I'll Quit Whining When You Start Fighting

[AJD48]

Good article. Excerpt below.

When Joe Lieberman threatened to scuttle health care reform, I wonder if President Obama accused him of "not being serious in the first place." I wonder if Joe Biden ever told Chuck Grassley to "quit whining," or if Robert Gibbs advised Mitch McConnel to get "drug tested."

Actually, I don't. I can't think of anything less likely than the Obama White House dealing with conservatives in anything like the derisive manner with which it treats its own supporters, a manner that has become even more pronounced as polls show many Democratic voters feeling less than inspired. The President makes the "not serious" charge against those Democrats in a new Rolling Stone interview, where he also says, "The idea that we've got a lack of enthusiasm in the Democratic base, that people are sitting on their hands complaining, is just irresponsible." And the Vice President has now famously admonished progressives for whining about the administration "not doing enough."

But that's not what we're whining about. We're not disappointed that President Obama hasn't done enough, we're disappointed that, in too many caes, he hasn't fought hard enough. Not nearly.

We wouldn't have cared about losing the public option in a fair fight, but we cared a lot about giving it away before the fight even started.

Article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-birkenhead/ill-quit-my-whining-when-_b_742900.html

[old mark]

1. Rec. I agree. nt

[LiberalEsto]

2. K&R

[The Uncola]

3. k&r

[babsbunny]

4. Loves it!

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[elehhhhna]

5. K&R. I see some other oldtime Duers are also in agreement.

Good on you, newbie. Please stick around & WELCOME TO DU!

[The Magistrate]

6. Hear Hear, Sir!

[Me.]

7. K & R

[golddigger]

8. Damn Str8.

[ThomCat]

9. Hell Yeah!

:applause:

[COLGATE4]

10. K&R. Well said - and it needed saying. Our problem hasn't

been with Obama but rather with his lack of capitalizing on his once-in-a-lifetime opportunity when he was elected to undertake real, genuine systemic change. Instead he squandered it pursuing his dream of being a 'President to all Americans', trying to achieve bipartisan agreement before anything else. The Rethugs figured that out in a hurry and forever thereafter forced him to negotiate against himself. He did not fight for the principles we believed he believed in - he might well have lost but he should have fought.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

19. I'd rather have Roosevelt in a wheelchair

than Obama in a tuxedo. FDR said he welcomed the hatred of the rich. "Class warfare" isn't a Republican talking point, it's the American way.

I am starting to believe that naivete and inexperience are Obama's greatest failings.

[joe black]

63. He's a sell out.

Those excuses won't fly. I want an FDR not a Hoover.

[stray cat]

11. Is fighting better than accomplishing anything or are you happy just to have fighting?

[Fruittree]

22. I suspect a lot of people just want the fighting...

[relayerbob]

47. Seems that way ... on all sides of the aisle

[Smashcut]

28. At this point, you won't accomplish anything without fighting

And certainly not by conceding what it is you were supposed to achieve before there's even any push-back.

[bkozumplik]

31. if you never show up and fight

you never win.

Obama leads when he's sure he'll win, and until then he makes deals. He's like a lawyer who is terrified of the courtroom.

If you never fight, you never win. He never fights.

[Daemonaquila]

48. Thank you for a perfect analogy.

That's exactly it. Maybe I'm biased, being a lawyer who gets grumpy at other lawyers with that particular malady, but... He's got the House, the Senate, a huge popular mandate, and some of the smartest people in the country who'd be happy to help out, and over and over he just gives away the farm before the fight even starts.

[GOTV]

41. How many GOP votes did NOT fighting get? How many less if he fought?

[green917]

49. Wayne Gretzky said it best:

"You miss 100% of the shots that you don't take!"

How do we know what he could have gotten passed if he had fought for it?

You cheer leaders seem to forget an unassailable fact:

He's the President of the United States, the "Most Powerful Man in the World". He is the head of the Democratic party and sets the agenda. GW Bush never had even close to the majorities that President Obama has had and he got everything he wanted. Why, you may ask? Because when a member of his caucus got out of line and went against the party's agenda, there were consequences (losing a committee chairmanship, losing national party funding, etc.). This man has the largest bully pulpit (coincidentally named for a President who knew how to use his influence) in the world but refuses to use it because he's afraid what John Boehner or Glenn Beck might say about him. The alternative is that he's gotten exactly what he really wanted (which is pretty horrible to imagine). Regardless, he hasn't shown real leadership on a single issue and that, and only that, is the reason that Democrats are struggling to stay competitive in this election.

