Iowa researcher finds Nader likely helped Gore in 2000 election

[newtothegame]

Source: University of Iowa News Service

Nine years have passed, but many Democrats are still sore at Ralph Nader for his maverick candidacy in the 2000 election that many believe was the reason George W. Bush beat Al Gore.

But new research from a marketing professor in the University of Iowa's Tippie College of Business suggests that while that claim is true, it also suggests that Nader's candidacy actually helped Gore.


Read more: http://news-releases.uiowa.edu/2009/september/09289nader-gore.html

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

1. .

:hide: :yoiks:










.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ozymanithrax]

3. We know the SCOTUS did not help Gore.

Their per curiam decision was, effectively, unanimous in favor of Bush.

[timeforpeace]

26. "Living in the Past" is one of my fav Jethro Tull songs.

[Ozymanithrax]

27. What are we doing in trying to white wash Nader?

I do hope he does not intent to run again.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

4. This story is useless without ...

:popcorn:

Unless of course Nader is passe. Now we have Chavez.

[onehandle]

5. It's amazing how the word 'Florida' isn't mentioned. The state where Nader torpedoed Gore.

Nader spent a lot of time there in the final weeks even as polling showed that Florida was the game for Bush.

Nader is one of three factors that gave us Bush. The other two being a cheating GOP in Florida and a crooked SCOTUS.

Any one removed would have saved us.

Thank you, Ralph. Thank you for President George W. Bush.

[bc3000]

13. I don't know if I agree

I think if you remove Nader than the GOP would have adjusted its cheating in Florida to account for it. Jeb was not going to let his brother lose Florida.

[No Elephants]

46. Sorry, but Nader made the difference in Florida. And, to a lesser extent, the confusing ballot,

which caused some of the Gore voters to vote for Buchanan (by Buchanan's own admisstion). Nader certainly had a legal right to run; and I now empathize a lot more than I did in 2000 with his view that the two parties were too much alike. But Nader gave us a near tie, followed by Bush v. Gore, followed by 8 years of George Dummya Bush.

[Enthusiast]

58. I suspect you are right.

They cheated enough to win but hoped it would not arouse suspicion. But they cheated enough that we know for certain they cheated.

[Bicoastal]

6. If it comes from the Tippie College of Business...

...it must be true.

[Diane R]

7. Oh please. I know people who would have voted for Gore, but voted for Nadar. That research is crap.

[road2000]

8. This is research?

How large were the test groups -- 3 people? And the control groups measured soda preference? The numbers bear no relation to the final outcome, in which, I might add, Bush didn't "beat" Gore. How many times does it need repeating that Gore won the popular vote by more than a half-million, and the overvotes alone in Florida indicate a substantial majority there, had the SCOTUS not handed the prize to the Shrub.

Bah. Thanks, Ralph.

[newtothegame]

9. Gore could have ran a better campaign and never had it be that close...

we all agree that Bush was such a loser, but then why was Gore only able to win the popular vote by 500,000 or so?

[bc3000]

12. Bill Clinton's blowjob

I believe that's the answer you are looking for.

[newtothegame]

15. Bill Clinton lying under oath when given the chance to be honest hurt more. n/t

[kenfrequed]

28. honestly

Running from the left did a hell of a lot of damage. His advisors sanded off anything resembling a rough edge or a policy left of the John Birch society.

Nader could have been driven off early and often had he not tried to be a DLC friendly 'New Democrat'

[wyldwolf]

37. silly statement

"His advisors sanded off anything resembling a rough edge or a policy left of the John Birch society."

Very naive.

[kenfrequed]

41. good ad hominem

very detailed

[No Elephants]

45. Give me a break.

[wyldwolf]

36. Bill Clinton had an approval rating in the high 60s.

:shrug:

Facts always counter Clintonitis.

[No Elephants]

55. Nonetheless,a number of evangelical type church folk who had theretofore

voted Democratic faithfully, went to Bush bc of what Clinton had done.

