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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:05 AM
Original message
More About the National Hispanic Heritage Month Celebration
Source: Killeen Daily Herald Article and response of duers

Latinos or Hispanic?

Lets remember some historical facts. The Spaniards "conquered and colonized" the "New World" long before the Pilgrims stepped on "the rock". Witness the magnificent engineering forts and residences in Puerto Rico, Cuba, Florida etc. Said structures were built for protection against invading pirates and forces from Great Britian and Holland. At the time, the cartographer Americus Vespuci attempted then to draw maps of the "new land" for which reason they are apelled America, that is the Americas. In Europe, specially in Spain, any one fron South, Central and North America are called "americans".

The first invaders, conquerors and colonizers of the "new world" were from Spain and Portugal. Both countries' official vernacular languages, Portuguese and Spanish were derived from the "vulgar latin" which was imposed by the Roman Empire upon all its conquered territories. Hence the name of the countries in Central and South America that retained the Spanish languages were called Latin America. However, you must consider how many places, cities, streets, mountains in the US have Spanish names like Nevada, California, Florida, Madera, Los Padres Sacramento,etc. etc.

After the Civil Rights were passed in the 60's, the Census Bureau, for purposes of identifying minorities had a group of "movers" whose task was how to define and how to idenfy the Latino minorities. The group was divided. At the time there was a movement for "hispanism" meaning identifying and going back to Spain in all areas... language, culture, arts, etc. These group in my estimation, didn't want to be identified with original natives nor the blacks that had been brought as slaves to the Western Hemisphere. The group won over the advocates of continuing identifying us as Latinos... and thus we became Hispanics... However there have been groups that resisted the trend and the Census Bureau gives now the opportunity of persons identifying themselves as Latinos.

After graduating from the Catholic University of Puerto Rico I lived and worked in the mainland where I was a Latina. After returning to the mainland after a stint in Puerto Rico, I was surprised that I had become a Hispanic. I strongly oppose that nomencloture and identify myself as Latina. I understand Xicano, but I think that the point may be missed...History is a strong factor and we have to choose how we want to be called within its reality. As to the comments about jewish people, some are identified with names in relation to where they went in their diaspora. Those who settled in Spain are called Sheppardic. I hope Xicano reads this and I would love to have his feed back...Actually, any ones feedback. This is a situation very close to my heart.


No link yet.



I really do not have further comments except what I have written in response to comments of other DUers.
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. in northern New Mexico, Hispanic is preferred
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 11:23 AM by mix
and on occasion Chicano is heard, despite contradicting the pure European claims of Hispano. Even though most are mestizo, there is very little recognition of Native American heritage here, the Hispanic cultural ideal is dominant. I think the best explanation for this is the unique colonial history of New Mexico's Hispano population.
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. mix
Were the northern people calling themselves hispanics before the census definitions in the 60? It would be interesting to know. Also, are native americans in New Mexico extinct or do they consider themsels hispanics? Your information is very interesting. Thanks.:wow:
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. New Mexico has a large Native American population...
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 12:17 PM by mix
There are 19 different Pueblos, each with its own language and cultural identity, about 10% of the population out of 2 million. Native American and Hispanic communities share the Catholic faith, but do not have any other cultural ties. These communities are in fact quite segregated.

Hispanics here account for around 40% of the population. Their ancestors began arriving here in the early 1600s, so Hispanic identity is rooted in the colonial period, not merely the effect of government census classifications.

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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. mix
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 12:23 PM by maglatinavi
Wow! Very Interesting! Do they identify themselves as Native Americans? Certainly there are differences in the dynamics of the colonization.
My people also came from Spain to Puerto Rico during the Napolean regime. (They were Liberals. My great grandfather, a physician along with another physician wrote to the US president asking to make Puerto Rico a state of the union. He sort of got his wish with the Treaty of Paris and later when by Congressional Law Puertoricans became American Citizens.)

Until I came to the mainland in the 50's I had no notion about being called Latinos or Hispanics. In the island, if there was a question about our ancestry the answer was Spaniards.
Having lived many years in the East the terms Latino and Hispanic aquired an importance in my thoughts...I then moved to the West and every thing seems diferent... specially in Texas where I reside now. ;)
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Brujas, witchcraft, curanderas are all very much a part of northern NM culture too,
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. brujas
Yo soy bruja, curandera!!!
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I get a kick out of Texican good old boys
Every now and then you'll see some guy on the news or a TV show who is clearly some mix of Mexican and Anglo and talks like a rodeo announcer, Southern Mountain Dialect and no trace of Spanish at all.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. Is this person hispanic, or latino, or neither?

