Should We Throw Out H-1B Visas and Start Over?

[OhioChick]

Sep 3, 2009 11:03:41 AM


Want to generate a string of impassioned -- and not always logical -- comments on your blog? Then write about H-1B visas, which allow companies to hire skilled workers from other countries. They've long been popular among technology companies like Microsoft and Intel, which insist they have trouble finding enough employees with the right skills in the U.S. For proof, we have this post from Ralph DeFrangesco that mentioned H-1Bs and had attracted 28 comments at last count, a good number of them containing personal insults aimed at other commenters.

I've seen this on many of my own posts. I've tried my best to present a balanced view by acknowledging that while there is a need for such visas, the current system for supplying them is open to abuse. That's my problem, I guess. I've never thought it makes sense to take an all-or-nothing approach to H-1Bs, but that's seemingly what a lot of people would like to see.

With all of the rancor, and increasing political pressure on H-1Bs, it's not surprising that India's National Association of Software and Services Companies (Nasscom) is asking the U.S. Congress to consider creating a new category of "service" visa that would allow companies to send workers to the U.S. for short periods but, unlike the H-1B, would not lead to immigration status or permanent residency.

Though the recession has reduced demand for H-1B visas, the drop will be temporary. Indian outsourcing companies like Wipro and Infosys reliably receive the largest numbers of H-1Bs. Their U.S. clients want employees on site to assist with their outsourcing efforts. Stemming the flow of H-1Bs won't end outsourcing. So maybe it makes sense to eliminate the H-1B, establish a new category for these kinds of temporary workers, and also allow more EB and F-4 immigrant visas, which put skilled workers on an expedited path toward permanent citizenship. More of the latter category might help avoid the reverse brain drain that Duke University's Vivek Wadhwa and other experts warn could hurt America's long-term competitiveness.

The H-1Bs don't seem to adequately address the needs of companies that need temporary "service" workers or of companies interested in attracting global talent for long-term employment.

http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/all/should-we-throw-out-h-1b-visas-and-start-over/?cs=35506

Damn Straight We Should.

[Sebastian Doyle]

1. It's even worse than outsourcing

It's bad enough when they send jobs out of the country. But when they won't even hire Americans for the jobs here, somebody's ass should be in prison.

[Deja Q]

3. Why jail them? We're too busy giving them taxpayer money...

"government subsidy", if not the recent bailout nonsense.

[MadMaddie]

2. Absolutely!

Until all unemployed qualified Americans are in positions that are currently given to H-1B Visas.

Take care of our own citizens first, I dont' care if people think it's isolationism.

[sledgehammer]

5. Start with illegal immigrants. They broke the law, and don't pay taxes. n/t

[OhioChick]

6. Dude, this thread is about H-1B visas, not illegal immigration

You always seem to bring up illegal immigration on these threads. :eyes:

[sledgehammer]

10. I was responding to this comment in particluar:

"Take care of our own citizens first, I dont' care if people think it's isolationism. "

Seems to be a lot of this type of attitude on these boards. Fair enough, makes sense.

However, I think it's a bit unfair that H-1s are so vilified and are made to be easy targets, but nary a word on illegal immigrants is said on these boards. Therefore, it's hard to believe the intentions of the anti-H1 crowd are purely in the interest of the American worker. Seems that a lot more subjectivity is involved.

When the anti-H1 crowd starts showing the same attitude toward illegal immigrants by supporting closing the borders, govt raids, and deportation, then it will lend some credence to their fight for the American worker. Till then, I will keep pointing out the hypocrisy.

[OhioChick]

11. "Till then, I will keep pointing out the hypocrisy."

Start your own thread then. :eyes:

[sledgehammer]

12. Ignore me then. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. If you're really interested in stopping illegal immigration,

advocate for EMPLOYER sanctions with teeth in them.

The way it works now, say, in the meat-packing plants in the Midwest, is that there's an INS raid, the workers get busted, the plant owner pays a token fine, and a few weeks later, the plant has a whole new roster of illegal immigrants.

Some plant owners have even been known to call the INS on their own workers if said workers start complaining about working conditions or wages.

If you or anyone else with illegal immigrants on the brain were really SERIOUS, you'd pressure your Congress people for heavy penalties.

Say we had a law where any business that hired illegal immigrants would have ALL its assets seized and auctioned off to anyone who promised in writing to hire only legal residents.

We'll never fix the problem with supply side (INS raids) tactics, because the countries that supply illegal immigrants have growing populations and economies where the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the super-rich.

Suppose that hard economic times here continued and that our unemployment rate continued to climb as wages fell. Suppose that you heard that Canada had a minimum wage of $75 an hour but that illegal jobs were to be had for $40 an hour. I bet a lot of Americans would try to sneak across the border in those circumstances.

Well, that's what is happening in Mexico.

[sledgehammer]

15. Yes, agreed. Employer sanctions are extremely effective.

Sadly, govt has shown no interest in doing that. Repug or Dem, it doesn't matter - no one addresses such a simple solution. I think it's the fear of the business owner, both small and large. Countless small businesses are also heavily reliant on illegal labor to keep their business going, let alone large businesses/corporations.

I understand why illegal immigration happens. And I am in support of commonsense legislation to address it (path to citizenship with fines/backtaxes) and to stem the flow (employer sanctions). But I don't understand the extreme hate toward H-1/L-1 visa holders on DU, and yet sympathy for illegal immigrants. Addressing illegal immigration will help the American worker a lot more than any action on H-1/L-1.

[MadMaddie]

14. The illegal immigrants don't just come over here for anythng

they come because they are enticed by employers who want to pay low wages and break laws. You penalize the companies and eliminate the market for illegal immigrants to come over.

Of course there is the rub, will Americans be willing to work in fields and perform hard labor?

[sledgehammer]

16. Agreed, see post #15.

As for whether Americans are willing to work in fields and perform hard labor, whenever I bring that up in my personal discussions, the response is: "for the right price/benefits they will."

This attitude is another piece of the puzzle. Companies are not willing to pay that price so they hire illegals, and govt does virtually nothing to sanction the employer for this. Hence, this huge market of illegal labor is created which creates a massive burden on our infrastructure because little or no taxes are collected.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Actually, in the 1960-1970s in the Pacific Northwest, berry picking

was a favorite summer job for teenagers who were too young to work in non-agricultural jobs. I remember my cousins doing it and later, when I moved to the area, hearing adults talking about doing it.

To attract American workers, the growers would have to pay more, and that would raise food prices. But since more Americans would be working, it would probably even out eventually.

[ChromeFoundry]

4. discontinue the program until Americans are back to work. n/t

[mule_train]

7. Columnist says "I've never thought it makes sense to take an all-or-nothing approach to H-1Bs"

spoken like someone who's never had all of their livelyhood taken and left with nothing

[Jim Sagle]

8. Yes we need to throw out H-1B visas, but there's NO need to replace them.

Let Americans do the work.

[FreakinDJ]

9. Its all a scam to suppress wages of Tech Workers

The H1B program was bought a paid for by the Electronics Manufacturing Association (Lobbying Group for Silicon Valley)