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CrisisPapers Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:22 PM
Original message
"Shallow Throat": Is Obama Turning Into Bush Lite?
| Bernard Weiner |

Maybe this happens to you, too. You go away on vacation for a few months, come back and sort through your snail/email and back copies of magazines and 'net stories, only to find that a good share of the mail is third-class junk/spam and not all that much has changed in the news.

That's the way I feel these days. After pumping out about 300 essays since 9/11, recently I more or less took a three-month leave from publishing political analyses on the internet in order to reconnect with other aspects of my life, in particular to focus on three major creative projects: a new play (in February), a photo exhibit of new work (April), and a music concert based on my poetry (May).

Now I'm back, sort of, only to find that much of the political news remains the same as when I took my creative break: Obama is maintaining his high national approval ratings as he moves his agenda forward, the clueless Republicans continue as little more than the obstructionist Party of No. But some shiftings are beginning to happen in Washington that I don't fully understand.

So I arranged a meeting with Shallow Throat to see if the moderate Republican mole (who has been such a helpful source in the past*) could fill in the blanks in my knowledge while I was absent from the political scene for three months. We met at a noisy end-of-the-Metro-line cafe.

"So much of what President Obama is doing is right on track with the good things he promised to do during the campaign," I said, "so I am mystified why, in the past few months, he has moved away from other important positions he took as a candidate on a wide variety of subjects: canceling the promised release of more torture photos, defending CheneyBush's 'state secrets' positions in court, ratcheting up the war in Afghanistan big time, agreeing to 'military commissions' for show trials of terror suspects, keeping the murders of interrogated detainees out of the news, etc. etc. All of this caving to rightist positions makes him look like a typical political chameleon or, worse still, a hypocrite, or even worse, not much better than Bush Lite."

"I gather," said ST, "that you're talking about his willingness to give Bush and Cheney and the crew a total walk on their unconstitutional behavior and on their war-crimes. In effect, if my guess is correct, you and your liberal friends think on these issues he is selling out his principles and his base."

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT?

"Exactly," I replied. "The law is explicit: If you know of a felony (such as state-sponsored torture) and refuse to report it to the appropriate authorities for action, or impede investigations by covering up the facts, you can be charged as an accessory after the fact in those crimes -- domestically and in international courts. I still support Obama and the great bulk of what he's trying to do domestically, but I need to try to understand why on earth Obama is behaving this way. Hundreds of thousands of people have died as a
result of the lies, deceptions and illegal activities of the previous administration, and Obama, by doing nothing, is letting them all walk away from their crimes, setting a terrible precedent for more law-breaking by future presidents and their underlings."

"Well," said Shallow Throat, "since I'm not in the Obama Administration, I'm sure I know less than your Democrat friends in power. But I've got some reasonable speculations based on the scuttlebut I'm picking up and my own sense of how the Beltway operates.

"First of all, it's essential to realize that Obama is not an ideologue. He has ideals and goals, to be sure, but as you yourself wrote repeatedly during the campaign, he's mostly a pragmatist with some liberal leanings. As a realist, he knows there is a big difference between the nation at large, where he and his programs are massively popular, and the D.C. island, where his policies have to make their way through the dragons of special interests and win approval in a Congress beholden to those interests.

"Obama knows he can't do it all, can't fix the economy and everything else as well, in one fell swoop. He wants to get a few major initiatives enacted into law during these first two years -- health-care reform, for sure -- and he needs some Republican votes. So he's, in effect, trying to take national-security concerns out of the equation -- torture, war-crimes, terrorism, military tribunals, surveillance -- in order to smooth the way toward passage in Congress of his major agenda items. He isn't kidding when he says he doesn't want his first term to get bogged down by turning to time- and energy-consuming investigations into the nefarious crimes of Cheney/Bush-era.

"But Obama simply doesn't yet understand how things work in Washington. The partisan politics of any situation will always out -- starting with damaging leaks -- especially so in a situation where the opposition, in this case the Republicans, is looking for anything to drag Obama and the Democrats down. Hell, they've already announced their oppositon to his nominee to the Supreme Court and that person hasn't even been named yet! And they sure as hell are going after Obama and his proxies, or are trying to, on national-security issues."