I've said this before and I'll probably say it again before the day is over: Telling a portion of your constituency to "stop whining" and "buck up" a month before an election that you need all the help you can get to win is not only BAD politics, it's not very Presidential. I've lost a great deal of personal respect for the President this week because of his being involved in this mud slinging at progressives. The President should be above such political kabuki and it shouldn't be necessary in the 1st place.

[MissDeeds]

12. I agree, with one exception

We're not whining, we're expressing concerns. I hate that anything even remotely critical of this president is categorized as whining. The term is offensive, divisive, and inflammatory.

K&R

[stray cat]

13. If all progressives want is fighting -anyone can do it. Accomplishing something good is what I want

[Admiral Loinpresser]

20. Obama had his chance at Copenhagen

to make world history and do the right thing. He took the easy way out.

Obama 1, accomplishment 0.

[truedelphi]

26. Meanwhile the activists and others who really care about Planet Earth

All met up in Bolivia, where very direct and dynamic discussions were had.

And no limos there, to be rolling the self aggrandizing in and out of the meetings, as was the case in Copenhagen.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

35. My wife is Arapaho.

One of her colleagues went to the Bolivian conference and gave a blanket to the president.

I have read some of the communiques from that conference. Obama should have gotten his DLC ass down there!!!

[txlibdem]

56. Key to getting things done: make sure the USA isn't invited

eom

[truedelphi]

57. Or at least make sure that the USA doesn't get any veto power. n/t

[lark]

29. Why do you use the term progressive as a bad thing?

I agree about accomplishing something good, but can and do argue that the Dems settled for half the loaf by not fighting for what's right. They allowed the Repugs to take control and didn't outfox them as they could have. Nothing important is ever accomplished without a fight, the rich want to control everything and keep all the money - isn't that worth fighting?

[kenfrequed]

32. Accomplishing anything worthwhile...

Is utterly impossible if you are unwilling to stand for something.

[GOTV]

43. Absurd strawman, no progressive wants only fighting. Flawed premise.

[obxhead]

46. Accomplishing something good takes a fight most of the time.

Ever heard the saying "nothing good is free" or possible "if you want it, you have to fight for it!"

These sayings did not come to be through falsehoods.

[LaurenG]

54. You can do better than that.

Stop pretending that you know what you're talking about or start making sense. Progressives are the ones who would keep your ass out of the line of fire. It seems to me that people constantly nagging on progressives are not interested in peace or progress...just nagging.

[Skittles]

67. LOLOL

heaven forbid we expect BOTH

[ClarkUSA]

14. lol! Will the whining about whining ever stop??

[Stinky The Clown]

36. "lol!"

I'm sure you're laughing out loud.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

15. Actually when Lieberman said he was going to support the GOP filibuster...

Rahm Emanuel told him "Find a way to get to yes".

Which he did, by backing a watered down gift to the insurance industry.

Then, after the filibuster was broken, and the House refused to go along with the Lieberman/Baucus bill, they
used reconciliation to force a much better bill through. Both Lieberman and Baucus voted against the final
health care bill because it wasn't watered down enough.

Now if you think that you could do better than that, run for office yourself. Otherwise, quit whining.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Admiral Loinpresser]

37. The sordid endgame is not the issue.

1. During transition in 2008, partner with Ted Kennedy and outline a single payer proposal with secret public option fall back position.

2. Keep Baucus committee out of picture.

3. Partner with Congressional committees rather than handing over the keys.

4. Use prime time address to nation if necessary to get it done.

5. Exclude "health" industry and GOP from negotiations.

6. Insist on 60 days for bill out of committee in both houses.

7. Insist on reconciliation and passage within 100 days.

[Life Long Dem]

16. Then the whining is from the fighting.

Good to know.

[midnight]

17. Touche!!!

[SusanaMontana41]

18. Kicked and recommended n/t

[Riley133]

21. McD's may drop coverage for 30,000 employees

I guess I'm a fightin' kind of gal.....

