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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 04:54 PM
Original message
When Do We Hit The Streets?
I don't know. All I can do, as a student of history, is point out what happened last time.

"Last time" started in 1848, often called "the Year of Revolutions" for the numbers of violent upheavals, mostly (but not entirely) in Europe. France, Italy, the various German states, Hungary and Austria, Poland, Slovakia... all were among the states that saw their people take to the streets, making outrageous demands like a voice in their own governments, mitigation of the economic exploitations that produced grinding poverty and early death for more than half of the populations, and so forth. Unreasonable, like.

What did they gain?

In France: A Second Republic, which lasted a total of four (4) years before the "people's leaders" re-established one of the most corrupt, dysfunctional monarchic governments since Louis XVI was shortened by a head.

In Italy: A bitter see-sawing back and forth between Austrian rule, short-lived Italian constitutional monarchies, and a Roman "Republic" that ended with Austria re-asserting control over the northern provinces and France taking over the Roman and Vatican states' temporal management.

In the German States: A windy, divisive debating society called the Assembly of Frankfurt, which spent so much time dithering over various political machinations among the member states that ultimately the King of Prussia was able to re-assert a monarchy with a token constitution and a parliament packed by a class-related voting system with the same aristocracy the people had revolted against.

In Austria and Hungary: A short-lived rash of independent nationalist states, in which the newly "liberated" people promptly elected conservative or moderate governments who suppressed and repudiated the radical revolutionaries that empowered them, connived at ethnic violence and repression, and ended up collapsing back into the fold of Empire. In Hungary, a Magyar government was established and managed to hold out for nearly a year and a half before being reabsorbed.

In Poland: A few months of political wrangling with the Prussians, promises of autonomy that were quickly revoked, several rounds of ethnic violence between German and Polish nationalists, a number of bloody pogroms against the Jews, and some sanguinary battles that ultimately ended with Poland firmly back under Prussian control.

In Slovakia: Violence against Hungarian rule, and an alliance with the Austrians that left them part of the Austro-Hungarian empire, back under Hungarian control, with a few token rights to their own language.

Other states fared similarly. In no place, really, could any of the Revolutions of 1848 be considered ultimately "successful" in the sense of replacing conservative, autocratic, and/or authoritarian governments with liberal, humane, collaborative governments.

However, two things need to be noted about the Year of Revolution:

First, there were places where no one took to the streets. Including great Britain, Russia, the Netherlands, and America, among others.

Second, while the actual events of the year seemed sadly futile, the LEGACY of 1848 was not. Power structures all over the world had seen the streets fill with people demanding change and willing to shed blood for it. And although the forces of counter-revolution appeared to prevail, it set the stage for a steady, painful, costly regaining of ground by the forces of the people. In Britain, where the people had NOT taken to the streets, the elements of the Constitutional monarchy that empowered the aristocratic class slowly gave ground and were ultimately and (comparatively) peacefully retired over the next sixty years.

Largely because of a pervasive fear that 1848 would repeat itself, perhaps successfully this time, governments began to look for ways to placate the middle classes, and relieve the grinding miseries of the poor. The methods they chose were largely calculated on the basis of keeping power in the hands that had held it all along, but even so, the mere facts of middle class significance and lessening poverty had long-term effects.

World War One was the death blow to many of the authoritarian regimes that had pushed back against the violence in the streets. And in the economic devastation left behind, another bubble grew, swelled, and broke, amid increasing in-the-streets violence from labor and socialist idealists. A hundred years after the Year of Revolution, a Western Europe re-building after a second conflagration laid the groundwork for the most liberal and successful socio-economic bloc the world has ever seen.

I'm not claiming that history will repeat itself. If there are any lessons to be gained from the Year of Revolution, they are easily counterbalanced by other interpretations from other readers of history. You can say, if you like, that it was only fear of the masses in the streets that began the loosening and the change. You can equally make a case that it was fear of those same masses that inspired the backlash of autocratic repression and a death-grip on power among the decadent ruling classes.

But these observations of that time, I believe, translate effectively to the political and social economy of the early 21st Century:

  1. Mobs in the streets are a contagious phenomenon. The science of discontent theorizes cumulative effect, and thus far nothing has disproved the theory. Thus the efforts of the powerful to control communications as a means of checking the spread. (Why do you think so little about 1848 is actually taught in history classes?)