HELPING OBAMA FAIL

"That's what I don't get," I said. "What can the Republicans hope to gain by playing this obstructionist game and by using the despised Dick Cheney as their spokesman? Surely, they read the polls. The American people are not buying the extreme politics they're selling. So why not make some alterations in their leadership and policies and move more toward the center?"

"You are so naive sometimes, Bernie," said Shallow Throat. "My party, still under the control of the extremist neanderthals, is buying time, bolstering their base, while waiting (and working) for Obama to fail. The leaders of the party, who enjoyed the perks of power for the past eight years, are not about to give them up without a fight. They still think their brand of 'pure' conservatism can climb back into power in the foreseeable future, maybe as early as 2010. So, the politics of destruction, of obstructionism, of moving to rename their opposition the 'Democrat Socialist Party,' for example.

"They're willing to take the hit for seeming foolish now, in the hope that when Obama stumbles and falls -- perhaps when the unemployment and credit situations are bad enough next year to cause a genuine Depression -- the public will lose its enchantment for the guy, and, with no other viable alternative out there on the horizon, the voters will turn back to the Republicans for stability and prosperity and 'tough love'. That's why the GOP leadership has no room under their restricted tent for us moderate conservatives. That clown at the head of our party, Michael Steele, says he welcomes everyone into the Republican Party, including us moderates, as long as we don't try to change it. That's the idiotic point of view of our GOP leaders these days. I'm embarrassed for our party everytime they open their mouths."

DEMOCRATS' CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD

"The other side of that issue," I said, "is that Obama is being pummeled by forces within his own party by Blue Dog Democrats and so-called 'moderate" Dem Senators and House members. If they all stood together against the Republicans, more could get done faster. But, regardless of what their personal motives and ambitions might be, they are effectively acting in concert with the Republicans in messing up Obama's momentum and policies, the result of which is that little of moment gets done. Yes, we can't."

"And," said Shallow Throat, taking a swig of a Dos Equis, "the result of this behavior by the likes of Bayh and Lieberman and Baucus and the rest in the Senate, and the Blue Dogs in the House, is to join Limbaugh and Gingrich and Boehner and that baggage-laden crew in trying to ensure that Obama does not succeed with any major initiative. Reminds one of Will Rogers' famous statement: 'I'm not a member of any organized party. I'm a Democrat'."

"OK," I replied, "Let's suppose that you're right about Obama's motivation for pulling back on so many hot-button national-security issues in order to smooth the way to get his health-care reforms and other such legislation through Congress. What does such behavior bring him? It seems clear to me that no matter what Obama does in the way of intended mollification of the GOP, the Republicans, having no positive programs to offer, are going to attack him brutally anyway; he might as well fight for what he really believes in, yes?"

ST smiled. "Millions of you liberals went into the presidential campaign thinking you had a progressive or radical ally in Obama. You raised your expectations of him so high because you wanted to believe that at last, some real structural changes would be made once he got to the White House. I hope you now are coming to realize that Obama is in no way interested in upsetting the elite forces in place. Just look at his embrace and protection of the very financial institutions that took the economy into the toilet, and his acceptance of the neo-cons' American exceptionalist foreign/military policy.

"In short, Obama is no revolutionary, no anti-capitalist, no verbal bomb-thrower -- even if the far-right chooses to label him and his policies 'socialist' and 'nazi-like' and 'communistic' and so on (that's how desperate they are to find some awful epithet that will stick and drag him down). No, he's just a politician, one whose heart may be in the right place on a good many issues, but willing to sell out his grandmother (and his liberal base) if he has to in order to get a few decent pieces of legislation passed and another term in office."