Mother (present, only known parent) is Scots/English
Father (donor, unknown so far other than physical description) is Colombian.
Child speaks little spanish and is a clone of the mother except for a touch of an exotic look when tan due to light hair and green eyes.
Child has been raised completely in the US.
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. imdjh question
Father is Colombian, mother Scotish/English...
It depends how he wants to be identified... I would say Latino. Never never Hispanic. I have known children's parents that when they want to get scholarships offered to Latinos for College, they indentify the children as Latinos. LOL
My nephews have a Texas mother... I have never known if they identify themselves as Latinos or Hispanics. (Their favorite identification is as "Aggies", LOL) My brother is a retired military colonel and one of his sons was born in Panama... He used to say he was a"Panapuertoricanmerican..." His Texas grandmother was of indian heritage and he now has long hair (to his father's chagrin) and uses clothes with native american symbols.

I really am thinking of those of us that are essentially Latinos, although meny children of mixed marriages call themselve or like to be identified as (horror) Hispanics.:dilemma:
My brother used to call his mother in law belonging to the "loud mouth tribe" :rofl:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. The moderators will likely move this thread to General Discussion
as it isn't a news story. Fyi.
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Eferrari
ok, no problem
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Jat Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. More About the National Hispanic Heritage Month Celebration
Who really cares? Other than classifying people by supposed
blood type, it makes no difference. I have grandparents that
came from Europe with Maximilian but so what. They still stuck
their dong into whoever they wanted and here I am. We're all
mutts as far as I'm concerned which is not a bad thing; look
at dogs, the smartest are usually the mutts.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. catholic latino/hispanics brought the deliberate extermination of indigenous ppls nt
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. Yep! but there was difference from their Protestant/anglo counter parts
that they in fact married indigenous people, thats why most of latin america has a mix culture.
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. alphacentauri
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 04:31 AM by maglatinavi
Sorry, you are all wet behind the ears. The Spanish colonizers/conquerors were males... women didn't come from Spain with the "advenurous colonizer conquerors", so they mated with native women. Queen Isabella was identified with the nomenclature of "La Catolica". She was a rabid Catholic that expelled the Jews from Spain that didn't become Xtians. (Many came with the conquerors) She decreed that children of the mating of Spaniards with natives were to be BABTIZED and automatically BECOME SPANISH CITIZENS...That was the beggining of the mixing of the races. It wasn't until much later in time that women came to the so called "New World". And then, mostly came as wives and daughters of men.
It is noticeable that most Natives of the Americas have Spanish names and are very religious. Many syncretized their beliefs/practices. Check the real history of the Guadalupe...:think:
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. you'd said it
Protestant/Anglo colonizers did not recognize any mixture of "races" they did prefer to kept them apart.
Sor Juana wrote about the life of the indigenous people in the church and how they contributed to the development of music, apparently there were not much segregation in the churches like it exist in the protestant church or the Catholic church in the US.
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's "Latinos"
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good post maglatinavi. I enjoyed it very much. +1
I love history, especially pre-colonial history and early American history. I hope you don't mind my adding a little bit of linguistic migration history. :)

Its gonna take some time to type it out. I'll post it as soon as I am finished with it.


Peace,
Xicano

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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. xicano
will love to read it! you can e-mail it to maglatinavi@clearwire.net
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Maglatinavi I just posted it below.
Its post #16. Even though its a bit long, its still just a condensed post on the subject. To type it all would probably be like typing a small book.. :)

Anyway, I hope you enjoy it.


:hi:


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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. Here's some videos I have posted
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 03:49 PM by Xicano
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. Linguistic Migration: Pre-colonial America.
Hi maglatinavi, again I enjoyed your post. Below is some history which leads up to my use of identifying myself with my culture.

In the Great Lakes region of North America was a disperse civilized group of mound builders who worked in metals since BC8000. The family of languages they spoke is referred to as Otomi. Native American Nations often call themselves after the name of the common language they speak. Thus, we can assume this name was related to what this large but certainly not culturally homogenous group called themselves. Over several millennia in many successive waves this group's expansion took them south and east along the Mississippi corridor and branched along the Gulf coast eastward into Florida and southwestward into Meso-America.

