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Words Have Consequences: Henry II to Clay County Kentucky?

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:04 PM
Original message
Words Have Consequences: Henry II to Clay County Kentucky?

Legend says Henry II, the first king to call himself the King of England rather than King of the English, intemperately blurted out to four loyal knights, "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" His actual statement may have been closer to "What miserable drones and traitors have I nurtured and promoted in my household who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born cleric!" And thus did the four knights ride off into infamy, and Thomas Becket achieve martyrdom. When the high-born, the famous, and the powerful are brought low at the hands of knavish assassins we mourn collectively, deeply, and nationally.

We've grieved for four presidents, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy. For Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and for former Attorney General Robert Kennedy. Terrifying attempts were made by the deranged and deluded on the lives of Andrew Jackson, on Theodore Roosevelt, on Franklin D. Roosevelt, on Harry Truman, on Gerald Ford, on Ronald Reagan. None of these attacks were perpetrated by a cast of thousands, but with the exception of the Truman attack, by single individuals whose delusions gave them the authority to attack figures to whom their attention had been drawn and focused. For these assaults we grieved at the successes and breathed deep relief for those ultimately unsuccessful. However, what if the targets are not the high born, the famous, or the powerful?

What if the target was the 16th Street Baptist Church of Birmingham, Alabama on September 15, 1963 and the victims were Addie Mae Collins, Denise McNair, Carole Robertson, and Cynthia Wesley? They died at the hands of KKK bombers for no other reason than they happened to members of a church serving as a focal and organizing point for the modern civil rights movement.

What if the target was the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City? At 9:02 AM, April 19, 1995 a Ryder rental truck/bomb killed 168 people in the building and injured more than 680 others. What if some of those victims were perfectly innocent children in the day care center? Right wing conspiracy theorist and devotee of the racist "Turner Diaries" Timothy McVeigh would be convicted and executed for this heinous crime, saying before he died that he was sorry about the children, but they were "collateral damage."

What if the targets were people from all over the globe watching, enjoying, and celebrating the Olympic Games in Atlanta, GA? Do we remember that Alice Hawthorne, of Albany, GA died when part of the bomb set by Eric Rudolph sent a nail into her head at 1:20 AM on July 27, 1996? Rudolph "explained" his horrendous attack by saying the games celebrated "global socialism," and he wanted to attack an "abominable government that sanctioned abortion on demand." 111 other people were injured in Rudolph's attack.

What if the targets were nurses and physicians at a womens' clinic in 1998? A miscreant coward set off a bomb at 7:30 AM, January 29, 1998 killing "Robert D. Sanderson, 35, an eight-year police veteran who was working part time as a guard at the clinic. The blast also badly injured Emily Lyons, a 41-year-old nurse who was opening the clinic. Ms. Lyons, in surgery all day today, was wounded in one eye and her face, and both legs were seriously injured." Dr. Sanderson died, and nurse Emily Lyons was injured because someone believed that their demise was justified, at the very least by the violent verbiage of some members of the anti-abortion public leadership. An off duty police officer was also killed, by the bomb created by Eric Rudolph.

What if the target was the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, on July 27, 2008? James David Adkisson fired a shotgun into a congregation watching a musical performance, killing Greg McKendry and Linda Kraeger, and wounding five other people. Adkisson was detained at the scene, arrested, and interrogated. "During the interview Adkisson stated that he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets. Adkisson made statements that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them into office. Adkisson stated that he had held these beliefs for about the last ten years."

What if the target was Dr. George Tiller, one of the few physicians in the nation who offered late term abortions? Dr. Tiller was gunned down in his own church, Sunday May 31, 2009 by Scott Roeder who discussed the possibility of a "justifiable homicide" defense with his attorney in August, 2009. Dr. Tiller's death adds to an already long list of physicians killed by virulent and violent anti-abortionists: Dr. Barnett Slepian (1998), Dr. J.B. Britton (1994), Dr. David Gunn (1993).

What if the target was the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum? What if the victim were security guard Stephen T. Johns who had helpfully opened the door for 88 year old rabid anti-Semite James von Brunn, only to die protecting the museum for which he'd worked for six years as of June 10, 2009?

And, now we worry that the hanging of Census Bureau employee William Sparkman, found on September 12, 2009 in the Daniel Boone National Forest in Clay County, Kentucky, may be the latest victim of an anti-government "hate" attack. Sparkman died with the letters "FED" on his chest.

