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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 11:58 AM
Original message
Fox News "War Games" the Coming Civil War
Published on Sunday, February 22, 2009 by Salon.com
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/02/22-5

Fox News "War Games" the Coming Civil War

by Glenn Greenwald


Bill Clinton's election in 1992 gave rise to the American "militia movement": hordes of overwhelmingly white, middle-aged men from suburban and rural areas who convinced themselves they were defending the American way of life from the "liberals" and "leftists" running the country by dressing up in military costumes on weekends, wobbling around together with guns, and play-acting the role of patriot-warriors. Those theater groups -- the cultural precursor to George Bush's prancing 2003 performance dressed in a fighter pilot outfit on Mission Accomplished Day -- spawned the decade of the so-called "Angry White Male," the movement behind the 1994 takeover of the U.S. Congress by Newt Gingrich and his band of federal-government-cursing, play-acting-tough-guy, pseudo-revolutionaries.

What was most remarkable about this allegedly "anti-government" movement was that -- with some isolated and principled exceptions -- it completely vanished upon the election of Republican George Bush, and it stayed invisible even as Bush presided over the most extreme and invasive expansion of federal government power in memory. Even as Bush seized and used all of the powers which that movement claimed in the 1990s to find so tyrannical and unconstitutional -- limitless, unchecked surveillance activities, detention powers with no oversight, expanding federal police powers, secret prison camps, even massively exploding and debt-financed domestic spending -- they meekly submitted to all of it, even enthusiastically cheered it all on.

They're the same people who embraced and justified full-scale, impenetrable federal government secrecy and comprehensive domestic spying databases conducted in the dark and against the law when perpetrated by a Republican President -- but have spent the last week flamboyantly pretending to be scandalized and outraged by the snooping which Bill Moyers did 45 years ago (literally) as part of a Democratic administration. They're the people who relentlessly opposed and impugned Clinton's military deployments and then turned around and insisted that only those who are anti-American would question or oppose Bush's decision to start wars.

They're the same people who believed that Bill Clinton's use of the FISA court to obtain warrants to eavesdrop on Americans was a grave threat to liberty, but believed that George Bush's warrantless eavesdropping on Americans in violation of the law was a profound defense of freedom. In sum, they dressed up in warrior clothing to fight against Bill Clinton's supposed tyranny, and then underwent a major costume change on January 20, 2001, thereafter dressing up in cheerleader costumes to glorify George Bush's far more extreme acquisitions of federal power.

In doing so, they revealed themselves as motivated by no ideological principles or political values of any kind. It was a purely tribalistic movement motivated by fear of losing its cultural and demographic supremacy. In that sense -- the only sense that mattered -- George Bush was one of them, even though, with his actions, he did everything they long claimed to fear and despise. Nonetheless, his mere occupancy of the White House was sufficient to pacify them and convert them almost overnight from limited-government militants into foot soldiers supporting the endless expansion of federal government power.

But now, only four weeks into the presidency of Barack Obama, they are back -- angrier and more chest-beating than ever. Actually, the mere threat of an Obama presidency was enough to revitalize them from their eight-year slumber, awaken them from their camouflaged, well-armed suburban caves. The disturbingly ugly atmosphere that marked virtually every Sarah Palin rally had its roots in this cultural resentment, which is why her fear-mongering cultural warnings about his exotic, threatening otherness -- he's a Muslim-loving, Terrorist-embracing, Rev.-Wright-following Marxist: who is the real Barack Obama? -- resonated so stingingly with the rabid lynch mobs that cheered her on.

With Obama now actually in the Oval Office -- and a financial crisis in full force that is generating the exact type of widespread, intense anxiety that typically inflames these cultural resentments -- their mask is dropping, has dropped, and they've suddenly re-discovered their righteous "principles." The week-long CNBC Revolt of the Traders led by McCain voter Rick Santelli and the fledgling little Tea Party movement promoted by the Michelle Malkins of the world are obvious outgrowths of this 1990s mentality, now fortified by the most powerful fuel: deep economic fear. But as feisty and fire-breathing as those outbursts are, nothing can match -- for pure, illustrative derangement -- the discussion below from Glenn Beck's new Fox show this week, in which he and an array of ex-military and CIA guests ponder (and plot and plan) "war games" for the coming Civil War against Obama-led tyranny. It really has to be seen to be believed.