FIGHT ON THE INSIDE OR GET OUT

"So what would you advise progressive Democrats and moderate Republicans to do?" I asked. "Neither one seems able to affect the course of their party's leaders. And so nothing much changes in America, and the forces in control of the status quo continue to prevail. Having lost a good share of their retirement funds, maybe even their jobs and homes, more people grow disenchanted about the possibility for meaningful change in this country, grow tired of the usual partisan games and corruptions. They drop out of the political process of democracy with a 'curse on both their houses' mentality. Anger, despair, frustration grow. Whether that translates into violent, proto-revolutionary opposition is unclear."

"I can speak to the moderate-Republican part of that question," said Shallow Throat. "From our point of view, our course must be to build up our alliances and forces and hope that the self-destruction of the GOP continues so that if the Republicans once again lose the national election in 2010, the extremists will be forced out and we can re-assume control of our party. Our moderate center-right policies, devoid of all the extremist rhetoric, will look attractive once more to a huge swatch of the American public -- independents, moderate former Democrats, conservative-but-not-crazy-conservative Republicans."

"But," I responded, "your plan only works if after yet another humiliating defeat at the polls in 2010, the GOP leaders either resign or are pushed out by you moderate conservatives. What if they simply continue to hold on and rule in their suicidal way?"

"I'd say if things don't change for the better after the midterm election in 2010, then we moderate Republicans will be in pretty much the same situation that you progressive Democrats might be in as well: disenchanted with your party leaders, that is to say Obama and Reed and Pelosi and Rahm catering to the powerful elites who benefit from the status quo and are not likely to make substantative changes to help out ordinary citizens.

"It might well be time for a mass withdrawal from the traditional two parties and the founding of a true and powerful big-tent populist third party, one that could attract a huge upswelling of support from a wide variety of sources from both left and right. If 2012 is the right time to run such an insurgent third-party candidacy, one with the real possibility of winning (or, at the least, picking up 35% or more of the vote), the time to start thinking seriously about such a prospect is fast approaching.

"But, for many, it's way too early to make any serious moves in that direction as both the moderates in the GOP and the progressives in the Democratic Party seem still willing to fight for dominancy and influence within their respective parties. Not until they are humiliatingly unsuccessful will they be open to the idea of jumping ship and planting the seeds for a grassroots campaign to create a viable third party.

"Until then, prepare for some victories and many distressing defeats." And with that, Shallow Throat left the cafe, leaving me with a hard pit in my stomach as I contemplated what I'd just heard.

-- BW

* To read earlier conversations with the Shallow Throat character, go here.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. The answer is no.
Thread over.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Of course that's the answer, but supporting Obama garners scant attention at DU.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. I support Obama asking that settlements stop being built in the west bank.
What else has he done lately that I should be supporting?

Or do you mean we should all constantly be saying we support him?

I've been doing a lot of organizing on the health care issue here in MT. Our Senior Senator is writing crappy legislation that mirrors the Obama plan which I always though was crappy from the start, but now it's even getting worse.

I haven't heard Obama say anthing on health care lately that I can support. So sue me. He had a bunch of health care industrial complex people over to the WHite House a week or so ago, and annouced some big 1.5% savings that they committed to. THen they screwed him and he didn't make a peep. Buit it wasn't that big a deal in the first place.

He spoke at a commencement, but i don't watch much TV and I'm not graduating. I support everyones right to be invited to speak.

So what else should I be supporting?

Oh, I support shutting Guantanimo, but hiding the photos won't work and is stupid, iMHO.

I don't support not prosecuting crimes. That's against the law, for crying out loud.

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Correct. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Are you calling me out?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. The answer is, he was ALWAYS Bush Lite. Thread goes on.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Can you provide one example?
I can't wait to hear what you come up with.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Gates and Geithner. That's two. With many more if you want them.
Edited on Tue May-19-09 02:36 PM by Jim Sagle
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. You said he has "always been Bush Lite"
So you probably need to name something he did (that Bush did too) before being elected President.

Keeping a few Bush admin officials is not the definition of Bush-lite. Remember "Team of Rivals"?

