Max Blumenthal: Joe Wilson's Strange Friends ... white supremacists

[RedEarth]

Since Republican Rep. Joe Wilson of South Carolina bellowed at President Barack Obama, “You lie!” during the president’s nationally televised speech on health care, the fourth-term backbencher has emerged as a hero for the conservative grassroots. One of the most enthusiastic endorsements of Wilson’s histrionics came from the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV), a group that Wilson has belonged to according to his own biographical materials.

“Mr. Wilson, never apologize for allowing your love of truth to overrun your desire to be polite,” the SCV Tea Party declared on its website. “It is the liar who must apologize, not the one who identifies the liar!”

Who are the SCV? A once-proud organization of Confederate history buffs and Civil War re-enactors that traditionally spent its money to restore battlefields and Confederate cemeteries. By 2006, however, the SCV had been substantially taken over by an organized cadre of white supremacists (read here for more background) who sought to turn the nation’s oldest Southern historical society into what the veteran white supremacy activist Kirk Lyons called “a modern, 21st century Christian war machine capable of uniting the Confederate community and leading it to ultimate victory,” had seized much of the SCV’s leadership positions, the Southern Poverty Law Center released an extensive list of SCV officials who belonged to “hate groups.”

Lyons, a key member of this new leadership, had harbored dreams of creating a seemingly benign front group for a more sophisticated version of the Ku Klux Klan. “I have great respect for the Klan historically, but, sadly the Klan today is ineffective and sometimes even destructive,” Lyons told a German neo-Nazi magazine in 1992. “It would be good if the Klan followed the advice of former Klansman Robert Miles: 'Become invisible. Hang the robes and hoods in the cupboard and become an underground organization.'” With the SCV, Lyons discovered he didn’t have to go underground after all....

http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/116718.html

[thereismore]

1. Everybody knows he is a racist. nt

[fascisthunter]

2. except for the racists

[tosh]

3. Linky?

[RedEarth]

4. Thanks......in the OP now....

[tosh]

5. Thanks....

I followed that to the full version.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-09-11/joe-wilsons-rebel-yell/full/

Good read.

[Puzzler]

6. “It is the liar who must apologize"???

Well, I guess that makes him a liar right? Since he went on record that same day to apologize.

[UpInArms]

7. this country has become its own nightmare

:(

[stonewall46]

8. I am member of the Sons of Confederate veterans

I'm not a racist or a supremacist in Fact I am a Zen Buddhist priest in the Soto tradition. All my compatriots in the San Diego SCV know that well.These stories about the Sons of Confederate veterans being taken over by white supremacists are grossly exaggerated. A hedge a central headquarters of the SCV is a bit too conservative for my blood, but in no way is it a white supremacist and many of our members are also members of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, Sons of the American Revolution, Sons of the Republic of Texas and so on.

There are some people who believe that the southern states had a constitutional right to secede, and there's nothing unusual about his opinion it was a commonly held opinion up until the time of the Civil War. And in fact Massachusetts and Virginia both had a right to secede built into their Constitution. Massachusetts legislature actually passed the first articles of secession over the fugitive slave act.
New England held three conventions in Hartford over secession do to their antagonism over the war of 1812, and the Louisiana purchase, and bringing Texas into the union.. and over racism is not tolerated in our group nor in any other SCV camp I have been to know I can't say that there are not racists. There are racists in almost all organizations including the NAACP
I am a Democrat and I am a second lieutenant commander at Camp 302, that I am a Democrat and I voted for President Obama as did our Treasurer who is liberal Democrat. The element that split off from the SCV did so after an attempted coup of the Organization,when they failed they raised hell . AS for the Southern Poverty scam ,that's the most dishonest non profit in the country.Look it Up.

When my son was in the fifth grade he brought back a book from his private school(one in which by the way white children where the minority. He asked me what this word was it was the N word. It was a book about racism. If you call me a racist to my face yes it is likely I will get in your s big time. That you would not like from a former Recon Marine.

