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"Torture Is a Crime, Not a Secret" (NYT Editorial on Torture Secrets Ruling)

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 10:23 PM
Original message
"Torture Is a Crime, Not a Secret" (NYT Editorial on Torture Secrets Ruling)
September 8, 2010
Torture Is a Crime, Not a Secret

Five men who say the Bush administration sent them to other countries to be tortured had a chance to be the first ones to have torture claims heard in court. But because the Obama administration decided to adopt the Bush administration’s claim that hearing the case would divulge state secrets, the men’s lawsuit was tossed out on Wednesday by the full United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. The decision diminishes any hope that this odious practice will finally receive the legal label it deserves: a violation of international law.

The lawsuit was brought in 2007 against a Boeing subsidiary, Jeppesen Dataplan, that the plaintiffs said had arranged the rendition flights that took them to Morocco, Egypt and Afghanistan to be tortured. One of the men, Binyam Mohamed, had his bones broken in Morocco, where security agents also cut his skin with a scalpel and poured a stinging liquid into his wounds.

But the merits of the case were never considered because the Bush administration argued that even discussing the matter in court would violate the state secrets privilege. Barack Obama told voters in 2008 that he opposed the government cult of secrecy, but once he became president, his Justice Department also argued that the case should be dismissed on secrecy grounds.

The Ninth Circuit was sharply divided, voting 6 to 5 to dismiss the case and overturn a decision to let it proceed that was made by a panel of three circuit judges last year. The majority said it reached its decision reluctantly and was not trying to send a signal that secrecy could be used regularly to dismiss lawsuits. But even though it is public knowledge that Jeppesen arranged the torture flights, the majority said any effort by the company to defend itself would pose “an unacceptable risk of disclosure of state secrets.”

That notion was demolished by the five-judge minority that dissented from the ruling, pointing out that the plaintiffs were never even given a chance to make their case in court using nonsecret evidence, including a sworn statement by a former Jeppesen employee about the company’s role in what he called “the torture flights.” The case should have been sent back to the district court to examine which evidence was truly secret; now it will have to be appealed to a Supreme Court that is unlikely to be sympathetic to the plaintiffs.

More at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/09/opinion/09thurs2.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. and justice for all
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. 'Ghost planes'. A shameful profitable business based on
torture. I had hoped that once Bush was gone, there were would be some justice for the victims.

Torture is a business. That is why they will not prosecute the torturers or provide the victims with some justice.

There is only one way now, since we know that Democrats will not restore the rule of law, and that is for the victims to seek justice outside of this country.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. There was outrage on the left when Bush invoked the States Secrets
rule. Now, a Democrat has done the same thing. What are they hiding? And who do they think they are fooling.

I hope there is recourse in some other country because there is no hope left for any justice in this one.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Here's a link to the Ninth Circuit Court Opinion
and when I read this bit passage (in the summary at the Jurist), I did a double-take:

" the possibility that the executive may determine whether the claims have merit and voluntarily choose to "honor the fundamental principles of justice."

Pass the judicial buck back to the executive to be the self-policing judge on an honor system?



The majority said that other avenues may be available for the plaintiffs to address their claims, including Congressional investigation of alleged wrongdoing, monetary reparations and the possibility that the executive may "determine whether the plaintiffs' claims have merit" and voluntarily choose to "honor the fundamental principles of justice." The five-judge minority chastised the proposal, saying that "(n)ot only are these remedies insufficient, but their suggestion understates the severity of the consequences to plaintiffs from the denial of judicial relief" and "elevate the impractical to the point of absurdity."


http://jurist.org/paperchase/2010/09/ninth-circuit-dismisses-cia-rendition-suit-on-state-secrets-grounds.php

Here's the 55 page Opinion.

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/09/07/08-15693.pdf


Yes, among other things, they really did say that.

V. OTHER REMEDIES


Our holding today is not intended to foreclose — or to prejudge— possible nonjudicial relief, should it be warranted for any of the plaintiffs. Denial of a judicial forum based on the state secrets doctrine poses concerns at both individual and structural levels. For the individual plaintiffs in this action,our decision forecloses at least one set of judicial remedies, and deprives them of the opportunity to prove their alleged mistreatment and obtain damages. At a structural level, terminating the case eliminates further judicial review in this civil litigation, one important check on alleged abuse by government officials and putative contractors. Other remedies may partially mitigate these concerns, however, although we recognize each of these options brings with it its own set of concerns and uncertainties.