  2. There is a point of no return after which the efforts to control communications and check the spread of mobs in the streets actually increase the speed and scope of the phenomenon. And the powerful cannot see that point approaching and cannot perceive when it is passed.

  3. Mobs in the streets whose agenda is inchoate, unfocused, and un-articulated may prevail in the short term but their gains are easily lost. It takes a powerful, coherent, and clearly-articulated agenda, broadly supported and promoted by a dedicated and organized cadre of leaders, to make any lasting gains. And finally;

  4. The true power of a mob in the street lies not in its existence, but in the fear evoked and exaggerated by memory.


I do not know whether or when we will hit the streets in this country. I think some reflection on what happened last time might prepare us for more productive results if and when it does come.

However, knowing exactly how much tendency for reflection the average intensely motivated ideologue has, I am not optimistic. Knowing exactly how much tendency for reflection the average American has, I must admit to a strong twinge of pessimism.

Nevertheless, it is inspiring to observe the level of determination and courage elsewhere in the world. I can only hope their courage and their bitter sacrifices are crowned with better success than last time. And that, if and when we do hit the streets in this country, we do so not only inspired by them, but by the lessons of history.

Anyone willing to give me odds?

philosophically,
Bright

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
1.  we`d be gunned down in the streets.....
Edited on Sat Jan-29-11 04:59 PM by madrchsod
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That is why they are arming them through the NRA and hate speech.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Plenty of Democrats are also armed ...
or live in a house with firearms.





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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #23
53. Almost 2x as Many Repiggies Have Guns, and they Like Killing (i.e. Hunting) a Lot More
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Plenty of Democrats also hunt ...
Where I live at my state representative is a Democrat who has an "A" rating from the NRA. One of his campaign representatives urged me to vote for him by saying, "You know how important firearms are to people in this county."

Deer and wild hog are plentiful and many people stock their freezers with venison during the deer season. I live in a poor country and many people have a difficult time affording meat from the grocery store. Prepared properly, venison and hog taste as good as or better than store bought meat and are healthier as they contain far fewer chemicals and steroids.

Deer are so plentiful that they cause many auto accidents locally. I moved here from the Tampa Bay area and I still have to remind myself to watch out for deer running in front of my car. Wild hog are not native and you can hunt them year around without a license. They can and do damage the environment.

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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. Total Nonsense
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have no idea, but your posts are always educational. Thanks.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Things may be bad, but Americans are still too comfortable here to take to the streets.
It will not happen here. Besides, there are far too many Republican governors who will call out the national guard.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
52. There are Many Who Are Not Comfortable At All
but they are isolated from each other and the Tee Vee is often able to misdirect their anger at us instead of the parties responsible.


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Diana9 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. We need to use the Internet
to connect locally.

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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. I would expect another Rwanda here rather than what is happening in Egypt...K&R n/t
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
37. Amen to that
We're much more likely to see wholesale slaughter of liberals and Dems than any actual revolution. we probably would have fought back now if we were ever going to.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. When our unemployment rate
hits those of the countries that are having the demonstrations, you're still about five or ten points away from seeing it in our streets.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
38. Only because unemployment figures are fraudulently calculated
If you've been unemployed too long you are no longer counted.

The actual unemployment rate in the US is around 19%.

In Tunisia, they ousted the government when unemployment hit 14%.
In Egypt, they want to kick the leader out, unemployment is about 9.8%.

It doesn't seem that any other country has as high unemployment as the USA has. So the OP has a damn good question: at what point do Americans get off the couch (and turn off the reality tv) long enough to take to the streets?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. Still not sure why people believe our uprising has to involve hitting the streets.
I think that we are fortunate to have many other options for effecting real change.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. And what would those options be?
I really want to know.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Exactly...
We can change our constitution if we want, we can change our representatives if we want, we can exercise free speech and we have a free press. Plus we have freedom of religion and freedom from religion.

That's why we have the longest lasting written constitution in the world.



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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I agree with you in theory, but I'm sure you've noticed
Edited on Sat Jan-29-11 06:06 PM by whathehell
how difficult it is to reach consensus in a country of three hundred million plus...


I'm not being sarcastic, it's just that everything here, if it moves at all

seems to move at a friggin snail's pace.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Which means it our system works as it was designed ..
the founding fathers set up a government that could be changed with long consideration and much effort.

While such as system is often frustrating, it eliminates radical change in the heat of a moment which might be folly.

Is such a style of government successful? We have the longest lasting written Constitution in the world. It has only been amended twenty-seven times.