Before presenting that to you, a few caveats are in order: There is nothing inherently wrong or illegitimate with citizens expressing extreme anger towards the Government and the ruling political class. There isn't even anything wrong or illegitimate with citizens organizing themselves into a movement that -- whether by design or effect -- is threatening to entrenched elites. If anything, we've had too little of that. In fact, it's only a complete lack of fear of a meek, passive and impotent citizenry on the part of political and financial rulers -- a certainty that there will be no consequences no matter what they do -- that could have given rise to the endless corruption, deceit, lawbreaking, destruction, and outright thievery of the last eight years. A political and financial elite that perceives itself as invulnerable from threat or consequence will inevitably vest itself with more power and more riches. That's what we've had and, largely, still have.

But this Rush-Limbaugh/Fox-News/nationalistic movement isn't driven by anything noble or principled or even really anything political. If it were, they would have been extra angry and threatening and rebellious during the Bush years instead of complicit and meek and supportive to the point of cult-like adoration. Instead, they're just basically Republican dead-enders (at least what remains of the regional/extremist GOP), grounded in tribal allegiances that are fueled by their cultural, ethnic and religious identities and by perceived threats to past prerogatives -- now spiced with legitimate economic anxiety and an African-American President who, they were continuously warned for the last two years, is a Marxist, Terrorist-sympathizing black nationalist radical who wants to re-distribute their hard-earned money to welfare queens and illegal immigrants (and is now doing exactly that).

That's the context for this Glenn Beck "War Games" show on Fox News this week -- one promoted, with some mild and obligatory caveats, by Michelle Malkin's Hot Air. In the segment below, he convened a panel that includes former CIA officer Michael Scheuer and Ret. U.S. Army Sgt. Major Tim Strong. They discuss a coming "civil war" led by American "Bubba" militias -- Beck says he "believes we're on this road" -- and they contemplate whether the U.S. military would follow the President's orders to subdue civil unrest or would instead join with "the people" in defense of their Constitutional rights against the Government (they agree that the U.S. military would be with "the people"):


They don't seem very interested in bipartisanship and in transcending ideological divisions.


Immediately prior to that segment, Fox viewers were warned (as usual) that the unruly, uncivilized, violent Muslims are coming, and only Benjamin Netanyahu will be able to subdue them with a massive attack...


In one sense, all of this drooling rage is nothing more than the familiar face of extreme right-wing paranoia, as Richard Hofstadter famously described 45 years ago:


The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms—he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning the barricades of civilization. He constantly lives at a turning point. Like religious millenialists he expresses the anxiety of those who are living through the last days and he is sometimes disposed to set a date fort the apocalypse. (“Time is running out,” said Welch in 1951. “Evidence is piling up on many sides and from many sources that October 1952 is the fatal month when Stalin will attack.”)


But it's now inflamed by declining imperial power, genuine economic crises, an exotic Other occupying the White House, and potent technology harnessed by right-wing corporations such as Fox News to broadcast and disseminate it widely and continuously. At the very least, it's worth taking note of. And I wonder what would happen if MSNBC broadcast a similar discussion of leftists plotting and planning the imminent, violent Socialist Revolution against the U.S. Government.


- more at above link including FOX video -
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's the new RW mantra
some of the RW nutjobs I run into want that. The Red states must secede and they want a civil war. I really wonder if it was like this before The Civil War.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. The difference this time is that if the Red States decide to secede
I think we'll let them. The red states are a bunch of bloodsucking leeches, who take more from the Federal Government than they pay in as taxes. California, New York, and Pennsylvania subsidize Alabama, Mississippi, and South Carolina.

If the red states left, and the liberals in them moved to the blue, we'd be a lot better off.

The problem is, this time the secessionists don't actually want to secede, they would want to conquer and subjugate the blue states that are their sugar tit.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I figure you are exaggerating, but I feel I should respond anyway
It's the UNITED States and that's the way it's going to stay. Regionalism on the left is about as bad as right-wing kookery.
In Oklahoma, the reddest of all, 500,000 people voted for Obama. You think all those people and their families should leave, or could leave easily?

I wish all this type of hogwash would stop on DU.



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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I don't necessarily want division.
The post I replied to referred to the wackos as secessionists. I don't think they are. I think they're juntas-in-the-making.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Because our nation was colonized and subdivided by
the Kings and Queens of England, France, Spain and the Netherlands.

Later immigration primarily migrated toward pockets of their particular ethnicity.

Particularly before the Civil War, some sections of the nation grew faster and developed quicker than more isolated areas, this combined with climate difference and geography served to create different economic models, thus magnifying cultural differences.