First, that the judicial branch may have deferred to the executive branch’s claim of privilege in the interest of national security does not preclude the government from honoring the fundamental principles of justice. The government, having access to the secret information, can determine whether plaintiffs’ claims have merit and whether misjudgments or mistakes were made that violated plaintiffs’ human rights. Should that be the case, the government may be able to find ways to remedy such alleged harms while still maintaining the secrecy national security demands. For instance, the government made reparations to Japanese Latin Americans abducted from Latin America for internment in the United States during World War II.

(snip)




Here's what the dissenting judges said:



The majority concludes its opinion with a recommendation of alternative remedies. Not only are these remedies insufficient, but their suggestion understates the severity of the consequences to Plaintiffs from the denial of judicial relief. Suggesting, for example, that the Executive could “honor( ) the fundamental principles of justice” by determining “whether plaintiffs’ claims have merit,” (see Maj. Op. at 13554) disregards the concept of checks and balances. Permitting the executive to police its own errors and determine the remedy dispensed would not only deprive the judiciary of its role, but also deprive Plaintiffs of a fair assessment of their claims by a neutral arbiter. The majority’s suggestion of payment of reparations to the victims of extraordinary rendition, such as those paid to Japanese Latin Americans for the injustices suffered under Internment during World War II, over fifty years after those injustices were suffered (Maj. Op. at 13554), elevates the impractical to the point of absurdity.

Similarly, a congressional investigation, private bill, or enacting of “remedial legislation,” (Maj. Op. at 13556), leaves to the legislative branch claims which the federal courts are better equipped to handle. See Kosak v. United States, 465 U.S. 848, 867 (1984) (Stevens, J., dissenting).

(snip)



I would remand to the district court to determine whether Plaintiffs can establish the prima facie elements of their claims or whether Jeppesen could defend against those claims without resort to state secrets evidence.



13572 MOHAMED v. JEPPESEN DATAPLAN
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Makes a person wonder what the former law professor's students think of him now
I bet they never expected that he'd take up Dick Cheney's cause(s).
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Torture is the single greatest crime.
That is all.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. KoKo
KoKo

Mostly proberly, becouse if the evidence was known to everyone, and I mean everyone with a slightest interest if this, the outrage itself wil make it imposible for many politicans to go forward.. Not to say, the prosecution of the former Republican Administration, would go forward in a heartbeat..

But Im not suprised by this desideing, as long as it is not an american who are tortured it looks like its a clean case to do as they want... Even tho im not that suprised if americans would end up been tortured in the end... Oh the outrage when americans would be tortured, by your own government... This is not just for the collored pepole, but in the end also wil be used for punishing americans... This wil go right back to US one day..

Diclotican
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You're right about that
All those folks trained to torture, and trained to believe what they do is not torture, will one day get jobs in civilian law enforcement, if they have not done so already.

And, of course, some vets are already waterboarding their own children.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Alcibiades
Alcibiades

If they are not allready out there in civil law enforcement, they can be out there, with the learning they got from the military, to use torture, or violence against sivilians.. I am not a law enforcer myself, but at the look at the different cop series from your side of the atlantic it looks like poice officers have the tendency to use mutch violence against people who are accused of crimes, than in many other parts of the world.. I would say it is far more dangrous to cross the path with an american police officer, than say an norwigian police officer, who for the most part is calm, decent, and rather sivil in their actions. Have meed a few of them over the years, and I have yet to experience anything else than polite officers, who is decent in their handling with me - the fact that I allmoust shit on myself first time I was waiwed over for a control is another thing maybe. I don't know, but I was shaking and was scared as hell.. They even ask my why, and I have to say, Im not sure, it can be an experience I had as a little child or something, im not doing something illegal, but for some reason im scared as hell.. Wel the officer, calmed me down and say, okay, im pretty sure you have not been doing anything wrong, if you do, your guild wil be clear to se:P. He was a kind officer... And all my expereince with the officers, is rather polite one, they act sivil, if you act sivil I guess..

But I have also seen the other side of law enforcement, as one my nabors was making a mess about himself.. In my then 33 year old life I have never experienced police with weapons, but then they got into full gear, shield, helmets, and guns... But it ended peacefully as the fellow was arrested without problems, and taken into custody. No shoot fired, just a lot of peopole around... You know you are in trouble, when 3 "commando cars" are in your streets with a lot of officers, and enough comunications gear to talk to the moon...

Diclotican
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2 Much Tribulation Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. Torture laws are the clearest in all the law. If that law isn't clear, nothing can be clear. nt
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, KoKo.
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sam kane Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. oh no, oh no, oh no. how can this be? nt
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. And "Driving the Torture Getaway Car"
Will be Obama's ONLY legacy.

The rest is trivia.

---
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. k/r
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