Keith Olberman is a prototypical media arrogant jerk just like his evil twin O'Reilly. I bet the guy knows nothing about the Hartford conventions here the words of Marcus Garvey
"Slavery is a condition imposed upon individuals of races not sufficiently able to protect or defend themselves, and so long as a race or people expose themselves to the danger of being weak, no one can tell when they will be reduced to slavery.
"Slavery is not a condition confined to any one age or race of people. Slavery has been since man in the different distribution of himself, scattered here, there and everywhere, has grown and developed, wherein one race will become strong and the other race remains weak. The strong race has always reduced the weak to slavery. It has been so in ages past, it is so now in certain parts of the world, and will be so until the end of time."
There were many black slave owners
Many historians have argued that the majority of black masters purchased their relatives and friends who were held in bondage. Being unable to manumit their loved ones, the black masters were forced to hold their kinsfolk and friends as nominal slaves. So they treated their relatives and friends as free persons, and whenever possible, they attempted to manumit their loved ones. Thus the dominant pattern of slave holding that developed among free blacks was benevolent and based primarily on kinship. The chief architect of the benevolent interpretation was Carter G. Woodson, and his thesis has been accepted by most historians.
Yet the Woodson thesis has many weaknesses that have been overlooked or not fully explored by its supporters. Furthermore, the Woodson thesis has been overemphasized, while the other side of free black slave owning has been characterized as a minor facet by many scholars. However, there is ample evidence which demonstrates that free blacks purchased slaves as capital investments. To many black masters, slaves represented valued property being used to produce more wealth. These slave owners, therefore, bought slaves as commercial assets and used them to make a profit. In fact, the commercial side of free black slave holding was more prevalent than previously maintained by historians. In short, the Woodson thesis that most free black slave owners were benevolent masters may be a myth. . . .
Even though slave owners usually demonstrated benevolent behavior to wards their slave relations and friends, a commercial or materialistic exchange existed between them and their slaves purchased as investments. In fact, the free blacks who maintained a dual relationship with their slaves had no universal commitment against slavery. To them, slavery was an oppressive institution when it affected a beloved relative or a trusted friend, but beyond that realm, slavery was viewed as a profit-making institution to be exploited.
In many instances, free black slave owners shared a similar view of slavery with their white counterparts. Slave owners of both races occasionally manumitted a trusted servant and in the same moment requested the sale of another slave. The act of freeing one or several slaves while others remained in bondage did not constitute a firm commitment against slavery, but a personal view which acknowledged that some slaves, through merit or hard work, deserved their freedom, while others were destined to be slaves until death.
Almost all the ship owners of slavers were New Englanders. Keith the New Yorker I guess does not realize twenty two thousand dead Africans lie beneath the streets of Manhattan many worked to death.Gangs of Northerners mostly new Yorkers captured free blacks and escaped slaves.
New York's Draft riots killed 300 Negroes. New York sent slave ship out every month as many as 20,000 Africans were enslaved by those ships in 1859-1860.
The first anti slavery legislation was passed by the Virginia House of Burgess in 1774 30 years before England but it was vetoed by King George. The New England states along with two states from the deep south re forced slavery into the Constitution against the will of Jefferson,George Mason and other Virginians.
Harry Truman was a member of the SCV as is Clint Eastwood. AS for terms like harboring white Supremacist this is just hyperbole.You will find more white supremacist in an Irish bar in South Boston than you will find in the SCV. Y'all remove the log from your own eyes before you remove the splinter from min.If you do not mind the biblical reference(and I do not believe in the Bible and or Christ)
By the way two of our "racist members are married to Mexican gals and one God forbid a creole from Louisiana. crazy woman harboring a white supremacist in her own bed.

[classysassy]

9. A Mexican gal

did you mean a Mexican woman or lady?

[stonewall46]

12. Un Mujer Mexicana

Si,un mujer Mexicana es la esposa de me compadre. she refers to her self as a Mexican Gal. this is not uncommon for someone over 50.

[pauldg0]

10. Did you cut and paste all that stuff....

...my eyes are glossing over!!

[Tutankhamun]

11. You forgot to include a long, plagiarized block of incomprehensible text about

how writing in intelligible paragraph form is for the weak who deserve to be exploited. You could also use a line or two discussing your affiliation with the A.S.S. A.S.S. (American Society Standing Against Sentence Structure).

However, you were brilliant to link Keith Olbermann (your "prototypical media arrogant jerk") together with Bill O'Reilly, his "evil twin". So strong was this link of yours that it required no evidence, no explanation, no reasoning whatsoever!

