Christian Cowards: Why Don't Evangelical Leaders Condemn the Hate Spouted by Right-Wingers?

[marmar]

Christian Cowards: Why Don't Evangelical Leaders Condemn the Hate Spouted by Right-Wingers?

By Frank Schaeffer, AlterNet. Posted December 1, 2009.

Since when does loving Jesus mean you have to hate our President? Prominent Christians should denounce the violently aggressive language right-wingers use to tear down Obama.



On Sunday, November 29, NBC's "Meet the Press" flunked their interview with Pastor Rick Warren, world famous author of "The Purpose Driven Life." They didn't ask the one burning question with historic implications of national importance they should have asked: Pastor Rick, why haven't you and other prominent evangelical leaders taken the lead in strongly condemning the hate directed at President Obama by the Religious Right and so many evangelical Christians who form the base of the Republican Party?

A week before Warren was interviewed on NBC Franklin Graham -- another mainstream evangelical leader (son and heir to Billy Graham) -- stood next to Sarah Palin on her book tour having loaned her a plane belonging to an organization he heads up so that she could join him and his dad Billy for dinner. Then Billy Graham released an effusive statement of support for Palin after that meeting. Again, where was the Question from the Grahams: Governor Palin why did you lend your voice to the hateful lie that if the President's health care reform were to pass it would result in "death panels"?

There will always be hate-filled nuts on the fringe of any movement; left, right, religious or secular. No one in leadership should be blamed for their fringe -- unless they don't speak up. Post "Tea Parties", "Obama isn't a real American", and all the rest it is strange and disturbing to witness the silence of the evangelical leadership in the light of so much venom directed against our President by a largely evangelical Republican base.

This is shocking to me, given that for much of my life I was not just the son of a famous evangelical leader (Francis Schaeffer -- "credited" by Max Blumenthal and others as a founder of the religious right) but for a time I was also his sidekick and a leader in the evangelical world in my own right. I quit over the slide of the religious right into extremism. That said I'm still a believing Christian (non-evangelical and progressive) and to see the name of Christ used to promote hate outrages me. To see the Bible used as a political bumper sticker source (for whatever "side") is an affront. ..........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/story/144263/christian_cowards%3A_why_don%27t_evangelical_leaders_condemn_the_hate_spouted_by_right-wingers

[CurtEastPoint]

1. Bottom line.... follow the money.

It's ALWAYS about the bucks. Say the wrong thing and your flock will stop giving.

[Uben]

6. Of course its about money.....

...today, religion is solely about money...where to get it, how best to spend it to make more, and What to say to keep it coming.
A lot of us once believed, but that belief has been washed away with the political aspirations of religious organizations, which are supposedly illegal. Anyone with half a brain can come to that conclusion just by following the news, but so many refuse to read something that contradicts their beliefs, whether it is true or not.

[rurallib]

8. One reason to admire Frank Schaeffer. He walkied away from the money

No doubt he could have been rolling in the major bucks promoting the hate.

[HillWilliam]

33. You got that right

My great-aunt and my mother's best friend in high-school (with whom she's still in contact) both worked in Billy Graham's office waaaaaayyyy-back-when, when he was nobody. My first-cousins-once-removed all knew that family very, very well. All Billy ever talked about -- and I mean ALL he ever talked about -- was how rich he was going to be and all the stuff he was going to have. Look up the words "crook" and "hypocrite" in the dictionary and you'll find his likeness right there. Look up the word "snake" and you'll find Franklin's picture. There's not one single, solitary thing they do or say that doesn't have a profit-motive in it somewhere.

[juno jones]

2. The evangelical leaders are up to their eyeballs in hate.

Rick Warren has a hell of a beam in his eye, if you know what I mean.

Hate is good for their buisness. It tends to reduce critical thinking and promote cult-think which in turn brings in money for the cult leaders like Warren. Cha-ching, cha-ching.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

3. I've wondered that too.

The first poster to say that "they're not real Christians" is officially an idiot. Notice there's no edit in this post, and it was posted before the idiocy, so you can't say it's a PA.

[Dogtown]

18. Post #11

Seems to be your winner, CPD. Should Harry Monroe of Starkville Mississippi be expecting that Broken Toaster by UPS or FedEx?