[No Elephants]

44. What a funny way to spell "Diebold."

[Unvanguard]

18. Yes, he could have. Any election result is the consequence of a confluence of factors.

Nader was one of them.

[No Elephants]

48. Gore lost bc of Florida and Nader made the difference in Florida. Without Nader, Gore would

have been the clear winner in Florida, hence no SCOTUS case. And, if he took Florida, he would have had all the electoal votes he needed to win.

[CreekDog]

31. What's wrong with Obama that the teabaggers don't like him?

see the problem with your argument?

[Unvanguard]

10. The methodology has no resemblance whatsoever to an actual election

and the proof is in the voting margins.

What a useless study.

[tomm2thumbs]

11. Gore got 'SNL'd' in some ways with his 'lock box' jargonization

both Palin and Clinton got the same treatment so they are equal opportunity satirists, but Gore's characterizations did stick pretty strong.

Looking back, neither his presentation style, nor Kerry's, was tops and frankly it affects outcome.

[HisTomness]

14. Gore lost because...

he acted like an ineffectual twit in an effort to court more votes.
He appeared significantly more disingenuous than he should have.
Exactly the same thing that happened to H. Clinton in the primary.
Similar to what happened to J. McCain in 2008, insofar as he presented himself disingenuously to court the Republican base.

Wanna be a leader? Show some confidence in yourself.
It's the sort of thing that people pick up on unconsciously.
That means it can work for you despite your audience's intelligence level.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Al Gore won more votes than George W. Bush by half a million nationwide

If he's ineffectual, how's George Bush?

[LisaM]

33. Gore didn't lose. So it's not really correct to say he ran a bad campaign.

Gore's kind of confidence in himself is really not the kind of frat-boy swagger that Bush showed.

Sadly, we had an electorate in 2000 that was complacent and refused to look at real intellectual differences between Gore and Bush (not to mention a complicit media). Bush was probably self confident when he was running Arbusto, too. Narcissists generally exude that.

[JTFrog]

40. So you've come here to try to rewrite history?

You just lost a ton of credibility.

[Enthusiast]

60. Yup. nt

[No Elephants]

47. Gore lost bc of Nader in Florida and too many Bushies on the SCOTUS. And Diebold.

[johan helge]

57. Gore lost for many reasons

- probably not because of any of your constructions,

- but partly because of Nader.

[Enthusiast]

59. Gore lost because the

vote was manipulated and the SCOTUS ruled the recount be stopped. Gore actually won the fucking election.

[no_hypocrisy]

16. Not enough obviously.

[Liberation Angel]

17. DLC centrists torpedoed Gore and still blame Gore for a bad campaign

Blaming Gore for a bad campaign is a DLC and republican talking point.

The DLCers undermined him at every turn and nader just hammered nails in the coffin for Bush and the Fourth Reich.

The Clintons opposed him actively (but stealthily)

The Reich wing corporate media crucified him.

It is surprising that there are so many who repeat the right wing meme that Gore ran a bad campaign or was weak.

Given what he was up against and given the fact that he actually won both the electoral and popular vote (stolen by the corrupt SCOTUS majority) he did a fine job in my opinion.

[Uncle Joe]

20. The corporate media were intent on undermining Gore and propping up Bush years before the election.

I believe this was in large part because Al Gore was the prime political champion for opening up the Internet to the people and this threatened the corporate media's one way power of telling the American People what reality was and they saw the growing power and influence of the Internet as an eventual undermining of their long accumulated power, influence and all the money that goes with it.

So the heads of the corporate media played Zeus to Al Gore's Prometheus, however instead of sending their vulture pundit propaganda army to eat an eternally growing liver, they slandered, libeled and trashed his credibility relentlessly taking bites from honest information to the American People beginning in March of 99 with the "Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet" slander; only weeks after Clinton's impeachment. This of course was only one of a multitude of false witness lies bored by America's "Fourth Estate" "guardian watchdogs for democracy".