Ref: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters_of_freedom_6.html


The makers of the Constitution wanted to create a firm basis for the exercise of governmental power. However, they were wise enough to know that if they made their document too rigid, if they wrote it so that it could not be revised to suit future times and events, they were inviting future revolution. They would be creating a situation in which the only method to effect change would be to cast aside the Constitution itself. As George Mason noted at the 1787 convention, changes would be necessary, and it would be ''better to provide for them in an easy, regular and constitutional way than to trust to chance and violence.''

So they made it open to change - but not open to change without great effort. James Madison was among those who warned against making things too easy. It was important, he said, to guard ''against that extreme facility which would render the Constitution too mutable.'' For if it could be altered easily, the Constitution would be mere temporary law, not a document for the ages.

***snip***

It is clear that a strong effort to gain an amendment can influence government even when it fails. It acts as a brooding omnipresence in the sky, signaling to politicians that they must act. Some proposals that fail as amendments result in legislation. Proposed amendments reflecting public opposition to busing for desegregation purposes led to a 1972 education law restricting Federal involvement in busing. More recently, official school prayer amendment proposals led to the passage of the Equal Access Act of 1984, which provides that religious activities may not be excluded from among any extracurricular activities allowed on a public school's premises. Instead of passing an amendment requiring the balancing of the Federal budget, Congress in 1985 tried the expedient of enacting the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Act to achieve a balanced budget in stages. In each of these cases, the stringent requirements for ratification of an amendment have prevented changing the Constitution. But politicians who needed to do so could show constituents that they were responding to their concerns.
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/13/magazine/amending-the-constitution-how-hard-it-is-to-change.html?pagewanted=3&src=pm
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I realize that...
but it isn't helping us much with changes needed now, if not yesterday, is it?
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. If they are worthwhile changes, we'll get them tomorrow...
Patience, Grasshopper.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Sure we will...
Action, Snail.B-)
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Diana9 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
61. Jefferson said...
"Democracy is impractical outside of a town"

Even in a time of mass transit and mass communication,
I think this statement still holds true.

All politics are local. We have to turn our attention from the macro politics to the micro politics. The Internet can help us do that.






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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. Free press? Please. nt
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
36. Exercise free speech?
Remember the people who were arrested for having bumper stickers that Smirk didn't like? Free press? Have you turned on your radio or opened a newspaper lately?

One thing that might need to change for a revolution is confrontation of reality.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
45. That's why we have the longest lasting written constitution in the world.
Which is being increasingly ignored! by the powers that be, have you noticed?

No point in changing it, they just ignore first one section then another, all in the name of "security", until habea corpus is gone, until the President matter of factly states he has the right to ok the killing of American citizens without a trial, without conviction, only because someone "thinks" that citizen has done something wrong.

People used to have the right "to be secure in their effects, in their homes and in their person" from
unreasonable search and seizure.
Now, cops can bust down your door, seize your possessions, your money, claiming they are doing a drug raid, and even if you go to court and prove you are innocent, the police can legally keep everything they grabbed. Your car, your house, your money...everything.
In fact, now banks are admittedly foreclosing on homes that have no mortgages and unless the now deposed
homeowner can afford a lawyer, they get away with it.

10 years ago, that would have been unthinkable.

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. Are you going to answer the question put to you?
What other options?
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. 1848 also produced the Communist Manifesto
http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h36-48.html

In June 1847, Britain's parliament passed the "Ten Hours Bill," which limited the hours of work per week for women and children to sixty-three. Later that year in London, delegates from Britain's Working Men's Association gathered with delegates of German workers -- and international conference of workers initiated by Karl Marx, now twenty-nine, with a Doctorate in Philosophy and a devotion to radical politics in the interest of those who labored in workshops. Most of those at the conference advocated brotherhood. Marx preached class warfare. A "Communist League" was created, with Marx and his associate, Friedrich Engels, commissioned to write, as they did from December to January 1848, what became known as the Communist Manifesto. ... Marx wrote of communism as a specter haunting Europe, and "all the powers of old Europe," he wrote, had "entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this specter." In reality, Marx and his communism, were still little known, and the group for whom he wrote the manifesto was tiny.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Actually, the German "Achtundvierzigers" established a socialist gov't that ran til 1960.
Not in Germany, to be sure, but in Milwaukee. Ever hear of Frank Zeidler? Also read up on the Milwaukee Turnvereins.