:rofl:

[Harry Monroe]

29. "Just send cheese"

If you're a fan of "My Name Is Earl" you'll get the joke and my moniker!!

[Stargazer99]

4. Evangelicals have sold their souls

to the RW for the power to shove their religious views down everyone's throat. and they wonder why they are viewed with disgust!!!

[Igel]

21. Many evangelicals are on the left.

Oh. I guess those are redefined as what? Levangelicals? Levo-evangelics? L-evangelicals? (But do we really want to reduce them to the status of enantiomers?)

[Dogtown]

31. No, we just don't want to know.

Seriously. Religious belief in itself is harmless, even fervent belief.

Religion mixed with politics is ALWAYS a very bad thing. If Evangelical keep their religion out of politics, they're more than welcome here (as far as I'm concerned, that is).


You'll find little criticism of President Jimmy Carter from me, for example. He never wept publicly about the War on Christmas nor did he claim that the US is a Christian nation founded on the 10 Commandments.

Evangelicals are still not welcome knocking on my front door, however. Even JC.

[Stargazer99]

5. Evangelicals have sold their souls

to the RW for the power to shove their religious views down everyone's throat. and they wonder why they are viewed with disgust!!!

[Joanne98]

7. Because they're evil heretics!

[Buzz Clik]

9. Just curious... does Frank Schaeffer condemn the hate leveled by left wingers against Christians?

Fair is fair. He asked, I asked.

[Dogtown]

16. Ah, the "Defence of Christmas" Militia shows up.

Sorry for the recent death in the family, Buzzie.

:cry:

[Buzz Clik]

19. I suppose there's an insult in there, but I don't get it. Sorry.

It isn't as effective when you have to explain it.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Buzz Clik]

26. More insults. I get this one.

Unfortunately, your insults spring from ignorance and demean only you.

What does one have to do to qualify as a "Xian"? Go to church? (I do not.) Believe that Jeebus is your savior? (I do not.) Damn. Seems as though you are way off track.

Try to keep in mind that hateful behavior is considered bad form even among non-Christians.

[Dogtown]

28. "I'm a fervent Catholic

and attend Mass every day."

Perhaps your mother could verify your statements. Besides, I never claimed that you're Christian. I claimed (based on your post history, not your attendance at church) that you're a Xian Apologist, ie, you frequently show up to oppose criticism of Christianity.

Could be you just like to pick fights and think that atheists are easy to set off. Could be you're a real-life DU Zorro, protecting the poor downtrodden Xians.

Could be you like to create dissent by driving wedge issues.

Or maybe you're just a dick.

:shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

32. Could be, I suppose.

I get the feeling you don't give a shit one way or another. You'll attack anyone who gets in your way.

Works for me. Shall we carry on?

[Dogtown]

34. My agenda is a bit more succinct.

If a disruptor is wasting time on me, then others can continue with rational discussion.

*That* works for me.

[Buzz Clik]

35. A humanitarian. How touching.

For what it's worth:

• This discussion was irrational from the outset.
  
• I've spent no more than 2 minutes on this thread.

At least you have a sense of purpose, and I'm happy to contribute to that.

[Dogtown]

37. Equal to

the sense of purpose I derive from applying Front-line to my cat's neck.

To further the analogy, the fleas always reappear.

[Buzz Clik]

43. Slide back up and look at the post to which you responded. Ironic, isn't it?

I commented about how hateful some on the left can be to Christians, and you immediately launched into a tirade of hate.

:applause:

Thank you for making my point for me.

[Dogtown]

44. Oh, I don't hate you, Buzz Clik.

Try not to be so sensitive. I hate to see grown-ups weep, it's unseemly.

[snake in the grass]

40. I don't know about left wingers, but...

...he is very critical of what he calls fundamentalist atheism.

Here's an http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/11/frank_schaeffer_throws_the_ath.php">article on his views. There's also an interview(the relevant part begins at 1m15s).

[uberllama42]

48. Where's all this anti-Christian hate you keep talking about?

Granted I'm not on this board very much anymore, but I never witness this alleged hatred of Christians. There's plenty of bile spewed at people who happen to be Christians, some of whom are vocal about Christianity, but that isn't the same as bigotry against Christians as a group.