One small criticism though: You need to learn to take yourself more seriously.

[stonewall46]

13. tut tut dear Tut

A media jerk in my view uses his position to bash a person or a group of people without any personal knowledge of them,and never gives them recourse to counter the hit and run ad hominems.
Sorry if I offend your grammatical sensibilities. Perhaps you should join C.R.A.P. The committing for review of Academic Pedantry.

[Tutankhamun]

15. You just fit your own definition of a "media jerk".

You define a "media jerk" as someone who "...uses his position to bash a person, or a group of people, without any personal knowledge of them, and never gives them recourse to counter the hit and run ad hominems.

You've just used an ad hominem ("media jerk") to bash Keith Olbermann. You've displayed no "personal knowledge" of him, as you clearly cite no example of Olbermann behaving in such a manner. Finally, you give him no recourse to counter your "hit and run ad hominem". All three qualifiers -- you've hit the trifecta!

You embody the "prototypical media jerk" you so obviously despise.

P.S. You mean _Committee_ for Review of Academic Pedantry.

[stonewall46]

18. I am not in the media

I am aware of Keith's career and his views they are public,many of which I agree with. However how can I be a media jerk when i am not in the media. MY comments on Keith are based one what he does in the media not on his personal life. If I could talk to him or write to him then I would be happy to to hear his rebuttal. I can not so be serious.
Well hs attack on the SCV,tarring all with same brush,was the case in point was it not.
What I am I going to write his bio,it is on his web site and his opinions are quite clearly enunciated.
This is interesting one can only find issues with my typing et all and then never address the heart of what I said.
For me to be a media anything I would need a bully pulpit as TR would say..

Does a media personality have the right to Tar all members of a group because of the actions of one. Examine what he said a group "Accused) not convicted,harboring white racists. inflammatory McCarthyism a classic Circumstantial ad Hominem ,as well as Poisoning the Well fallacy. belonging to a group that has certain members
attacking my lack of typing skills does not adress my arguemnts it is yet another ad hominem.

[provis99]

14. so to sum up this long screed in actual English,

You're a member of a racist organization you deny is racist, you think black people were slave owners who were as bad as white slave owners, Keith Olbermann is equivalent to Bill O'Reilly, Southern secession to keep slaves was no different than New England wanting to secede over immoral land grabs, New Englanders are to blame for slavery, and New Yorkers are inherently racist, New Yorkers enslaved free black people and committed genocide against them, and you're not racist because your buddies are married to Mexican "gals".

Wouldn't you be happier posting at freeperville or Stormfront?

enjoy your short stay here, troll.

[zoff]

16. Ever think about quitting the SCV?

The SCV in Truman's time is not the SCV of today. I am Roman Catholic AND unabashed DEMOCRAT. Today's sermon was about how St. Peter professed his love, but as prophesied, he had all but abandoned his master before the cock crowed thrice. Point being, it's not what you say or state, but what you do. Wouldn't it be consistent with your Buddhist ideals to quit the SCV and denounce it's current racist composition. Do you really want to be associated with people who support the likes of a Joe Wilson?

[stonewall46]

17. Joe Wilson is not a spokesperson for the SCV ,he is just a member,many SCV members are democrats

Do you know someone who was in the SCV then and now I do? The SCV leadership are not dictators all our camps do our own thing. No one espouses white supremacy or hate openly and I have not heard it privately either..


No ,I will not leave the SCV and here is why. The organization is a heritage organization,not a political one. Do you know people who are in the SCV? Have you ever heard of Senator McCarthy, well this very similar to an attack on the SCV over racism. If one is a racist they all are. Wild debates go on in our magazine over politics from all sides.Would you quit the Catholic Church because the Pope was once a member of the Hitler Jugend. What does the bible say of slavery.It supports it.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. (Eph. 6:5-6)
Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-10)

Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God's approval. (1Pet. 2:18-29)

The SCV does not but there are apologists for sure.




do you know last year various stores on line sold 15 thousand flags and stickers that have the Battle flag and the words heritage not hate. Lets go dig up something that was written 100 years ago and show it as proof the organization is Racist now. The Southern Poverty Group just brands who they like when they like Tail Gunner Joe would be proud.