Zeidler was elected Milwaukee County County Surveyor in 1938 on the Progressive Party ballot line (the Socialist Party and Progressives were in coalition in Milwaukee at that time<5>). He was elected to a six-year term on the Milwaukee Board of School Directors (a non-partisan office) in 1941, just after his brother Carl Zeidler was elected Mayor of Milwaukee in 1940.<2> In 1942, Frank Zeidler was the Socialist nominee for Governor of Wisconsin, receiving 1.41% of the vote in a six-way race. He was re-elected to the Milwaukee School Board in 1947.
After two years in office, Carl Zeidler enlisted in the Navy at the height of World War II. Carl was killed at sea when his ship was lost and became a local hero, helping to pave the way for his younger brother to become mayor. In 1948 Frank Zeidler ran for mayor in a crowded field of fourteen candidates and won, undoubtedly aided by the familiarity of his surname.<6>The large field of candidates was due to Mayor John Bohn declining to seek re-election in 1948. Among the candidates that year was attorney Henry S. Reuss, a Democrat who later went on to win election to Congress in 1954. Zeidler was re-elected in 1952 and 1956, but declined to seek another term in 1960, citing health reasons.
Zeidler was Milwaukee's third Socialist mayor (after Emil Seidel <1910-12> and Daniel Hoan <1916-40>), making Milwaukee the largest American city to elect three Socialists to their community's top job.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Over a hundred thousand people in New York alone "hit the streets" at
the start of the Iraq War, not to mention the others in different cities across the country.

What good did it do?:shrug:
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Bennyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. I got holes in my shoes
bout it.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. This is my point.
If a protest is not covered on the major TV networks it might as well have not happened. A protest against the official corporate story line would have to amount to millions of protesters -in numbers the PTB and their media could not ignore.
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Diana9 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
62. Street demonstrations are old century
You could have millions in the streets, they'd still
ignore us.

One day at a demonstration means absolutely nothing. it has no bite.

People demonstrate, the media gives it perfunctory mention on the 6 o'clock news, if that, everybody goes home.

Nothing happens.






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Lint Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. If American Idol and Reality shows and Faux Boobs were taken away people would riot.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. Americans will never take to the streets!
not with American Idol..Mainstream Corporate Propaganda*Newz*...etc...but..you nevah know.. ;)
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Maybe someone should figure out how to do that....
Interrupt people's American Idol and other televised "circuses" ...

I don't have the knowledge to be able to do that, but maybe someone else out there does.

Just a thought to file away for the future.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
29.  I remember these like they were yesterday..






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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. The reasons we no longer have
a military draft. If a fucking war is worth fighting it is worth having a draft. Otherwise NO WAR.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Sure, the Draft made Vietnam's blight more equitable, but a "war tax" would
at least force the damned things to be paid for. Bush's illegal Iraq invasion, and wars on 'credit card' will haunt us for a long time.
And those of us that did take to the streets were ignored or discounted by the media. Even dead soldiers' arrival at Dover AFB was kept from public view...
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Yeah.
That little piece of work by Bush and his puppet masters was about the greatest crime ever perpetrated on the American people. I say 'about' because the same bunch then went on to loot the treasury. I'm saying in all seriousness we need to dust off the guillotines.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #39
50. The Draft Was Never Equitable and Never Can Be
People like Bush and Cheney never had to worry about being sent to Vietnam.

A draft by its nature is unfair to people who don't have their connections.
If you actually were somehow able to remove that from the equation by eliminating all deferments,
it becomes even more grossly unfair to those who really are medically unable to fight
but would be forced to do so anyway (and face certain death).
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #34
51. The Reason is that the Media Won't Cover Protests Anymore
Back in the day, protests were news and they got lots of coverage. No more.


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Diana9 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
63. What did that do?
Absolutely nothing.

Except gave people a feeling of solidarity.

But it did not stop the war.

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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Are you saying we should never take to the streets? That mass protests
are a waste of time if there isn't some "result"? I posted those pictures of protests to counter the person above who said 'protests would never happen here' (in the US)
These are just a few of ones I've been involved in: the Civil Rights freedom march on Washington 1963, Kent State protests, antiwar protests (like at the Pentagon 1972) and antiwar marches against the invasion of Iraq.
You are entitled to believe that those huge public protests were pointless, that they did nothing to affect national policy, but I doubt many would agree with you.
It looks like you are new here at DU, (and young and perhaps cynical?) Stick around, there is much to absorb here.
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Meeker Morgan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. "We" aren't hitting the streets any time soon.
But I'm a bit worried that "they" might.