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-fi-mcdonalds-20100930,0,2664885.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fmostviewed+%28L.A.+Times+-+Most+Viewed+Stories%29

[democracy1st]

23. K & R

[Lorien]

24. It's all too clear that this Whitehouse would prefer a GOP majority in both houses

Look, they're not stupid. They know that attacking their own voters will demoralize them and weaken turnout. It's the perfect setup for a pro-corporate anti-everything Progressive agenda; get your base to stay home, get the GOP house and senate you desire, then claim that you were "forced" by them to pass pro-corporate, anti-worker, anti-environment, anti-civil rights, anti-anything Liberal legislation...then blame the whole thing on your own base!

If we want to really stick it to them and see what they truly stand for we'll elect even MORE progressives into office. Then even their pathetic 60 vote rule won't be able to help their corporate cronies push their radical agenda further.

[txlibdem]

58. Oh, you meant anti-progressive agenda

Not anti-everything, Progressive agenda. I'm glad I caught that before I improperly responded.

Good points and it sure seems like you're right about the administration being against everything that is Progressive in nature.

[Tutankhamun]

65. In my most cynical moments, I agree with this.

In my more optimistic moments, I merely wonder if it isn't true.

[pleah]

25. K&R

[Smashcut]

27. K/R

[pam4water]

30. K & R

[displacedvermoter]

33. First Item I Ever Recommended!

Lots of folks who I recognize from when I was an active poster on DU.

Thanks

displaced

[DeSwiss]

34. Here, here! - K&R n/t

[laughingliberal]

38. K & R nt

[Vinca]

39. Absolutely agree.

They gave up single-payer before negotiations even started and only used the public option as a bargaining chip. I don't think there was any intention to do anything to piss off big insurance. I will certainly vote Democratic, but I'll be whining as I fill out my ballot.

[bvar22]

40. K&R

"Strong and successful presidents (meaning those who get what they want - whether that happens to be good for the country or not) do not accept "the best deal on the table". They take out their carpentry tools and the build the goddam piece of furniture themselves. Strong and successful presidents do not get dictated to by the political environment. They reshape the environment into one that is conducive to their political aspirations."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/17

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[JNelson6563]

42. I don't mind the whining so much as the cross dragging

My gawd but victimhood is in vogue these days!!

Julie

[displacedvermoter]

45. Is that like "'foot dragging" which seems to be in vogue with alot

of Dem politicians?

[JNelson6563]

53. Thanks for putting that cross down long enough to reply

[displacedvermoter]

64. Hey Julie

What if I told you I was a devout Christian and your "cross dragging" thing upset me deeply?

You likely wouldn't give a care, would you?

Just keeep up the morale enhancement work. You are really doing a great job.

[JDPriestly]

44. K&R Thanks for posting this.

[myrna minx]

50. K&R

:applause:

[Jester Messiah]

51. No, you won't.

The petulant whining that began before Obama even took office has never ceased since and won't until after he's left office. It's never enough, and never will be. Otherwise people would have to quit complaining and find something else to do.

[DailyGrind51]

52. Thank you! We were screwed when he didn't ask Congress to delay the August recess a year ago

until HCR was passed with a public option. He gave the issue to Freedomworks and fearmongering!

[txlibdem]

55. Bush was dismissive of the American people as well

I just wish we hadn't elected another center-right Republican as our President. Oh wait. We didn't KNOW that was what we were doing...

2012 primary season is coming. We will NEVER forget.

[yurbud]

59. kick--crucial points. He NEVER tried to move the right (even in the Democratic Party)

to the left, even when that was clearly what the public wanted and would have boosted his popularity and political clout.

[yurbud]

60. ''giving it away before the fight even started'' sums up a lot of the anger

the Democrats start in the middle and negotiate to the right.

[treestar]

61. They do fight

This "fighting" is just a metaphor for wishing that the POTUS was a dictator who could just get what we want by decree.

they fight within the context of the constitution. what is advocated here, physical violence?

People keep calling them cowards, the way conservatives do if you're against a war. Like that accusation is supposed to mean something. It's vague, and does not indicate what the politician was supposed to do and didn't. In short, it's another form of whining. The system doesn't let us just have what we want! Others get to vote and they don't vote the way we want! fight them! No, we don't. Our system allows a say to certain representatives in certain contexts. No one gets all they want. That's the point.

[Paladin]

62. Amen. K&R (n/t)

[democracy1st]

66. K & R