GO to a meeting and judge for yourself
There is no expressed racism it is outlawed. This is from our local site I am second lieutenant commander.
Welcome to Camp 302 Father A.J. Ryan in San Diego


Sons of Confederate Veterans of California is a historical organization dedicated to preserving the history and good name of the Confederate soldier, sailor and marine.

Our organization has no racial component whatsoever, expressed or implied. All Confederate descendants are eligible and welcome to join, regardless of color, politics, national origin or religion. The San Diego Chapter regularly cooperates and meets with other heritage organizations such as the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War,The Sons of the American Revolution and the United Daughters of the Confederacy.

Meetings are usually held every two months on the second Saturday of the month,with some exceptions for special events and reenactments. Camp A. J. Ryan is one of several camps of SCV California.

Our camp is named after the Poet Laureate of the Confederacy, Father A. J. Ryan.

Policy on Hate Groups
The Sons of Confederate Veterans is not a hate group. The California Division of SCV does not knowingly allow anyone with ties to hate groups to join and has removed, and will remove, anyone from its ranks who expresses racist sentiments. Specifically, the following is not allowed and will be grounds for immediate dismissal:

-Attempting to recruit fellow SCV members for racist groups
-Disseminating racist literature to fellow SCV members, either through mailings or in person.

ALL MEMBERS MUST BE AWARE OF THESE RESTRICTIONS, AS THEY WILL BE RIGOROUSLY ENFORCED.

Loving the South and defending its culture, symbols and heritage does not mean hate. In fact, many SCV members are descendants of African-American, Catholic, Jewish, Native American, Hispanic and Asian Confederates. The contributions of these groups to Southern culture have made it a beautiful and unique region. To deny their descendants membership in our organization would betray our principles and the very ancestors we honor. We welcome all descendants of Confederate soldiers, sailors, and marines or those who materially aided the South in its struggle for independence.

[billh58]

19. The SCV, like

many other "apologist" and racist organizations is responsible for contributing to the notion that there was something "noble" about the antebellum South. Here is an excerpt from a Wikipedia article about the formation and mission of the SCV:

The Sons of Confederate Veterans describes its mission as "preserving the history and legacy of heroes, so future generations can understand the motives that animated the Southern Cause."

Stephen D. Lee's 1906 charge to the SCV is widely cited by the organization as one of its organizing principles:

"To you, Sons of Confederate Veterans, we will submit the vindication of the cause for which we fought. To your strength will be given the defense of the Confederate soldier's good name, the guardianship of his history, the emulation of his virtues, and the perpetuation of those principles he loved. Remember, it is your duty to see that the true history of the South is presented to future generations."

{emphasis added}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Confederate_Veterans

- "Motives that animated the Southern Cause?" What in the hell "cause" would that be? "Cause we 'uns needed the sub-human darkies to do the work for us?"

- "Vidication of the cause for which we fought?" What "vidication" would that be bubba? Perpetual racism and being proud of it?

- "Emulation of his virtues?" Virtues like buying and selling other human beings, splitting up families, and breeding humans like cattle? Those fucking virtues?

- "Perpetuation of those principles he loved?" Like racism. bigotry, hatred, refusal to accept Reconstruction, Separate-but-Equal segregation 100 years after getting your collective asses kicked by the real Americans who actually founded this country? Those fucking principles?

- "true history of the South?" Look in ANY fucking history book worldwide! The "true history of the South" is still with us today, and shows its ugly face in the form of residual racism, bigotry, and hatred by those whose illiterate and ignorant ancestors got exactly what they deserved, and who are STILL fighting a war they can't admit to losing.

An organization which seeks to perpetuate the principles of slavery, bigotry, and the glorification of hatred is no better than any other white-supremacist group. So run along Bubba, and fly your pathetic and disgraced Confederate Flag at "re-enactments" of the ass-whoopin y'all received from the ancestors of those of us who see through your thinly-veiled rednecked bullshit.

My friend is married to a "Mexican Gal?" My God, but you and your kind are sincerely pathetic. Please, just go on back to FR and celebrate with your rednecked buddies about how stupid the North was to even attempt to bring reason and equality to the United States of America and its citizens.

The South will rise again? As one of your rednecked heroes, Sarah Palin, would say: "You betcha..."

[zoff]

21. But have you spoken out against their support of Wilson?

[Skittles]

20. you are a complete fucking idiot