All of those divisive factors coupled with the largely unifying effect of the Revolutionary War and the Founder's wisdom in being wary of too much concentrated power combined to create the foundation for the general psychology of E-Pluribus Unum, thereby expanding as a nation, a generally popular idea, would be easier to do in bite size chunks, as there were competing unifying and divisive dynamics at work.

Today I believe, the United States has been cooking on the stove longer forming a delicious stew. Due to the general growth in the nation after the Civil War combined with advances in transportation and communication, particularly instant, mass, two way communication, ie; the Internet, have created an additional unifying dynamic in eliminating regional psychological barriers and misunderstanding.

Regarding having 50 states, I still believe that's a great idea as this gives the nation far more flexibility in adapting to change, via experimentation with changes in the law on a small scale, while also offering people areas where they may be more comfortable with local laws and customs to their liking. While I share some of the Founders' concern about the federal government having too much power, I see an even greater threat, that coming from corporate/oligarch ownership of that government.

Regarding secession and or the promotion of secession from anyone on the right or left, I view that as a short sighted, asinine idea with no redeeming qualities. It would ultimately weaken both nations if successful and only create more wounds to the one nation, if it weren't. I also believe this is primarily promoted by people more concerned with their own lust for personal power than any belief in the general public good.






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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Why do you think America is divided ...
into 50 states, rather than united as one?
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
41. Look at the size of the US and then compare it to similar nations
Russia is very diverse and not particularly unified. As you move away from the west, the country loses its Russian-ness and become more like Asia. Many in the easy feel detached and 'bitter' at how the western portion treats them.
There is a divide between attitudes of the Arctic Russians in the northern-west and their Black Sea brethren in the south.

China has the same deep divisions. Much of it is masked by the lack of media exposure. To most westerners China pretty much stops when you get a few hundred miles from the coastal regions

Can't speak to Brazil since I've never been and have no relatives that have been either.
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tonycinla Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. ok!
Having long and deep roots in the South(GEORGIA,SO. CAROLINA,No. Florida)let me play devil's advocate on this.Many true white southerners would say keep your federal money ,most of it is going to black folks anyway and the indigenous white southerners will take care of ourselves.Read James Webb's book "Born Fighting" about our Scot Irish ancestors and you will find out who we are.We get some of our own money back in this supposed transfer of wealth from North to South.We work as hard or harder in our non union factories i.e. autos, as you do up north and get paid less money so we pay higher for goods coming out of the North due to your higher wages, benefits,regulations etc.than you pay for goods coming out of the South.So you are taxed more due to the graduated income tax and then some of that money is sent back down south .Perhaps a formula could be worked out that anyone ,white or black,who wanted to leave the New Confederacy would be paid to do so.I will guarantee you this ,the Southerners who stay will be just fine .Many of the deadbeats down here will move up there and you can take care of them.Thank You
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Pretty damn bizarre
Edited on Mon Feb-23-09 08:00 AM by olegramps
"Many true white southerners would say keep your federal money ,most of it is going to black folks anyway and the indigenous white southerners will take care of ourselves." But unfortunately it reflects too many people's thinking.

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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. I would happily let go of...
the South to your New Confederacy if it got rid of you "true white southerners" (aka. bigoted sacks of shit) once and for all. You are a scourge on our country and your time is around 100 years past. And don't hide behind this Scot Irish bullshit -- my Mom's family on her Dad's side are McBrayne's -- and we are as big a bunch of "homo-loving, commies" (thank you Sean!) as you will find. You -- and Jim Webb -- insult us when you lay bigotry on us as a group, instead of call it for what it is -- a personal defect of character.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. Scott-Irish here, from Ohio.
We are all over the country.
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. It is really incitement to riot, and is illegal and should be cause
of an FCC recall of the Fox use of the national informational media access.

It is a reckless use of the public trust to disturb the national peace with hyped and exaggerated stories.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Some Russian professor was thinking the US would do this by 2010...
He also thought Alaska would join Russia. Interesting and all-too-neat diagram of which states would belong where too...

And, like that guy, I see no reason to take FOX with a shred of seriousness either. DU's put up more than enough articles to incontrovertibly prove that.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is what happens when you believe in absolutely nothing
...you embrace the extreme to convince yourself you believe in something.
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. interesting...
yet so much revisionist history... sigh, After witnessing some of the events at the RNC convention in St. Paul. I have no doubt that our armed forces would fire on americans away without so much as batting an eye. They didn't refuse illegal orders in Iraq and they won't be patriots here.
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Many of these militant weekend warriors joined up with
outfits like Blackwater and spent the * years getting paid highly for doing what they love.
Abusing and shooting people they hate.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. I live in Georgia
and the would-be militiamen are coming out of the wood work. So weird. This article describes the phenomenon pretty well, particularly in terms of its lack of foundation in principles of any kind.