Bush-lite means that he's almost like Bush across the board. For instance if he were to continue torturing but cut the numbers in half, that would be Bush-lite. Instead he immediately repudiated BushCo's torture program and released the memos detailing exactly what BushCo did.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Memos are meaningless without prosecutions
Obama can repudiate torture all he wants, but if those responsible for torture get a pass, then in the eyes of the law, what they did is considered legal. And our nation takes a blow to the gut from the 2x4 of history.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Then stay tuned for the upcoming investigations.
Or continue to ignore reality.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. It's like that Follow the Pencil game in some of those "Brain Age" games
You can clearly see that the pencil will wind up on Goal 4, despite crossing junctions that land it on Goals 1-3 before that final junction puts it on target for Goal 4.

It's the same with torture. We can talk about investigations all we want, but if they do not lead to arrests and prosecutions, what's the use?
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troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. If Obama had released the photos, he would've tainted the jury pool & gotten war crimes MIS-trials
before they even started.

Thank CHRIST we have a president who is smarter than his party.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #30
40. there aren't going to be any prosecutions
If there's any investigation at all, it will be the usual Washington-style kabuki theater that we've already seen. YOU need to live in reality.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. I'd like to withdraw that "Bush Lite" and replace it with "Clinton 2.0" (see YOY's post below)..
Edited on Tue May-19-09 05:47 PM by Jim Sagle
Upon reflection, that's closer to my own assessment. Bernie is somewhat left of me so his view is somewhat harsher than mine.
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The Hope Mobile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
49. Then withheld the photos, refused to prosecute or thoroughly investigate
and then he started up "prolonged detention" as well as renewing military tribunals. This is all in just one of the many areas where he is looking like Bush lite.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-01-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. Quick point on the "Team Of Rivals".
Who are the strong progressives on the "Team Of Rivals" that are standing up to Geithner, Summers, etc.? I'll be very excited to hear about them!
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
41. Guantanamo staying open, abu garabe staying open, no withdrawal time lime for Iraq (still)
no formal renunciation of the signing statements that made *2 a dictator, flat out saying single payer is not an option, NOT encouraging the justice department to investigate vote fraud - by the gop, no investigations into voter suppression in the south, still pandering to Israel (but significantly less so, this is a lite thread), the TARP bill, STILL allocating monies to the rich bankers with little or no over sight, the Auto bail out cruelty, the fact that GM(?) is CLOSING US PLANTS TO OPEN FOREIGN ONES TO SAVE COSTS!!!!!!!, destroying the appellation mountains (recent decision), don't ask don't tell STILL ENFORCED, NOT working for gay equal rights, NOT investigating *co crimes agaisnt humanity

that is how he is * lite...

NOW.... how is he Clinton 2.0:
improved responsibility in budgeting, putting monies where they are needed - my friends on disability got a $250 check each, which has helped them a fair amount - at least WORKING on health care reform (I prefer a 2 tier system with single-payer kaiser-like health care for everyone, and one that you pay into), at least looking at reforming the credit cards so that they can't charge 50,000% if you fart the wrong way, saving the environment as far as ACTUALLY investing and looking into alt. energy sources, demanding energy efficient (not as high as he SHOULD demand, but oh well, demanding more electrical autos,...


He has done many great things, or at least he's promised to.

and i would add this...

HE'S ONLY BEEN IN OFFICE LESS THAN 130 DAYS!!!!!!!!!
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #22
44. so Omaba is bush lite jim? that's a mighty active imagination you have there.
:rofl:
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
48. And you're icon wasn't?
You can't be to the left of Bush and run a "white resentment" campaign.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. That was easy - and very correct.
Disenchanted Dems and REPUKES getting togther to form a third party?!!! Is he NUTS!

YES!

I'm more likely to join the COMMUNIST Party than to join with ANY fucking repukes...

It's way too early to decide it's all been a failure - I"m going to give him a year or two - but if Obama keeps on going about things in the WRONG direction IMO, then I will have to decide - but I'm never gonna like everything he does, and I smile a lot each day with what he HAS already done...THAT in itself is significant for me...
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bush Lite? No...more like Clinton 2.0.
and I'll take that any day over Bush or Bush lite.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Yes, he's very much like Bill Clinton, but has learned from Bubba's mistakes. Even the Hope campaign
Edited on Tue May-19-09 02:02 PM by Captain Hilts
was reminiscent of Clinton.

