Electrical engineers see job losses at record levels

[OhioChick]

IEEE-USA says engineering is a bellwether for recovery

July 7, 2009 04:40 PM ET

Computerworld - WASHINGTON -- The unemployment rate for electrical engineers reached 8.6% in the second quarter of this year, a record-setting number and double the unemployment rate for the group in the first quarter, according to the IEEE-USA.

The last time the unemployment rate of electrical engineers was anything close to this year's second quarter level was in 2003 when it reached 6.2%. By the following year, the unemployment rate for electrical engineers dropped to 2.2% and continued falling until 2007, reaching 0.9%, its low.

The IEEE-USA, part of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers Inc., believes engineering unemployment is a bellwether for the economy's recovery and for job creation.

"These new data suggest we've got a long way to go as the United States attempts to regain its economic footing," Gordon Day, the group's president, said in a statement. Approximately 29,000 electrical engineers were unemployed in the April-June quarter; in the first three months of 2009, that number was 13,000.

"We're surprised by the size of the jump in the unemployment rate and have no basis to predict where it will go from here," said Day.

More: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135265/Electrical_engineers_see_job_losses_at_record_levels

[ChromeFoundry]

1. K&R

maybe people will start to see the crisis that exists in this country, now.

[madrchsod]

2. if there`s 0 investment in our power grid

there`s 0 need for electrical/electronic engineers.

[kirby]

3. Wrong engineers...

Those stats are for Electrical Engineers, meaning those who design electronics devices. In the past it correlated with H1B visas. Now I think it is more related to China doing the engineering themselves rather than just fabrication. It also relates to our long term problem of the USA becoming stupider. We continue to fall in Math and Science, so it is inevitable that these hi-tech jobs will disappear.

[ChromeFoundry]

5. I cannot find any facts to back your claim

But I do find studies that contradict your stance:

Study: U.S. students improve in math, science

Associated Press
updated 1:33 p.m. ET, Tues., Dec . 9, 2008

WASHINGTON - In math and science, American kids are doing better than people think, an international study found. But some Asian countries have an edge in math that just keeps growing.

U.S. students have made significant gains in math since 1995 and score above average on international fourth- and eighth-grade tests in the subject, according to a study released Tuesday.

...

Even so, the findings contradict a persistent view in the United States that its children are lagging behind the rest of the developed world. An AP poll in June found that nearly two in five people believe American students do worse on math and science tests than those in most of the developed countries.

Not true, the authors of the report said.

...

The study compares the United States with other rich, industrialized countries as well as many poorer nations. Scores in the U.S. were above the international average in each subject and grade.

On Edit: link - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28141411/

[dalaigh lllama]

6. They are also responsible for the electrical grids in cities

not just electronic devices. I'd think that would be tough to outsource

[Recursion]

11. We do power grid work, too

Electrical engineering is a very diverse discipline and covers "traditional" electrical engineering (power grid stuff, generation and distribution), electronic engineering (consumer and industrial electronics design), computer engineering (electronic engineering, but specialized to computer components and architecture), control systems, signal processing, antennas, radar, queuing/optimization, semiconductors, optics, superconductors, and general electromagnetics research. If it blinks, beeps, or moves itself there is an electrical engineer behind it.

Actually I think that diversity is partly what exposes us to this unemployment risk; I haven't read the IEEE report yet but I would anecdotally expect that EEs specializing in consumer electronics, semis, and computer architecture are taking a hit. People in optics, generation, and antennas seem to be doing ok.

[MadAsHell]

13. Don't forget HVAC

My control system consulting company used to get calls for electrical engineers to work HVAC systems all the time.

[cascadiance]

4. And this is significant as they are about the only unionized workers in media companies...

I remember the games that TV stations used to play with other employees when they even breathed about doing any kind of worker organization. But the stations knew enough not to touch the already unionized electrical engineers there. If these guys are seeing high levels of unemployment, we're still a long ways from recovery.

[TBF]

7. Interesting response -

it seems that unionized workers in many professions are getting squeezed in this "recession". One might even wonder if a bit of "union busting" was occurring. Hmmm...

[Grinchie]

16. The Attack on the Unions is especially interesting in Hawaii at the moment

I appears that yo have noticed the same trend, and what I see is a concerted effrot by the Republicans to create a wedge issue with Labor Unions as the foil.

The executive summary is that all of a sudden, Linda Lingle, Republican governor, and the same person that granted the Hawaii Superferry the ability ot operate without performing a manadatory Environmental Impact Report, and allocated over 40 million dollars in state funds to upgrade docks with barges to help the Superferry, is now is a large budget defiecit.

3 years ago, money was everywhenr, and she increased spending like there was no tomorrow.

The economy crashed, and money started flowing out. Superferry declared bankruptcy, and all the money she had illegally allocated to that endeavor was lost.

Now, she is taking the Bulls buy the Horns, and is Unilateralyy demanding that Government Employees be furloghed. The trouble is, the Government Employees have maintained a strong Labor Union, and the demands that Lingle have made so far were ultimately shot down by the Supreme court.

Now, the Republican attack squad has been mobilized, and there is a concerted effort by many Blog trolls that are known Republican operatives, to demonize the Unions. Their favorite argument is "Private sector has to make cut, so should they", or fire all the unions and hire non union, or such nonsense like that.

It's actually kind of scary to see how much coordination and control these agitators have there, and they will post negative in a 10to 1 ratio.

