be earning up to 23 per cent less on an average than American engineers with similar jobs, according to documents filed with the US Department of Labor (DOL). Salary data from Labor Condition Applications (LCAs) lends credence to arguments that lower compensation paid to H-1B workers suppresses the wages of other electronics professionals.

http://employeerightswisconsin.com/2008/11/26/will-i-be-deported-if-i-complain-against-my-h-1b-employer/

You know your employer is violating the law. Perhaps, he has benched you with no pay; is paying you less than the required wage; has you sending out resumes instead of writing a computer program.

So why do H-1B employees put up with this situation?

One of the main reasons an H-1B employee tolerates exploitation rather than filing a complaint against the employer is fear of being deported.

Displace US workers with immigrants who get paid less and who the employer can more easily threaten (employers can't threaten to deport a US worker, but they can with H1B visa workers). I'm not mad at the immigrants (they are just trying to make a living), I am mad at the corporations that are trying to abuse the H1B visa program.

[DJ13]

8. Skilled "americans" create just as many jobs as immigrants

Isnt it time we took care of our own first?

[OhioChick]

15. Damn straight.

Enough of the corporate hype.

It's time for the U.S. to take care of their own, as India is......instead of taking care of CEO's salaries.

India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/Expatriate_executives_making_way_for_local_hires/articleshow/4039529.cms

[Fovea]

13. Cane toads

were more effective at controlling some pests in Austrailia at first too.

Now they are a menace.

This is the sort of article that can only be floated among a population without any critical thinking skills.
Thanks for posting it, but it is on its face, absurd.

[Jim Sagle]

19. Whadda buncha shit.

[quickesst]

20. It's funny.....

....how the tone changes when the "brown people" are educated and threatening the jobs of "real" Americans. A little different from the accusations of racism many endure when the jobs are of the blue collar kind, and I mean angry, capital letter screaming at the "racist motherfuckers" just because they're brown people. Very difficult for me to muster any sympathy because the ivory towers are not as safe and secure as many thought they were. Welcome to reality. Thanks.
quickesst