And, yes, I'll take that any day.

And the circular firing squad comment is spot on. Conservative DEMOCRATS were Bill Clinton's problem and they're the problem now.

It's not helpful to call Obama 'Bush lite', because he's not.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes - I Do Believe That Obama Has A Conservative Streak That Is starting To Shine
eom
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Too Bad
It didn't shine during the election.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yes - The Positive Message Of Hope Seems To Be Replaced By Corporatist Support And Rhetoric
What appeared to be a man of the people has become another shill for the system which means the corporations.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Because comparing him to his moral polar opposite is so much more effective.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I Don't Know What Point Is Being Made?
eom
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. The entire world is looking at Obama and wondering, "Is that George Bush?"
:eyes:
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. I am really tired of this shit
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Yeah
but at least make a counterargument -- you do have one -- don't you?
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. No.
Dennis Kucinich did not win the election. He did not even make a ripple.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. .
:eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. The comments in the "circular firing squad" part are spot on as far as I can tell

"The other side of that issue," I said, "is that Obama is being pummeled by forces within his own party by Blue Dog Democrats and so-called 'moderate" Dem Senators and House members. If they all stood together against the Republicans, more could get done faster. But, regardless of what their personal motives and ambitions might be, they are effectively acting in concert with the Republicans in messing up Obama's momentum and policies, the result of which is that little of moment gets done. Yes, we can't."

"And," said Shallow Throat, taking a swig of a Dos Equis, "the result of this behavior by the likes of Bayh and Lieberman and Baucus and the rest in the Senate, and the Blue Dogs in the House, is to join Limbaugh and Gingrich and Boehner and that baggage-laden crew in trying to ensure that Obama does not succeed with any major initiative. Reminds one of Will Rogers' famous statement: 'I'm not a member of any organized party. I'm a Democrat'."


Puts the focus exactly where I think it should be - on Democrats who act like Republicans and doom any efforts to pass a truly Democratic agenda. They basically are shoving bi-partisanship down their own Party Leader and President's throat.

That is actually a very well-written and constructed article worth the perusal of anyone on this board. The author comes far more to Obama's defense than to "bash" him.

Interesting how quick people are to jump to conclusions before they even READ what they are commenting on. Just a hint: someone could conceivably post - Is Mother Theresa Turning Into Britney Spears? and if you in fact read the article it may turn out that Mother Theresa is NOT turning into Britney Spears.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Or maybe Obama agrees more with the moderates and it's the
Edited on Tue May-19-09 02:02 PM by SIMPLYB1980
far left that is actually mucking things up right now.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. The so-called "moderates" are the Lieberman Bayh wing and I
Edited on Tue May-19-09 02:38 PM by Phoebe Loosinhouse
think they are fewer in number than the mainstream and "far left"(as you say) Democrats. Obama did not run as a Lieberman/Bayh type of Democrat, so if he really does agree with them more, he would be a really big hypocrite after the campaign that he ran. I hope you don't think that of him. I don't.

on edit - how is the "far left" mucking things up now?

on edit - added "Lieberman/Bayh" to second sentence.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Bzzzt.. Lieberman is NOT a moderate Democrat
He's an independent Conservative who caucuses with the majority.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yes, I know that. But he retained all his Dem seniority and his committee chair
Edited on Tue May-19-09 02:36 PM by Phoebe Loosinhouse
(which I think is a disgrace after he campaigned for McCain). I was repeating the alliance mentioned in the article of "Lieberman/Bayh" type of self-described "moderate". (I edited that post to be clearer - thanks)
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-01-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
51. Wanting accountability, human rights, and health care for all
should never be called "far left".
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-01-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
50. You are pointing out a common fact about the reading/thinking skills of
people on this board. (And everywhere else on earth too)

I often look at the long tangles wherein one person is attacking the other, they respond with a counter atack, and on and on. And if you do the hard work of trying to see what the initial remarks were, both people are actually in AGREEMENT with each other, but they don't realize it.

