Rand Paul and the Civil Rights Act: Was he right?

[BridgeTheGap]

(I've been participating in debates on this issue and am interested in getting feedback on this from DUers. I don't support Paul but I'm not sure that he's a racist either. Of course, there are many who are racist and don't know it themselves. The writer of this op-ed is a libertarian. I tend to be of the belief that if you have business that is "open to the public," you can't control who walks through the door. I also believe that government actions often come on the heels of movements, i.e. the civil rights and anti-war movements. btg)
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Fresh from his victory in last week’s Kentucky Republican senatorial primary, Rand Paul found himself caught in a whirlwind when MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow asked whether the 1964 Civil Rights Act properly outlawed racial segregation at privately owned lunch counters. Speaking circuitously if not evasively, Mr. Paul finally said:

“ne of the things freedom requires is that we allow people to be boorish and uncivilized. But that doesn’t mean we approve of it.”

So although he supports striking down segregationist state Jim Crow laws, he objected to Title II of the Act, outlawing racial discrimination in “public accommodations.” “Had I been around I would have tried to modify that,” he said.

However, after a torrent of media and blogospheric criticism, he changed course, telling CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, “I would have voted yes…. I think that there was an overriding problem in the South, so big that it did require federal intervention in the sixties.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/0526/Rand-Paul-and-the-Civil-Rights-Act-Was-he-right

[WCGreen]

1. It's very simple, if you offer your services to the public at large...

you have to services the public at large. That includes anyone who comes through your doors...

One of the reasons the Augusta Country Club where the Masters is played can discriminate on who can be a member is because it is a private club.

There are all sorts of country clubs that still do not allow women to be full members.

All of this has pretty much changed because of public scrutiny and bad publicity.

But if you offer your business to the public, you cannot refuse to serve anyone on the basis of race, color or creed.

[mdmc]

2. Yet somehow I should be able to open a walk in cafe in a historic building

I would love to open a cafe in a 4 story walkup. The cafe would be on the first floor, but the only way in would be to walk up six stairs from the sidewalk.

It would be a shame to not be able to open up this cafe because there are stairs and it is not wheelchair assessable..

[WCGreen]

5. If you want to open a cafe in an historic building, you know this going in

so that just becomes a cost of doing business...

[mdmc]

6. no I wouldn't be able to put a ramp or an elevator in

I wouldn't be able to open the business.. such is life.. I would need to find a new spot..

[WCGreen]

7. That is a barrier to doing business in an historic building...

You probably could work it out by charging a bit more, as most businesses in historic buildings do, and spread the cost out over say five years.

It's a cost that is known going in.

[mdmc]

9. no changes to the building are allowed - it is protected..

It was once a bar back in the day - workers from the manufacturing plants would eat lunch there and have a beer on their way home.
It closed in the 70's when all the factories closed.

[Demit]

8. A historical-looking ramp? Historical buildings all over are modifying for accessibility.

Of course, it depends on the building's owner wanting your cafe. If he does, he'll look into what is required & what is allowed:

"...Under Title III of the ADA, owners of "public accommodations" (theaters, restaurants, retail shops, private museums) must make "readily achievable" changes; that is, changes that can be easily accomplished without much expense. This might mean installing a ramp, creating accessible parking, adding grab bars in bathrooms, or modifying door hardware. The requirement to remove barriers when it is "readily achievable" is an ongoing responsibility. When alterations, including restoration and rehabilitation work, are made, specific accessibility requirements are triggered.

Recognizing the national interest in preserving historic properties, Congress established alternative requirements for properties that cannot be made accessible without "threatening or destroying" their significance. A consultation process is outlined in the ADA's Accessibility Guidelines for owners of historic properties who believe that making specific accessibility modifications would "threaten or destroy" the significance of their property. In these situations, after consulting with persons with disabilities and disability organizations, building owners should contact the State Historic Preservation Officer (SHPO) to determine if the special accessibility provisions for historic properties may be used. ..."

http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/tps/briefs/brief32.htm

[mdmc]

10. Newburgh NY has one of the biggest historic districts in the country

lots of history in the city..

Thanks for the link..

[Zynx]

3. No. Flatly, no.

Even if some of the efforts to integrate various aspects of southern society would have been successful in the long run, why should a people being discriminated against have to wait another generation or longer to see justice? Just because it makes the bigots in power uncomfortable? That seems to be the logic presented.

Libertarians have the strange view that you don't need government to safeguard hated minorities from the savagery of mainstream society. I don't know how a respectable person can actually hold this view. The fact that you can look at a group being oppressed and tell them that they have to go through utter hell just to be accepted strikes me as barbaric. Rand Paul's position is not respectable.

[ejpoeta]

4. i think blacks especially needed the government to step in because they

were being intimidated just for trying to register to vote! i mean, how can the african americans change things if they can't even vote without being threatened!!

[Zynx]

11. Exactly. I don't view it as ever being a government intrusion to preserve voting rights.

The same goes for ensuring that people have adequate opportunity to have a meaningful economic existence. Because of fundamental decisions we have made as a society, money does equal political power. If you can't get hired due to discrimination, that's an impediment to your political power as well.

[rurallib]

12. I think he learned his racist ways first and how to twist thenarrative to fit

the views late. You know - fix the intelligence to fit the policy?
Oddly, I hear a lot of that from Republicans.
Republicans continue to rewrite and twist history to fit their narrative.
I have recently learned that America was founded on Christian ideals. New to me and unsupported by them 'old' histories.

[rocktivity]

13. You don't exercise freedom by keeping it from someone else.

Starting in Greensboro, North Carolina, in 1960, lunch counters throughout the South began to be desegregated through direct but peaceful confrontation – sit-ins – staged by courageous students and others...Four years before the Civil Rights Act passed, lunch counters in downtown Nashville were integrated within four months of the launch of the Nashville Student Movement’s sit-in campaign...

Why is this inspirational history ignored in the current controversy? I can think of only one reason. So-called progressives at heart are elitists who believe – and want you to believe – that nothing good happens without government.

It's the author's pejorative use of "elitism" that gives him away. I'm sure he'd take offense at being called an "elitist" who believes that freedom and equality should be doled out like penny candy or held in reserve until you're mature enough, like a driver's license.

So the answer to America's race problem was to simply "wait it out?" It's government's FUNCTION to enforce a "good" social order!

:headbang:
rocktivity

[dbmk]

14. I think I would accept it

..if the people having such rules in their place of business had to have it tatooed on their forehead - so I could recognise them.