I'm convinced more than any other person or institution, the corporate media is by far most responsible for denying the American People their probable greatest President and instead enabling a corrupt incompetent Bush to power and much of it was done out of sheer petty, short sighted, narrow-minded spite.

[No Elephants]

50. The SCOTUS did its part, as did Jeb and Katherine.

[Uncle Joe]

62. Without the corporate media's near two year war of slander and libel against Gore's

credibility, the lesser actors never would've had parts that really mattered, Al Gore would have won by a landslide, carrying some states that he didn't win and winning overall by a margin too large for Bush, the SCOTUS, and Harris, et al to steal.

The corporate media are the prime culprits, the most dysfunctional institution by far and in their current form a continuing danger to the American People as they serve no purpose other than promoting corporate supremacist propaganda, while brain washing the people as they would later do during the run up to the war with Iraq and as they're doing now regarding the issue of health care. In short they have written off the best interests of the American People in favor of their corporate ad/commercial buying clients and as such will only be an adverse dynamic to the concept of a government of "We the People".

Bush's corrupt/incompetence promoted to the most powerful job in the land was a direct result of the corporate media's institutional efforts to dumb down the people while also demeaning the import of the Presidency; itself.

Would anybody "Rather have a beer" with a President that would send their son or daughter off to die in a war based on lies and is having a beer an important consideration for such a deliberation? Apparently the Fourth Estate" "Guardian watchdogs for democracy thought it was."

[Enthusiast]

61. Well said, Uncle Joe. nt

[wyldwolf]

23. Far left revisionism designed to make themselves feel better

Aside from a post-election analysis and unfair treatment from the media, there's little else in your post that can be substantiated with facts.

[onehandle]

24. DLC centrists gave me a bad hair day today.

Is there no limit to their evil powers?

[kenfrequed]

29. It's about policy.

Really. Playing this 'you blame the DLC for everything' meme is absurd. They have a policy and a position far different from what progressives want. They also play rough and have a lot of corporate money to use and the media pretends like their people are the spokesmen of the party.

[wyldwolf]

35. which has nothing to do with the discussion at hand

You want to discuss DLC policy, fine. But stick to the facts. No need to make shit up like the DLC torpedoed Al Gore. That's what the right is so good at - inventing their own facts (the end justifies the means?)

[Liberation Angel]

38. I have a close relative who worked for Clinton - They hated Gore

the DLC insiders I know well and studied their memes before, during an after the election and campaign.

Bill Clinton was a toady and water carrier for the Bushes and Stephens group in Arkansas (who were Saudi connected and Bin Laden family connected)

Begala and his sister worked to destroy Gore's campaign from the inside and to plant the meme that "Gore ran a bad campaign" (which originated in the Clinton white house.

Begala was tight with Rove's people (Mark McKinney was Paul Begala's best friend and was Rove's main PR guy --- they all worked together in a major lobbying company and were partners while at the same time supposedly opponents)

I worked on the Hill and was close to some of this action.

The meme that "Gore blew it" started the day after Bush stole the election and came from WITHIN the DLC core propagandist wing.

I know because I heard it there first.
Never forget Mena airport and the Clinton Bush ties to iran-cocaine-contra as well as to the Stephens group (Saudi backed Arkansas mafia that backed both Bushes and Clinton with Saudi dough)

BTW the Stephens group founder ran the ads attacking Howard Dean for his latte drinking volvo driving supporters.

It was THAT kind of DLC support who made up this meme (right wing fascist money) to have all the blame shifted away from Bush and the SCOTUS (and Clinton) and lay it all on Gore so as to KEEP Gore forever out of the white house.

[kenfrequed]

42. Sometimes

Sometimes they seem to function as their own party with their own spinners. It never matters why a democratic candidate REALLY fails to get elected, to them it is always the same- too liberal, not moderate enough, too "captured by special interests" (which translates to the old DLC as labor unions, teachers, and minority groups).