I keep reading you accusing people of being hateful, but I just don't see it. What am I missing?

I'm not talking about one or two ugly comments, either. Where's the chilling effect--Christians who are afraid or unable to practice their faith? Where's the discrimination? Has anyone opened a restaurant and refused to serve Christians? Especially a leftist, since that's your accusation?

Has anyone bought a billboard telling Christians they're wicked? Has anyone run for office--not even an atheist, let's talk about a Jew or a Muslim or a Wiccan--on an explicitly anti-Christian platform? Am I just so blind that I don't see these things going on?

[Warpy]

57. Some Christians have such an overdeveloped martyrdom complex

that they mine the Atheist & Agnostic group daily for new reasons to feel persecuted.

Faith in their case requires perfect consensus. Anything less than that is persecution in their eyes.

I feel very sorry for them. Oh, I'll still call them on it, but I do pity them.

[uberllama42]

58. I'm not often disappointed when I read your posts, Warpy

But I was so hoping that Buzz Clik was going to respond. Oh, well.

I agree with you entirely.

[Warpy]

59. He might know better by now

then again, the night is young.

[donco6]

49. The old false equivalency non-argument.

Schaeffer is condemning Warren for not speaking out against a law being supported by his buddies in Uganda which calls for the execution of gay people.

So, where is the country that has passed a law calling for the execution of Christians? I'll speak up against it now.

[Andronex]

53. Ironic isn't it...

It's a hatefest everyday at DU at anybody who disagrees with our war president.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. What hate?

[OHdem10]

10. Could it be that some :"Christians" share these bigotted beliefs:???

There are Evangelicals and there are Evangelicals(Fundies).

The Media has permitted them to crawl under the same umbrella.

[Harry Monroe]

11. Um, that's an easy one. They're "CINO's"!!

"Christians In Name Only" The "Christ" they follow is not the Christ that I know!!

[Raster]

12. I call them "buffet Christians," able to pick and choose what tenets of Christianity

to embrace and what to discard.

[Dogtown]

17. See Post #3....

CPD, I think you have a winner!

:applause:

[donco6]

50. Yep.

Not a real scotsman, indeed.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. Clarifying what Dogtown said: drag the mouse over post #3 to select the invisible text. -nt

[Dogmudgeon]

13. Some do.

Most don't.

Sad. Warren has actually done a few decent things in his life; so has Mike Huckabee. But now, they are eager to remain in the whorehouse.

The rank-and-file Fundies have been splitting since around 1990, and I think that the split will accelerate soon. But it's still a movement being driven by Mammon.

--d!

[Bluenorthwest]

14. Some of DU's 'real Christians' have explained to me

that they do not speak out because it is 'too hard' and the extremists do not willingly listen, so they gave up long ago. This is why they say it is fine for them to let the nutters speak for them. Why they allow Phelps to show up without any 'faith based' response to his hate. Why they let their 'siblings in Christ' threaten everyone from the gay community to the President, without so much as a raised eyebrow.
I love Frank because he is not letting himself off the hook and he is attempting to be accountable for what his faith is bringing to the world. 99.9% of the faith community should take his example to heart.

[gordianot]

15. I always wonder if the nice Jewish boy from the country suspected what he started.

If he did come back as a mortal he would not last a week. He would definitely need super powers.

[StarfarerBill]

20. Um, because many of them share that hate?

[Buzz Clik]

36. Some do, some don't. Some religious people simply choose to keep their religion out of politics.

Stunning concept.

[StarfarerBill]

38. I don't see how speaking out against hate is political, per se...

...especially when that hate is often spouted in the name of their god.

[Gman2]

24. Letz get down to specifics. Why dont holy men have to answer for the cop killer?

The thug feigned christian conversion. He used that positioning, to sway Huckabee. He, being evangelical. The thug skated on a ruse.

Why dont our holy men have to sit on the hotseat? How is this secret society allowed to make choices for us, that we would not choose?

I have a problem with all this. And I am Christian!