Trav
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Actually this is really being proposed by Glenn Beck and other talk show hosts.
I posted about this a couple of days ago when I heard people calling in to Beck's radio show and saying he was so "courageous" about speaking out about his revolution ideas. He had many people calling saying they were hording up on guns and they thought the time was coming when they would have to protect their property and that they felt there needed to be a revolution in the future.

Last night I caught a few minutes of Beck's Fox TV show where he was interviewing a couple of military strategists and he said he was surprised by their answers that the military wouldn't go against the government if they thought there was a "take over" by socialists ideas. I know a lot of DUers and other progressives think this is just "talk" but it is getting to be a movement that makes one wonder just where it may go in the future. It is not something to just stick your head under the covers and ignore!

As referenced in the quote from the Greenwald article:

"But now, only four weeks into the presidency of Barack Obama, they are back -- angrier and more chest-beating than ever. Actually, the mere threat of an Obama presidency was enough to revitalize them from their eight-year slumber, awaken them from their camouflaged, well-armed suburban caves. The disturbingly ugly atmosphere that marked virtually every Sarah Palin rally had its roots in this cultural resentment, which is why her fear-mongering cultural warnings about his exotic, threatening otherness -- he's a Muslim-loving, Terrorist-embracing, Rev.-Wright-following Marxist: who is the real Barack Obama? -- resonated so stingingly with the rabid lynch mobs that cheered her on."

.......

Let us hope that those with hate-filled messages will be brought down before they do any more harm!

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. We should get prepared.
I think they're too cowardly to actually do anything (especially armchair warriors like Beck and Limpballs and the rest of the hate radio gals) but it's best to be prepared. Should they start something, if we're prepared, they won't last a month. But don't make the mistake of thinking it "can't" happen.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I just hope that more people will take this seriously. I hate to see or hear hate filled crap!
I don't really know what will happen but I think something will as they will try to make a statement. There are a lot of loose cannon's out there right now! This BS that Beck and Limbaugh and others are spreading is beyond reason! I have no idea how they get away with it!
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. Remember Timothy McVeigh
He acted with a whole lot less incitement.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Reich wing will not give up.........
The brainwashing and scare tactics continue.

I have no idea how one fights this stuff.
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Stinger2 Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Just Keep Voting The Bums OUT Just one at a time !!!!!
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. They Still Own the Media
Edited on Sun Feb-22-09 01:50 PM by AndyTiedye


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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. With our corrupted election system? Good luck with that.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. You fight it by being prepared. By that I mean being prepared to fight for your life.
It's sad to say, but these people think they are the patriots and we are the terrorists. When the time comes they will begin waging war on those they view as UN-American. That's you and me PDJane.

Being nice to these people, trying to placate them, talking to them, will not work.

This is the incitement phase of the coming civil war. And if we are not ready to fight them on their own terms we will become their slaves. Or dead.

Buy weapons and ammunition. Learn how to use your weapons safely and to shoot accurately. Teach your family members the same.

Stock up on canned goods, water, fuel, and necessities that you will not be able to buy from the grocery store if some violent civil unrest occurs in your locale.

Pay attention to what's going on around you. If you live in an area that is infested by these terrorists be alert to any weird or unusual activities that might signal an upcoming "event".

This is serious business.

Remember that revolutions are started by small numbers of fanatical, dedicated individuals and groups who don't let being in the minority stop them.


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Hestia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Who are they going to know who to fight? If you drive a car with
a certain states license plate? If you aren't wearing some sort of armband? What? How are they going to 'know' which side each and everyone of us is on? In answer to the post about Jim Webb, Scots-Irish, etc. Tell you what - why do we have to leave the South and you get to stay? Huh? With 76% approval rating that Obama has right now, aren't you know in the minority and we are the majority? I think anyone who wants to start any type of civil skirmish is the one to leave. I love where I live and I will not be pushed out by a bunch of rednecks ignoramis'(sp?), you know? Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Hestia, I can't tell if you're berating me or being serious? You are kidding, right?
Do you have local government where you live? If so, there are likely Democrats and Republicans and even Independents serving. They actually get a lot of press, especially "liberals" in very Red States. Or you could go to State government to see who is who. Or, if all else fails, pick up a newspaper. Or go online to the local Democratic party website. Gettin' the idea.