In what is now called the southwest of the U.S., a civilization sprawled out over the Great Basin steppe areas. The Nations of this area spoke a common language family called Nahuatl, pronounced Knaw-what-oll which translates, "Four Waters." This may reference the four waters birthplace of Nahuatl, believed to be the Chaco Canyon area of the southwestern U.S.

This language was and continues to be the ancestral root language of the Aztec, Apache, Toltec, Navajo, Shoshone, and Hopi Nations, to name but a few. As the language of commerce, the area of North America that communicated in Nahuatlac derivatives stretched from modern Canada to Panama. The base language can be compared to Latin in that it gave rise to many modern dialects of the same language family. The language itself gave the peoples of its nations a common bond.

Southward in waves, these people were driven by population growth and changing climatic conditions. In what is now called the Monterey coast of California can be found the linguistic beginnings of the Mayan language families. This group moved south down the coast to the Chiapas area and Soconusco river delta then fanned out from there.

The word Mayan may actually be a Nahuatl reference meaning "to be hungry" or "hungry ones." When the Tenochas were at their zenith, the nonolac (non nahuatl speakers) of the Yucatan peninsula were in serious decline after a series of natural disasters. Nobody knows exactly what these native groups called themselves. From the writings found on their momuments, historians have concluded that this was the language spoken by portions of the Quiche, Chiapas Maya, Olmecs, Huastecs, Peten and the Toltec Nations.

Many archaeologists believe that ingrained in these cultures are many customs found among the islands and people of the Pacific rim. The California Mayans traded in jade and were accomplished long-distant seafarers of a maritime tradition. This points to an explanation for what some archeologists see as the Asian, Polynesian, Samoan and New Guinea influence witnessed in "Olmec" artifacts.

From these centers of population density is witnessed an ebb and flow of environmental conditions which periodically imploded and exploded, causing large groups of peoples and nations to move on in search of better circumstances. Often this worsening or bettering of climatic conditions led to either an agonizing, steady decline of the original centers of knowledge and technology. As the demographic cycles of ebb and flow continued in North America, a space was often deserted and re-occupied by different groups or waves from several different native peoples over the course of the last ten thousand years. Only the continuity of language is left to trace the history of their long trek from desperation to success and possible arrogation and then back to desperation.

In this context the stage was set for the emergence of several dominant groups that established the life styles and cultures of the Americas. Before attempting to summarize the 'factual chronology' of the emergence of one of those dominant groups in North America, it is important to examine the meaning behind the name Mexica-Chichimec." Academic research documents, the maintenance and culture use of this name is a reality that has driven the creation of the current portrayal of history. The contemporary term, Chicano, claims its etymological roots in the antiquity of this term.

Mexican words often were contractions of several words. Thus, historically, there are several interpretations of the "me" part of Mexica. One literal translation means "Met'l" (cactus) eater. An explanation for this interpretation comes from the social pecking order of the Nahuatl speaking peoples, wherein the peoples that survived in the northern deserts had to eat cactus in order to stay alive. Life was exceptionally harsh. They were only allowed to participate in the life of the "civilized nations" as mercenaries that fought their ritualistic wars or tip the balance of power between rival dynasties.

The currency of the Mexica was the skill of fighting and expert archery. They became Meso-America's professional killers and pillagers. When prosperity blossomed or the time of war ended, the Mexica-Chichimec were only welcomed as non-resident workers to fill the labor gap in the great metropolitan areas of Teotihuacan, Tula, or Monte Alban. Some things seem to never change, huh?

Other linguists believe that the cactus connection came from the reality that one of the most important plants of Meso-America was the Century Plant, Agave, or Maguey (the cactus from which Tequila is derived). This cactus was the source of nutritious nectar, paper, soap, rope, woven goods, and mescal. This bread and butter was what Mexica called met'l. The met'l bloomed every five years. When it did, the main flower stalk was carved out of the plant center leaving an "olla" or basin in which the sweet, white nectar of the plant collected. To the Native American this "Bowl from the Gods" resembled a full moon.

The "Me" as in "Me-xica" is also the same word for "Me-tzli" which translates "moon" but also means "navel" (i.e. belly button). This meaning put the Mexica in the center or "Heart" of the universe in addition to justifying them as the central focus of their sphere of influence. The believed that Tenochtitlan was the navel of the Valle de Anahuac, the present day Distrito Federal of Mexico. Anahuac or Anahuak is also the ancient Mexican word for what is now referred to as America.