"Gilbert Acciardo, a retired Kentucky state trooper who directs an after-school program at the elementary school where Sparkman was a frequent substitute teacher, said he had warned Sparkman to be careful when he did his Census work. "I told him on more than one occasion, based on my years in the state police, 'Mr. Sparkman, when you go into those counties, be careful because people are going to perceive you different than they do elsewhere,'" Acciardo said. "Even though he was with the Census Bureau, sometimes people can view someone with any government agency as 'the government.' I just was afraid that he might meet the wrong character along the way up there," Acciardo said."


We don't yet know if Mr. Sparkman met with moonshiners or drug traffickers or other anti-government types, but we do know that whoever killed a man described as someone who "saw the good in everyone," was a "person or persons unknown" who didn't want any representative of the government to remain alive where they found him.

So, when Glenn Beck tells his audience that Census workers are taking down data to enslave American citizens, and Rep. Michele Bachmann rants on Beck's venue that the Census Bureau doesn't need your phone number - and that people should refuse to fill out Census data forms, we have to wonder if this rhetoric feeds the delusions of the kindred spirits to "Bomber Chambliss," or Eric Rudolph, or James von Brunn, or Scott Roeder, or Timothy McVeigh, or James Adkisson. If right wing "hate radio" hosts conjure ever more shocking conspiracy theories to drive ratings, are they also driving the Chambliss's, the Rudolphs, the von Brunns, the Roeders, and the McVeighs?

As Henry II found, to his ultimate horror, his words (in whichever version one prefers) had consequences. There are better words to heed now, not new, spoken in March 1865:
"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations." Abraham Lincoln, 2nd Inaugural Address.

And perhaps we ought to consider living with malice toward none and charity for all not only for safety and security of the high born, the famous, and the powerful, but also for the little girls in the church basement, the children in the day care center, the spectators at the Olympic Games, the nurses, doctors, and security guards at the womens' clinics, the congregants in a Unitarian Universalist Church, and the security guards at the U.S. Holocaust Museum. Words had consequences for them too.

http://desertbeacon.blogspot.com/2009/09/words-have-consequences-henry-ii-to.html
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. it wasn't words that wrought the evil.
It was the doers of the deeds.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. it isn't the spark that kills people- it's the toxic fumes - heat - flames.
words have meaning- words have power.

Yes the individuals have to take action, but words all too often spark the action.

we ignore this reality at the sake of everyone.


:(
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. philosophically you seem to side with fatalism
SOME PEOPLE are robots, helpless to make their own choices?

I agree there is responsibility when you are a trusted "source" of information not to abuse how you present that information to achieve a certain outcome; violence is terrorism is easiest to execute, hardest to recover from without more of the same.

But I insist that the responsibility lies most strongly with the person wielding the axe, not the guy who made the axe.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. no, i don't side with fatalism at all- i am simply pointing out
that people can feed either wolf.

Inciting hatred and discord harvests a bad crop.

Encouraging people to choose the better angels- yields somewhat less negative outcomes.

When the people in this society preach hatred and fear- when we are constantly being encouraged to "not trust the government" (which IS "us" in reality) when toting around guns to social gatherings is depicted as patriotic- brave- bold-, when lies even dis-proven lies are carried around by loud voices and used to alienate and divide US,("socialist"-"liar"-"next Hitler") "the wolf" that destroys and kills is being fed.

Would it be fair of me to think you don't believe people who pay to have others killed should be held responsible? Do you believe Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney and others shouldn't be held responsible for the deaths their words have caused?

If I tell someone that the person approaching me in a dark alley has a gun was going to kill me, and you respond by killing them first, do I not have responsibility?

We can't encourage someone to do something, and then blame them for doing it, with a "who me" expression on our faces- Can we??
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. paying and saying are two different things
(sorry I'm full of homily today)

I get that if you are a high priest you will be surrounded by people for whom payment is your praise.

But as a high king (so to speak) my experience is that the people who surround you are there for pay.

Isn't it odd then that the people who elect to receive payment for doing evil are somehow more evil than the people who are being evil for moral reasons?

I agree there are "aggravating" circumstances, including master manipulators and professional sheep, but ultimately it boils down to CHOICE. If people don't have a choice about being manipulated then they're like sharks in the ocean. If they don't eat you they'll eat someone, sharks aren't evil or immoral. It's the hunger in the shark's belly that's evil.