The idea isn't to kill or imprison every single librul. It's to decapitate the leadership and intimidate the opposition. Very basic stuff.

I'm a Democrat in a very Democratic part of my state and I can tell you unequivocally that the liberals I know--and I know a lot of them--are not ready to deal with any type of violent assaults against them or their community. They have total (and, in my opinion, misplaced) trust in the police and the government to protect them.

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Hestia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. I was kidding, sorta. There is a forum that I visit that actually used to be very
cool, but the RW religious nuts have taken over and pretty much run everyone off. This forum is actively advocating a new revolution, so when they start talking that crap, I ask - who is whom? Is everyone to don a uniform in order to choose sides? See - it's the details that kill ya.

Living in a Democratic state way away from the state capitol, I don't have a clue as to who is whom. Living Southern, everyone drives a pickup truck. The Ford's vs the Chevy's/GMC's? Do the Honda's and Mitsubishi's get to declare Independent?

It's the RW radio that is stirring everyone up in declaring independence from something, but when you get down to details, no one has a clue.

Sorry, in a snarky mood...Obama was great thought wasn't he? Tough, level-headed, on message. If Jindal is all the RW has to through at us, I am predicting a 2012 landslide for Obama.


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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Funny he never mentioned this while Bush was pretzeldent
Edited on Sun Feb-22-09 01:04 PM by CLANG
(Glenn Beck that is)
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agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. For too long we've underestimated
the power of propaganda on the American psyche. The media hogs said Clinton was a traitor, they said W Bush was saving us when he grabbed power. These people should be called what they are: Right-Wing propaganda addicts. Just as a meth addict needs meth to function there is becoming a larger and larger class of white american males who wait for their fix of RW propaganda. Don't laugh, I work with people who are exactly like that.
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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hate radio flourished Rwanda and we all know the results
Hate radio and Fox news must be destroyed!
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. What a revolting experience!!...
I don't ever watch Fox News. I don't have cable and I assume Beck and the rest of these nutcases can be viewed there. My god!! Watching that clip made my stomach knot up. That breathless delivery, promoting the very thing he seems to fear the most...

I gotta say, my neighbor watches Fox News all the time and she's quite anxiety-ridden. Fearful of all sorts of things that aren't likely to happen. Now I can see why.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. Fox News has become the mouthpiece for domestic terrorists. n/t
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tooko13 Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. Honestly
I believe that they are so afraid that Obama's presidency will be successful they are willing to do anything to derail it. I don't so much worry about our military folks and their loyalties. I worry more about outfits like blackwater and what kind of trouble they can cause now that they are not occupied with making money in Iraq.
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. The hate mongers
in our midst,The boys and gals at hate hq,(fox/faux),Murdock (the mad) aussie,and his top guns,Billo,Beck,Shaun,and the rest of his hate brigade are intent on turning america into another nazi germany or south africa.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
28. great post thank you
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 11:58 AM
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31. I'm happy to have recommended this thread before it became too late.
Edited on Mon Feb-23-09 11:58 AM by Uncle Joe
Thanks for the thread, balantz.
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falcon97 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 12:40 PM
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33. "angrier and more chest-beating than ever"
He should have added, "and in smaller numbers with less influence." Perhaps I'm naive, but a lot more people are now willing to pull together to turn our country around.
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Dortiz Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 02:00 PM
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35. Fox should be watched closely
Their hatred for minorities, Obama and the poor make its hosts and guests want to to bad things.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 02:43 PM
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37. Excellent!
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 11:45 PM
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39. Wish fulfillment
They would like to see chaos, because then they would matter. They would amount to something, if only civilization were to end. Sheer lunacy, of course, but these are folks ill adapted to modernity.

Their mantra in the Middle east has been in favor of democracy, so long as it's not imposed in any of our allies that happen to be despotisms. They have lost a single election, and now we find democracy's not so important, and now the fantasies of violence come to the fore, revealing that these folks were never truly devoted to democratic government anyway, that their entire mindset has been antithetical to the entire course of human history since the enlightenment. How alien these creature are to the great American enterprise initiated by the revolutionary generation.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
43. I never understood the anti-Clinton
thing from these people. At a motorcycle bash years ago I noticed patches that said Clinton = traitor. I guess they bought into the "Clinton sold military secrets to the Chinese." idea. Or maybe it was his opposition to the VietNam War. That and Clinton is going to take our guns away, lol. It's pretty easy to understand their hatred of Obama. I mean, he is black, 'liberal' and HE is going to take our guns away.
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