Further delving into the origin of the name Mexica another version exists. In this version the Mexica tag was dropped for the label "Tenocha" after their seer and wise man. According to the Codex Chimalpopoca, the name Mexica was given to Tenoch in a dream. In this dream Tenoch was told by his deity, Huitzilopochtli, pronounced "whit-zi-lo-poch-tli," that he and his people must put their trust in him. With this, the tamimes (bowmen) departed their homeland (Aztlán) and headed south leaving the "peaceful ones" behind.

It was revealed to Tenoch how his people would find the navel of the universe on an island with a large nopal cactus growing from a rock. Sitting on the highest point of the nopal would be a Golden Eagle. On this land he and his people were to establish a new nation and he was to name this place "Mexitli" after one of Huitzilopochtli's earth bound alter egos.

Tenoch found his sign on a small island two miles off the western shore of the great lake in the Valle de Anahuac called Lake Tetzcoco. The icon of Tenoch's vision is the central focus of Mexico's national flag. The legendary site is today called the Zocalo and is the central plaza of Mexico's city. The founding of this capitol in 1318 AD makes this city, called Tenochtitlan (the land of Tenoch) and renamed by Cortez, Mexico, the oldest living, continually occupied city in the Americas. Since roughly two hundred years passed between these two versions, there was probably more than one Tenoch, unless the word "tenoch" was more a religious title.

The second part of Mexica's name "Chichimec" has also undergone several interpretations. Several of the codices state that all nations of the poverty stricken, hungry and desperate people that survived in the North American deserts, regardless of language family, were know as "Chichimec." Depending on who has used the term over the past three thousands years, it has described the full range of ethnic pride, disgust, patriotism, prejudice, love and hate.

At differing times in the cultural development of a people, it has become a broad label for many indigenous peoples and cultures of North America. Neighboring groups have used it simultaneously to mean the "People of the Dirt" and "Children of Mother Earth." The folks labeled "Dirt People" would scrounge a living in the desert.

The Chichimec term has also been used in the context of invader, new arrival, violent, linguistically uncultured and rude, much the way the terms wetbacks, oakies, cholos or hill-billies are used today. It was a term integral to the Nahautl language family. In the Yucatec-Mayan language family, the term was pronounced, "Chichen."

This is how "Chichen-Itza" originated. When the Toltec created the Mayapan confederation in 987 AD, and restored its capital called Itza, the place was then called Chichen-Itza. The builders created a replica in the Yucatan of the Toltec's capitol city Tula (Tolla) in central Mexico.

In Yucatec Mayan, chichen is synonymous with snake. Quetzalcoatl, the serpent with the cloak of iridescent, flowing feathers. This literal translation does not do justice to the strength, enduring gravity of the concept behind this god. Quetzalcoatl was a god of Nahuatl nations. Chichimec also translates to "snake man." The Hopi tribes to this day still do the Snake Dance, in which they invoke prayers into a parcel of captured snakes, then set the snakes free, back into their holes in the ground, to carry their message to the Mother Earth. Hopefully the prayers are heard and the rains will come on schedule.

In turn, when the Mexica pushed into the Toltec Empire, they were the Chichimecs. At this point in their historical development the Mexica were proud of the term and made groups who spat on it pay for the indignity with severe consequences. But like so many groups, who had relocated southward before them, the Mexica tried to discount their lean moments and exalt their noble character by casting off the term and labeling their detractors in kind.

The poor fortunes of the Mexica's ancestors were due to major climate changes in North America (Aztlán). Some historians have demonstrated that they were probably the last to leave Pueblo Bonito (Beautiful Town) in modern day New Mexico. This proposes that they were the first to arrive in the Colorado area. Only the Hopi (peaceful people) stayed behind, protected from the danger and heat, on their elevated mesas.

In this context, Chichimec alludes to the concept of "survivor." The competition for survival was fierce since the south was already populated with Olmec and Otomi speakers. The northern big game and plains hunters brought the long bow and arrow along in their bag of cultural artifacts. While the southern areas of North America also had those tools, they had not developed them to the degree that the Chichimec had.

From the enemies of the Tenochas, the Spaniards picked up the "Son of a Female Dog" context for the term, forgetting that to the Nahua speaking peoples this concept also meant that one was a child of Xochichilintz. Mother Earth or Xochichilintz, was often portrayed in the iconic form of a pregnant Chihuahua dog with many milk-laden breasts. In this form, the Mexica intended "Chichimec" to mean "Children of this Earth" or "Lineage of Xochichilintz."