Sort of like what goes on inside so many households. <sigh>
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. Compromising for the long term gain is sometimes misinterpeted
Obama is PRICELESS...he is Cool Calm and Collected
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. Very interesting,
Thanks so much for this! I think Obama is walking a tight rope, still our eyes are open, but Bush-Lite? Gimme a break.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
34. I don't think there is anything "lite" about it. Obama is turning into Bush on too many issues.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
36. I know that when he first joined the Senate I was surprised at some
of his votes and comments. They seemed to lean DLC. I always thought that Hillary was to the left of Obama and I admit I wanted her to win. Then when Obama won, I supported him wholeheartedly, expecting him to be at least somewhat liberal. He spoke thus in the campaign, but I was also a little wary after his vote on the legislation which gave immunity to AT&T et al. I am pleased with most of his environmental policies (not the on removing the wolves for Endangered Species list), but I am skeptical of his health care proposal and if it does not contain a public option, I hope the House dems who warned him they would not support a bill with no public option will stick to their guns and sink the bill. Otherwise it is just another pro-corp piece of chichanery. I cannot believe he will not even select a Special Prosecutor. He is not like Bill Clinton. President Clinton allowed a Special Prosecutor to investigate himself when he had done nothing. Obama will not investigate horrendous crimes which have not only proof but confessions on the airwave. I was so hopeful and I am now so discouraged.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. Missed you...appreciate this thoughtful and timely post!
Edited on Tue May-19-09 08:10 PM by KoKo
Wish you well on your other projects...it's good to have "another life" in these trying times. Getting away helps one restore perspective... Many of us could sure use that break these days...also and we must make time for it.

:thumbsup:
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
42. morning kick
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
43. Political capital
Obama has a good bit but not nearly enough to greatly alter the system that so dearly needs a massive alteration.

If he makes it through this term with a great increase then he can spend it four years from now. Think of it as a bank account building up.

Right now he is allowing the hawks a lot of leeway and methinks he knows they will hang themselves in due time. And given that most of America is quite hawkish he's reserving his political capital by not fighting the majority.

Too, spending on herding cats is a foolish endeavor, either they herd themselves or we continue off the cliff.

Political capital spending is best done with great forethought and wisdom, especially when there is a limited amount.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
45. NO. sorry, i didnt read all that but he is not turning into bush. Much in the same way that bill
clinton is not a republican

we can disagree about our politicians, but when we get a real republican the difference is very real
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Riverman Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
46. Excellent Analysis! My sense is that if Obama is to prevail it is only if
he continues to get out of DC frequently, and stands with the interests of the people who elected him, which by recent polling analysis included a very broad swath of the American population who voted. Not the narrow interests of corporations, Wall Street and DC insiders - seemingly whom he more often than not has stodd with in his first four months in office.

Lincoln was forced to pay attention to the abolishonists who did not accept Abe's early disinclination to free the slaves. Their beliefs in the rightousness and moral stand against enslaving human being for the sake of provate profit and persistant insistance by their actions that the federal government must act to end the horror of slavery, forced Lincoln to act.

Same with Roosevelt who intially resisted implementation of the many reforms credited to his administration. It was the army veterns, the hungary, the unemployed, the union activist, the women fighting to end child labor horrors that finally forced FDR to act.

Same will be true with President Barrack Obama! Whatever the political calculus that drives his actions or inactions, we cannot be discouraged. He is after all a politician - a smart and in more ways than any before him, a long-awaited and welcome one, but a politician, no less or more. He must be moved by the people who elected him - if he wants any measure of success and a second term!

We must continue to push and insist that torture is never allowed; that war criminals must be investigated, prosecuted, convicted and punished; that banks, insurance companies and lobbyists cannot be handed the treasury - its our money; that medical treatment must be made available to all citizens when needed; that schools must fully funded; and coruption of any kind in the federal government (especially war contracting) must be rooted out and punished. To name just a few Changes that We Can Believe In - Oh Yes We Can!
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
47. Short answer: No
Long answer: Hell F*cking No
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