Having been active on the Honolulu Star Bulleting Topix blogs, it is clear that their is a coordinated effort of bloggers, paid or not paid.. I really don't know what the motivation is for them to be so prolific. What is evident is that they are really, really stupid and immature. They use every dirty trick in the book. Demonization, shoot the messenger, strawman, cicular logic, spam, post scrolling, multiple personalities, and in many cases, they lose track and sign a post with there alter ego, when they were agreeing with themselves with another identity.

When their points are burning is a heap for all to see, they call you stupid and start posting links to vile imagery. It really is a great way to acquaint oneself to the "College Republican" method of opinion shaping.

Nevertheless, it is clear that it is a group of Republicans trying as hard as they can to create a wedge issue to reduce the popularity of the Democrats.

They are Pro Military, Anti Environment, anti Light Rail, which passed on Ballot Initiative, but they cannot let that one rest, because the Republican Mayor brought it forth and succeeded, and now, Anti Union, especially with the brutal tactics being used by Lingle, who appears to be using her last year as Governor to dismantle whatever is left of a functional state government and leave it is shambles, following the lead of G.W. Bush.

If you are noticing the Anti Union chatter ramping up, then I think it is important to take not of it, because it is clear that the Republican Talking Point generators are work on making this issue grow legs.

It's almost like the Republicans are using the Internet and intimate knowledge of Search engines to plant a growing number of hits on Anti Union chatter, which will then be picked up by national media, which is too stupid to actually look at the content.

Illegal Immigrants is not a wedge issue, ao they need to come up with another demon quick, lest everyone be painfully reminded that this economic collapse occurred at the hands of the Republicans.

[MadAsHell]

14. It must be the only field that's unionized

There are very, very few unionized electrical engineering firms.

[HughMoran]

8. It does suck out there.

I feel lucky to be working at all - and I've never felt this way in the 20+ years since I graduated college.

Another EE coworker laid off earlier this year is still out of work. This would have been unheard of just a couple of years ago (as the stats show).

On a positive note, the product I'm working on now is doing well and we're hiring another engineer soon.

[MadAsHell]

15. If I hadn't landed a large project in January

I'd have filed bankruptcy by now. It's been off-again, on-again tough out there for five years now and I had a loyal customer base. They just stopped having funding for capital projects.

[Grinchie]

17. Why fund shops in America when they built state of the art labs in China and Singapore?

In fact, they have been bragging about this for years, but nobody ever put it together that it means less work at home.

Thats ok, with all the increased efficiency, we'll all be able to pursue a life of leisure, hobby and education..

Yeah, right.

[scentopine]

9. First the MBAs, then the lawyers...

I've watched the engineers go from hero of Apollo space program and battleships, computers, telecommunications, jet liners and sky scrappers to near worthless commodity. One by one our fabulous MBAs and wall street titans are stripping away every bit of value the US has and is handing it over to Asia. This includes our ability to design/invent things, build things and fix things. From wall street's perspective everything has been invented. R&D is a waste. We simply need managers and subservient employees who can execute.

We spend billions on computers and training in K-12 and college classrooms only to have wall street demand you outsource to some poor slob in Bangalore who did not touch a keyboard til he was 24 years old. To top it off, while we pay taxes to train our kids here, corporate america is fighting back with our tax dollars and tax incentives, spending billions training people in Asia.

It is not true that America is not competitive in academics and, therefore, not competitive in engineering. It is true that engineers in America won't work for $7 an hour. Meanwhile wall street claims they need $250K/year to attract the best. For wall street, pay appears to be hush money rather than salary for outstanding job performance.

As an American born Caucasian, I have been a minority engineer in my place of employment for many years, however, I strongly disagree that American born workers are not competitive. I do agree that employee's from many Asian cultures often make extremely obedient, lower cost workers even though they aren't highly skilled or innovative. In perfect irony, the insourced Asian engineers are now worried about being outsourced. I've sat in a team meeting with my Indian boss and his Chinese boss and heard them tell us our project has just been outsourced to engineers in India and China. It was something special. And I've watched managers move here from India, convince upper management that they could save money outsourcing and then move back to India to manage the brand new India division. That's also something special to behold. I've watched our CEO lay off hundreds and then two weeks later ask us to welcome our new India team on board!

Guess what? Health care is the next outsourcing frontier! x-rays, imaging, pharmacy, diagnostic tests, etc all being outsourced as we speak, mostly to Asia. Wall street doesn't want to pay good salaries for the best and most skilled workers. They only want the best money for themselves.

We all should be boiling mad over the medical, engineering and scientific disasters wall street and washington have created in just a few decades. Its about to get a whole lot worse. If you think pillaging of our nations intellectual property won't harm our well being as a nation, you are very, very wrong. We need real goods and services. A wall street paper trade really doesn't add much value to the GNP.

Wall Street will continue to strangle us until every last bit of value is extracted from our nation and sold overseas.

[ChromeFoundry]

10. Excellent post!

You are spot on, and the U.S. needs to wake up!

[OhioChick]

12. Good post. n/t

[HughMoran]

18. I agree with every word in your post

It's getting personal and you do NOT want angry engineers in your country. I've heard this explained elsewhere as to why - suffice it to say that educated creative people know how and where to apply pressure - never mind other special skills engineers have. You want to outsource engineering jobs and live in luxury next to your engineer neighbors? You might want to look over your shoulder from time to time.