As the Spaniards applied Chichimec the term came to represent, in the European context, "dirty, low down, lying, cheating, deceitful, stupid Indian." The acts of a person, labeled in this manner by the Spaniards in America, committed a "chicaneria." This word maintains its derogatory connotation in the English translation: chicanery. Thus, the term went from one of native pride and origin, to a racist slight to be avoided. Recently, those of us with long native roots on this continent have adopted the modern word: "Chicano" (Xicano), from the indigenous traditions.


There's lots more I can get into with pre-colonial American history, but, my fingers are sore from typing.. :)

I hope you all enjoy or find it interesting...



Peace,
Xicano
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. xicano
I have problrms with this friging pc and don't know how to copy
please email. Thanks. Very interesting... there is so much to know...
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Will do Maglatinavi
I am gonna have to use my hotmail account. I too was recently having problems with my PC so I just reinstalled windows and haven't set up my regular email accounts yet.

You should receive a email in a few moments.


:hi:
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. Here's some excerpts of letters from Cortez, Diaz and Friar Motolinia
"It's Lord or Chief has some new houses which, though still unfinished, are as good as the best in Spain; I mean as large and well constructed, not only in stonework but also in woodwork, and all arrangements for every kind of household service, all except the carved relief work and other rich details with are used in Spanish houses but not found here. There are both upper and lower rooms and very refreshing gardens with many trees and sweet scented flowers, and bathing places of fresh water, well constructed and having steps leading to the bottom. He also has a large orchard near the house, overlooked by a high terrace with many beautiful corridors and rooms. Within the orchard is a great square pool of fresh water, very well constructed, with sides of handsome masonry, around which runs a walk with well-laid pavement of tiles, so wide that four persons can walk abreast on it, and 400 paces square, making in all 600 paces. On the other side of the promenade toward the wall of the garden are hedges of lattice work of cane, behind which are all sorts of plantations of trees and aromatic herbs. The pool contained many fish and different kinds of waterfowl."

-- Hernan Cortez, describing Ixtapalapan 1520



"When Captain Sandoval found himself free from that struggle, he gave thanks to God and went to rest and sleep at an orchard within the town, which was so beautiful and contained so many fine buildings that it was the best worth beholding of anything we had seen in New Spain. There were so many things in it to look at that was really wonderful and was certainly the orchard of a great prince, and they could not go all through it then, for it was more than a quarter of a league in length."

-- Bernal Diaz, describing Oaxtepac



"The Indians have built many almshouses where they care for the sick and poor, for out of their own poverty they provide abundantly for them. As there are many Indians, even though they give very little "many littles make a mickle," and all the more if that giving is continuous, so that the hospitals are well provided for. Since they know how to serve as if they were born to it, they lack nothing; and from time to time they go through the whole province in search of sick people. They have their own doctors, experienced natives who know how to apply many herbs and medicines, and this suffices for them. Some of these doctors are so experienced that they have cured many serious and long-standing illnesses which Spaniards had suffered for many days without finding a remedy."

-- Friar Toribio Motolinia 1537



"Of the two occasions on which I was on the estuary that I speak of, one was in the afternoon of a clear, calm day, and in truth I went along open mouthed looking at that 'pool of God.' I saw how trifling are man's affairs and the buildings and pools of the great princes and lords of Spain, and how everything is counterfeit, ...and on this they base their happiness. Let them consider, and come here, for here they will find it all together, made by the hand of God, without toil or trouble; all of which invites one to give thanks to Him who made the springs and brooks and everything else in the world, created with such beauty, and for the service of men."

-- Friar Toribio Motolinia 1537



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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. xicano
Thanks, received everything and sent e-mail...One issue that fascinates me is the Guadalupe leyend and its native religious meanings or facts. I understand that the place where the apparition ocurred was (is?) a sacred place for the indigenous people. I also wonder why the mex have a snake (although with feathers) as their god. Supposedly what the apparition said to Diego was that "she who will squash the head of the snake..." I recently found an article that interprets the message as the Spanish conquest squashing the SNAKE GOD... interesting...
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I have some video I'll post later on the subject of Meso-American creation myths.
I'll post the links here and give you a heads up in your email when I get them posted.