They have money and spin but oddly they don't have a lot of membership outside of lobbyists and politicians. It is almost the exact opposite of a grass roots organization and serves its corporate masters rather well.

[kenfrequed]

43. Sorry

But when I see two or three posts decrying the far left or mocking critiques of the DLC I have to point out the factual differences we have and the existant and real irritation the organization is causing.

It is apparantly relevant to the conversation because someone else brought it up and a few standard pro DLC posts came up in response.

[No Elephants]

49. Not all that surprising, if you check the profiles of those who are doing it.

[depakid]

19. Not surprising at all, considering how the corporate media spun the race

covering for Bush's lies and making he and Cheney (who was already on record as an extremist) appear to be "compassionate conservatives."

[Festivito]

21. That race was close. Gore won the vote. Nader took Republican money.

These things we now know.

Nader could have tried for an electoral college vote or two from Nebraska, and, instead, fought corporate heavy and corporate light to NO AVAIL and to this day doesn't seem to know what that vote should have taught him.

[L. Coyote]

22. Purging black Florida voters helped Bush the most!

Cheating was the name of the game.

[No Elephants]

51. But for Nader, Gore would have survived that and taken Florida definitively,. There would have

been no recount, no SCOTUS case and no 8 years of Dummya.

[bowens43]

25. if nader wasn't on the ballot in florida Gore would have been president....

there is no denying that.

[the other one]

34. I deny it.

It was stolen. They didn't need Nader's help or his presence.

[No Elephants]

52. Actually, they did. The Florida numbers tell the story of the 2000 election very clearly.

[Vidar]

32. Gore lost because of Jeb Bush, Harris & the Supremes.

[No Elephants]

53. And, most of all, Nader.

[Echo In Light]

56. +1...funny how people will create an entire "Nader's Fault" mythology rather than acknowledge a....

Gasp... CONSPIRACY THEORY! lol

[Liberation Angel]

39. Nader - Clintons - Bushes - Stephens Group all wanted to destroy Gore

DLC insiders I know well and studied their memes before, during an after the election and campaign.

Bill Clinton was a toady and water carrier for the Bushes and Stephens group in Arkansas (who were Saudi connected and Bin Laden family connected)

Begala and his sister worked to destroy Gore's campaign from the inside and to plant the meme that "Gore ran a bad campaign" (which originated in the Clinton white house.

Begala was tight with Rove's people (Mark McKinney was Paul Begala's best friend and was Rove's main PR guy --- they all worked together in a major lobbying company and were partners while at the same time supposedly opponents)

I worked on the Hill and was close to some of this action.

The meme that "Gore blew it" started the day after Bush stole the election and came from WITHIN the DLC core propagandist wing and was meant to permanently remove Gore as a threat to the DLC and to the Bushes and rethugs.

I know because I heard it there first.
Never forget Mena airport and the Clinton Bush ties to iran-cocaine-contra as well as to the Stephens group (Saudi backed Arkansas mafia that backed both Bushes and Clinton with Saudi dough)

BTW the Stephens group founder ran the ads attacking Howard Dean for his latte drinking volvo driving supporters.

It was THAT kind of DLC support who made up this meme (right wing fascist money) to have all the blame shifted away from Bush and the SCOTUS (and Clinton) and lay it all on Gore so as to KEEP Gore forever out of the white house.


As far as I'm concerned nader was a spook for the right wing from way back. I worked in one of his PIRG groups. It was like PC Moonies on steroids with no real agenda except to deify nader as a "crusader". What a crock. Nader is just a self-promoting narcissist who cost our country a generation and cost the world millions of lives and a potential to NEVER recover from that damage which Bush II wrought

[No Elephants]

54. I call BS. The only thing Nader helped Gore do was get to the Supreme Court.

The Florida numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000#Florida_recount

With a few more votes that went to Nader, Gore would have landed in the Oval Office instead of in the SCOTUS.