I have to go with 99 to the nines blame on the one who did it, not the one who said to did it or paid to did it. Force people to be responsible for the choices they make, and you make them more human, not less human.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Full of something, for sure...
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. you're not smart enough to be posting here.
Sorry I hurt your feelings but you started with the Keyboard bullshit. Grow up and post like an adult please.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. M'kay. I bow to your uniqueness....
:bounce:
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Okay, dear professional writer.
1. Could you please reiterate the OP topic and what you found objectionable enough in my reply to require an ad hominem attack?

2. If you're just looking for witticisms to adapt for your own blog, just ask me nicely instead of making yourself the hapless target. I find nothing of use in yours, by the way. Maybe geritol would make you wittier.

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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Have you ever been to Earth?
If you get there look around, it's full of people looking for leadership who lack the information or cognition to evaluate the quality of that leadership.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. While that is true, the words may well have emboldened the doers.
Incitement to Riot is a crime in most jursdictions. Morally and ethically, encouraging others to do violence is just wrong, plain and simple.

"Let's you and him fight" is the byword of the 101st Keyboard Warriors. Unwilling to do violence themselves, they foment it in others. Cowardly people have done this since the dawn of human existence, and many people have died because of it.

It's easy to say what you have said. If you truly believe it, I am very sorry for you.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I was fine until you got to the ad hominem
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 01:25 PM by sui generis
So gird yourself dear simpleton.

It's easy to blather on about how when Rush Limpballs incites his idiot horde to violence it's Rush's fault just because you need a devil with a name for your evils, and you did blather oh Keyboard Strategist.

You don't sound like a real liberal. You sound like a professional victim, willing to blame all of society for your ills, but not the dude who shanked you for your wallet.

If you truly believe that, you don't require pity, you require medication.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Oh, you have cut me to the quick with your rapier-like wit.
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 02:11 PM by MineralMan
Will I recover from those grievous wounds or was your weapon only half sharp? Rush isn't guilty of the crime, nor is Beck. I did not say they were. They're guilty only of inciting the crime. That's guilty enough to deserve a share of the blame.

As for my liberal credentials, your opinion of them is not particularly desired.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. You started it.
Own it. Now move along - you've been skewered and I'll do it again, although it is an effort to skewer such a sharp marble as yourself.

:eyes:

Play nice if you want others to play nice with you.
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Will no one rid me of this priest?
The big lie repeated works.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Okay, now for a little nuance
So what is the moral burden of the murderers if they believe their own lives to be at stake if they don't comply? What about their livelihoods? In some societies there is no difference - no income, your daughters are prostitutes and your sons can't marry end of gene line.

Is our moral emphasis on choice versus obligation really morally superior, or just fashionable?
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. We,western civilization, don't live in the 13th century
Reformation and all that.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. OH my bad.
Edited on Fri Sep-25-09 09:27 AM by sui generis
Edited for civility.

Maybe I missed the nuance, but I thought we were speaking in general terms. The reformation apparently did not influence Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Ahmedinejad, KJL or Bush Junior, and their minions. It did not impact Manson or Koresh.

This thread started off to be a decent discussion of accountability versus responsibility, but it seems every monkey that swung in from the rafters to reply has had to do it in the least engaging way possible.

Now then perfesser of histery, tell me what in HELL the reformation has to do with this thread or with anything I said. And all that.



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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. goodby
and all that
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. did you come here to discuss or to flounce off?
and all that.

This is DU. The M.O. here is that we assume some bit friendliness first. The low posters tend to swing in from the rafters and assault DU veterans like myself as a form of discussion. What's wrong with just making your point?

The lesson learned for you is that posturing leads to flouncing, on your part, and it could have all been much more civil.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. words have more power than most people want to admit-
Words can motivate people for good and evil.

Very good article. K&R
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. +1
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road2000 Donating Member (995 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Rec'd
What if the target was a liberal senator from Minnesota...
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
21. Same stuff applies to the use of homophobic hate preachers
such as Donnie McClurkin, by Barack Obama. They speak hate, Donnie accused the gay community of being child killers, Obama called Donnie a 'good, decent and moral person' and continued to use him. The constant violence against GLBT people, especially minority GLBT people, is connected to the words of such people as McClurkin, Caldwell, the women in 'Sister, Sister' and other speakers of hateful bigotry and invective who promoted Senator Obama for President.
It is not just them. It is also Democrats who engage in this dangerous and bloody game. Pointing fingers at others when you yourself are guilty of the same thing is just hypocrisy. Nothing more.
There is no Party that stands on righteous ground on this issue. Dismount the high horse and begin to make change please.
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