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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. xicano
Thanks a lot... I am really interested ... I have been a student of esoteric beliefs and am amazed at how everuthing is really ONE... DO YOU HAVE ANY INFO ON THE PERUVIAN MOUNTAIN SIGNALS/ARTS/WHAT EVER??? i AM FASCINATED WITH THEM...cANN'T REMEMBER OFF HAND THE NAME OF THE MTS. I THINK THEY ARE IN THE AREA OF MICHU PICHU... MV :HI:
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Maglatinavi
I'll be a bit busy today and it takes a bit of time to process video. It'll probably be tomorrow when I have the links ready. As for the signals you mentioned. I am sorry but no I am not familiar with those, although I too am fascinated with the metaphysical and shamanism.

I'll let you know when the two videos are ready. Also, you might enjoy some recent photos I took regarding native history.

Here's a couple of links. In the Valley of Fire photos I am the one in the dark brown shirt.


http://members.cox.net/xiupohualli/meso_america.htm

http://members.cox.net/the-popol-vuh/valley-of-fire.htm


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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Ok, sorry for the wait. Here's them two videos.
The first one is the Maya creation myth and the second one is the Mexican version of creation myth.


http://picasaweb.google.com/Xicano420/Mexica#5386775384859804786

http://picasaweb.google.com/Xicano420/Mexica#5386704947694926690



Peace,
Xicano
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. I've never understood the label "hispanic"
as a race. My grandmother was from Spain and she looked white and identified culturally with other "white" people in this country.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Did you ever hear about the term Ibero-Americano or Criollo?
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. celeborn ...
She looked white? No kidding! She was white, period. What makes you think that people from Spain are not white???:eyes:
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Yes, I understand that.
But people always would tell her that she's not white but "hispanic".
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
35. National Hispanic Heritage Month Misinformation
Source: Killen Daily News Herald, Killeen, Texas

In an article about the National Hispanic Heritage Month activity, the reporter covering an event in Killeen, Texas, apparently received the following misinformation: the National Law Proclaing the Month and the Presidential Proclamation, 'celebrates the American influence in the Spanish speaking Nations in the Western Hemisphere; all the way down to Argentina and the Caribbean; their culture, etc....' It is impossible to believe that such misinformation could be published in a Daily Newspaper in a place where there is a strong number of Latino residents.

The article is specially an affront to the many Latino soldiers that have laid their lives and shed their blood in all the US war theaters after the founding of the nation. Killeen is a miltary town; with Fort Hood, the largest military base in the country. Many of the veterans of the military have retired in the city.

The real purpose of the LAW is to recognize the contributions of Spain and Latinos in the development and endeavours of the Nation. It is important to note that the King of Spain declared war to Great Britian during the American Revolution and helped to weaken the British naval forces. At the time on his kingdom; the sun never set, so expansive it was and so was his power. . The Spanish Governor of the Luoisiana, Florida, Texas, etc. Spanish colony, Governor Galves was also meaningful in the defeat of British forces, helping to strengthen the revolutionary forces. The town of Galvestown in Texas is named after him and a statue of him has been erected in Washington, D. C.. It is asserted that after the war, George Washington wrote to the King of Spain thanking him for his support.

Latinos in the Nation have contributed to the nation in all aspects and endeavours. That is why originally the Law declaring the month from September 15 to October 16 as the Natinal Hispanic Heritage Month was passed by Congress in 1998. All Presidents since have Proclaimed the month and directed all government and civic organizations to celebrate the month, specially giving emphasis to education about the historical facts and the life long contributions of Hispanics to the Nation.

No link yet.



I am really very upset that such ridiculous information has been published. The reporter has apologized about the error. Obviously some ignoramus gave him the information and unfortunately with date lines to meet he didin't have time to do some research. Since we are still during the span of the celebratory month I wish all democrats and readers to be aware of the truth and making them aware of such misinformation in other parts of the country so they can be corrected.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. WTF? A holiday to celebrate the U.S. interventions in Central and South America?
Mama mia!
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. McCamy
I am sorry that you just didn't get it... sad ...:sad:
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. I think he or she was joking
It is apparent to me that the poster not only got it, but pointed out how ridiculous such a premise is.
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. I myself do not like being referred to as hispanic or latino.
maglatinavi, I know you're just using the terms that we see everyday and nothing is meant by it. This complaint has nothing to do with you or this post. This post is fine and I enjoyed reading the points you made. +1 K&R.

