The Vietnam Analogy - Krugman Hits Hard with the facts

[burythehatchet]

This fiscal chicanery is part of a larger pattern. Vietnam shook the nation's confidence not just because we lost, but because our leaders didn't tell us the truth. Last September Gen. Anthony Zinni spoke of "Vietnam, where we heard the garbage and the lies," and asked his audience of military officers, "Is it happening again?" Sure enough, the parallels are proliferating. Gulf of Tonkin attack, meet nonexistent W.M.D. and Al Qaeda links. "Hearts and minds," meet "welcome us as liberators." "Light at the end of the tunnel," meet "turned the corner." Vietnamization, meet the new Iraqi Army.



Some say that Iraq isn't Vietnam because we've come to bring democracy, not to support a corrupt regime. But idealistic talk is cheap. In Vietnam, U.S. officials never said, "We're supporting a corrupt regime." They said they were defending democracy. The rest of the world, and the Iraqis themselves, will believe in America's idealistic intentions if and when they see a legitimate, noncorrupt Iraqi government — as opposed to, say, a rigged election that puts Ahmad Chalabi in charge.



If we aren't promoting democracy in Iraq, what are we doing? Many of the more moderate supporters of the war have already reached the stage of quagmire logic: they no longer have high hopes for what we may accomplish, but they fear the consequences if we leave. The irony is painful. One of the real motives for the invasion of Iraq was to give the world a demonstration of American power. It's a measure of how badly things have gone that now we're told we can't leave because that would be a demonstration of American weakness.




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[RamboLiberal]

1. Dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x45555

[SharonAnn]

2. Oooh, I think it definitely is like Vietnam. Especially the part

about our leader lying to us. The major difference in that is that * lies, and lies, and lies. I think LBJ lied less.

Another difference is that I really didn't think that LBJ was anxiously looking for an excuse to go to war. I know about the Gulf of Tonkin incident but I think he was probably stuck in Vietnam and thought this could help clean it up.

I do think Bush was anxiously waiting for a chance to go war and did everything he could to make it happen. I also think that * would have done it even without 9-11.

[countmyvote4real]

3. * would have done it even without 9-11

I totally agree with you SharonAnn.

[phantom power]

5. I'm amazed at how little we seem to have learned from VietNam

As you say, they lied then, and there's every indication they've been lying the last 3 years.

Yet some big fraction of our population is determined to believe that Bush or his cabinet would *never* do such a thing.

I mean, where does this certainty come from? It's not as if VietNam was so long ago. Most of those who lived thru it are still alive.

For god's sake, they haven't even changed the cast of characters. Wasn't Cheney an up-and-coming player during that period?

[Viking12]

4. Krugman Rocks!!

This guy is amazing. It's just so impressive that he can provide such accute insight into such a wide variety of issues.

[burythehatchet]

6. I would love to see him working with AAR

His mastery of the facts with Al Franken's presentation...wow

[teryang]

7. Both wars are essentially colonial in nature

In Vietnam we had more to work with. There was the old colonial civil service, the Catholics, and the French speaking landowning class. Their support enabled the war to go on for a protracted period. By contrast, we have no support at all in Iraq. We've completely destroyed the social infrastructure and have no sectors that support our presence.