[Buzz Clik]

27. The only "holy man" that has to answer to this is the one who signed his release.

[era veteran]

25. What happened to the church I grew up in?

I haven't been a church person for almost 40 years. I left because I figured out it was superstitious bullshit, but at least then they ministered to the poor. Now the mega churches are building gyms,pools, and other worldly things. These churches want your money for shit like this. If you can't tithe enough they will ask you to move on to a more suitable church for your economic situation. Organized religion can kiss my ass. Christians my ass. Gated communities for Jesus. TAX all churches now.

[K8-EEE]

30. Christianity is NOT a "loving religion"

It is only if you choose to ignore the more bigotted crazy of the Mean Angry God in the bible. Bible God routinely went on temper tantrums such as drowning the world because a few of the people in it had sex he didn't approve of or punishing everyone forever over a piece of fruit. I wish people would stop acting like it's the be-all of lovingness when if you take it literally it's as bad as any fundie religion out there.

[mwb970]

51. Not to mention the effects of worshipping a martyr.

Today's poor, poor Christians battle fiercely to "out-victim" each other. ("I'm persecuted!" "No, I'm persecuted!") as if they were showing off their props to their Victim-In-Chief.

It's unseemly, to say the least.

[winyanstaz]

39. Because they are hate-mongering bastards and not real followers of Christ...

Real Christians need to speak out and clean house.

[noel711]

41. Well... here we go again...

YOu got your "EEEEEEEEEEEvangelical ~@#$*CHRISTIANS!!!*$#@~"

Who go about prancing and bragging and condemning everyone and
everything that disagrees with their pharisaical idiocy....

and you have your nondescript evangelical (which simply and literally
means 'telling the good news') christians who go about helping,
feeding, clothing, healing, and minding their own business.

And.. how does anyone know for sure that those nondescript types
DON'T condemn hatefulness of the other stripe?

Because I sure do condemn them! And the progressive christians I hang out
with sure do condemn them... but no one really seems to care-

Nobody's interested in middle aged feminist pastors.
We don't have the clout of the patriarchal types,
nor do we have the glitz of the palinistas.
No news crews follow me around.
But I don't care... I like anonymity.
Just go about my business... in a subversive kinda way.
No I'm not like the big deal types...
because I think Jesus wasn't a big deal kinda guy...

[TrogL]

52. Because it's the Evangelicals pushing a dumbed-down make-up-your-own version of Christianity

...and preaching out of the NIV, the Freeper translation of the Bible.

[noel711]

55. That's true... Think...? It's out of the question...

They believe the Bible came gift wrapped,
as it floated down from heaven, from the pen of God.

There's no conception of history, of the oral/written tradition,
nor about language translation, no hermeneutics of interpretation-

and heaven forbid.. the possibility that most of the
scripture just ain't true! Awwwwk! Sacrilege!

[Zoeisright]

42. Because that's how they feel.

They are full of hate - that's their main drive. Why would they condemn what they believe and feel?

[Crabitha]

45. Because like any other religious extremists, Christian extremists are

animated by hate and love to hate and judge. They are no different than the Islamic extremists they hate.

[TrogL]

46. Why don't mainline liturgical churches challenge the heresy of Evangelical churches

[noel711]

54. Challenge them? All the time...

Some 'mainliners' don't want to offend,

But I've been damned as a heretic, and apostate many times.

I'm in good company..

It's just that we don't make good 'copy' in the media.

We progressive mainliners are pretty boring, in their eyes.

[JohnWxy]

47. I long for the good ol' days when ignorance wasn't considered a political position - link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=197263

[SharksBreath]

56. If they didn't hate who would Jesus have to love.

[JonQ]

60. I'm curious how a "why don't more muslim leaders speak out against islamic hate" thread would go

Actually, no, I'm not. I know exactly how it would go.

Agnostic, before anyone starts making accusations, I am weary of fanatics of all stripes, christians, muslims, jews and so on. I would like to see some more balance on here though.

[noel711]

61. Liberal pastors don't say anything? Read this story...

The story posted at DailyKos

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/4/810779/-Ministers-confront-Glenn-Beck-outside-his-Christmas-stage-show-(VideoPhotos)

[TrogL]

62. kewl!!

That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see more of.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. But they won't get nationwide TV coverage, because they don't fit in with

the corporate agenda of keeping people mean and dumb.