The thing I dislike is the use of the terms hispanic and latino for people who are mostly not hispanic or latino. Myself, for example, am mostly Mexican (Chichimec to be exact) with a good amount of Mescalero Apache. I think the proper term(s) which should be used are Mexican, Mexican American, Chicano (Xicano is better), Native, or by the cultural names who people are such as Mayan, Zapotec, etc.

Mestizo which is a term identifying our native blood mixed with European blood is a correct term in that sense. However, I object to that term too because I still see it as I see the terms hispanic (spaniard) and latino (southern european). In my opinion they are eurocentric terms as leftovers from a time when our cultures were trying to be erased. Nobody else that I can think of has these types of terms for them. For example: most Jewish folks are mixed with lots of other blood, but, they are still referred to as Jewish. There's no Mestizo type name or other names referencing a European culture. Same with, say, Malcolm X. He had some European blood in him too, but, there are no other name to describe him other than African, African American or Black. No names to reference the mixed blood in him either.

So my point in bringing this up is nothing against European cultures, its just to bring awareness that our brown skin doesn't come from Europe even though many of us have some European blood in us. In that respect we're no different than people of African descent or Jewish descent, etc. and I just want to see our cultural afforded the same regard as with other cultures.



Peace,
Xicano
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Thanks for this good info
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Thanks above all for the civility with which you made your point, as opposed to
somebody recently (although several over the years) who lambasted over the same point. One went so far as to froth against soap operas in Spanish because they were cast with "White Europeans."

I say this is another area made for Big Umbrellas.
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. utusun
Like wise for your kind response. The truth is that most people do not understand the reason (raison d'etre") of the terms Hispanic and Latino. I'll try to explain in another write up. You maybe will be surprised.:hi:
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. xicano
Your point is very interesting and coincides with some of my gripes. Before going further into it, isn't the xicano word referring to Chicago?
I am strongly against using the appellation of Hispanic. I'll try to explain in a new write up. Thanks for your response. By the way, I am new on the thread ....what does KR means?
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. K&R = Kick & Recommend. :^)
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 02:36 PM by Xicano
As for Xicano? Please allow me to cite a little bit of history which is one of my favorite topics.

The people who are romantically remembered by many as the "Aztec," were originally known as Mexica, pronounced may-she-ka. When the post-invasion scribes wrote down for the Spanish Royal Court, the phonic representation of an American native word, in Spanish alphabetic pronunciation, an "X" was used for (unknown) to denote a "sh" sound (as in Chevron). Since there were so many native words translated into Latin text with this sound, Spanish scholars first placed an "X" where the sound was enunciated then later actually grafted the letter "Che" behind the "C" in the Spanish alphabet, for this "sh" sound. Thus, we have Mechica (Mexica), Mechican (Mexican), Mechicano (Mexicano) and Chicano (Xicano).



Peace,
Xicano

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. King of Spain declared war to Great Britian during the American Revolution
As though they did that out of altruism.

They wanted Florida back, and to strike back after some setbacks at British hands. And, as part of the peace treaty, they got it back--ample reward, and their goal. Anything that weakened Britain was good for Spain and France, but let's not think that the people in the colonies were actually an important consideration.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. The law uses the term "American" to denote ALL the Americas
It's a misunderstanding that the United States is the only America, and from LBJ down this month long celebration was aimed at this entire side of the globe.
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. marshall,
I think you didn't get it either... I'll try to explain in another write up, it is late, I am tired...and I need to perk up ...LOL! :applause:
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Link to the article
http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=35921&q=hispanic+heritage+month

The quoted section is in the last paragraph. My point is that the term "American" has been co-opted to refer just to the United States. In my travels through South and Central America I have encountered people who are using the term in its true sense--to refer not just to the United States but also to their countries, people, and cultures.

Since the writer uses the term in the same paragraph that he uses the phrase "United States territory of Puerto Rico" (rather than "American territory of Puerto Rico") one could interpret that he is not uses the terms synonymously.

I would like to see writers in articles like this, as well as others, use the term American in a way that gives the term back to its true meaning.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
47. No surprise that the emphasis is to depict latin america needing a babysitter n/t
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. alphacentauri
Edited on Wed Sep-30-09 01:23 PM by maglatinavi
You are so frigging right... I would like the author to read your comment... For reasons I don't know nor understans, the news paper system rejects my cybernetic mails ...I am not literate on these ... I just write... out of necessity when I got a job to do a translation ... :thumbsup:
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