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decidedlyso Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
54. They will. And they may actually give the appearance of becoming
effective--because no one else is really doing anything! Sad.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. when hell freezes over and pigs fly?
Americans are too conservative and too authoritarian.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. I can't see this ever happening here.
As Martin Luther King said, one must overcome their fear of death to be an effective agent of change. You won't find that trait among a population that willingly lets itself be irradiated, sexually groped and otherwise humiliated because they're "afraid."
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Tuvok Obama Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. When they use the Internet kill-switch on us
We'll be forced to travel to see our friends and families, but with all the clogged streets, we'll have to get out of our cars and walk.

Because of our massive numbers, we'll be seen as rioters, and hit with water and tear gas.

Once we're wet and pissed off, we'll have nothing better to do than fight back.

So they need to forget this Internet kill-switch nonsense, and do something about job-creation instead.
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
27. We need to examine our own history for inspiration and popular uprising for change. There's Shay's
Rebellion, the Rail Strike of 1877, the General Strike of 1919 in Seattle, the IWW organizing against US involvement in WW I, the Civil Rights marches, Voting Rights organizing and agitation for change, the Peace Movement against war produced the Port Huron Statement, the Feminist Movement, the Environmental Movement, and what has become known as the Battle In Seattle in 1999. We have our own rich history for inspiration and activism we just need to study and understand it. We've done it before and we can and must do it again.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. And do what? Not snarky, but if there were enough educated people that knew what
they wanted and were willing to fight for it our elections would almost be pre-determined and remove the need for any protest. Without an informed agenda an angry mob would just be cut down in the streets, and not accomplish anything.

Besides, we can't march tonight, because our show is on.







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radhika Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. Excellent Summary but who are 'we' and 'they'?
At this point, we have reasonably fair-ish elections every two years, we aren't dealing with a 30-year tyranny. USA street action would not be to unseat the current group in office.

But there could be street action. It would be the Right/Conservative wing (baggers, theocrats, nativists) against the Left/Progressive/Liberal wing (science, social safety net and seculars). Corporations would profit from both sides. Have no clue where the military would stand...
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
31. K&R. Thanks Bright!
I am ready. Just examine what doing nothing has accomplished. Look how the media has falsely branded the Tea Party as the face of a national populist movement. I agree, we should be in the streets.

But. The media is our most pressing issue. Consolidated media interests must be over thrown. A huge majority of the American people are now perfectly aware that their media is nothing but a source of corporate/government propaganda. Of course it might be necessary to take to the streets to achieve our ends.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
41. NEVAH! n/t
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
42. HUGE K & R !!!
:patriot:

:kick:
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'd suggest that a General Strike would be more appropriate for the US situation
When it comes down to it, the USA is not oppressed, in terms of any lack of basic rights. I don't think many people are in such a bad way that the risk of violence that goes with taking to the streets to demand the end of your current constitution by force is justified for them.

The problems that the US population have are economic; and the solutions will be economic too. Hit the banks with boycotts, blockade the distribution terminals of the oil companies, go on strike against the corporations that make huge profits and salaries for the CEOs, while laying off workers or keeping the rest on near minimum wage.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. Strikes are Worse than Useless When They Can Easily Send Our Jobs Offshore
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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
44. They're stirring the pot ...
Any pot will do .... they've grown tired of Iraq and Afghanistan ... Egypt, The Saudis, whatever and wherever ... it will certainly keep the war machine cranking .... WHY would we want to participate in their madness? ...
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joentokyo Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
46. The answer is easy
when the majority of Americans are trying to live on $2.00 a day live most Egyptians have been doing.
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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
47. the 2 party factions
would be too busy fighting each other before they touch a hair on the back of the elites that destroy this country. We will run out in the street and argue about abortion till the security comes to lock us up.

The country is too divided for any kind of revolution
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
48. I don't feel any need to have to take to the streets to be heard.
Edited on Sun Jan-30-11 09:31 PM by wisteria
We have a democracy that is pretty much open and if I have a complaint I express it in writing to my Representatives. Now, sometimes they see my point of view and sometimes they do not, but when they don't, I don't get angry and take to the streets demanding that things be done the way I want them. You see, I am not always correct, and my point of view may not be shared by a majority of people in our country.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. The only time we are heard is when we hit the streets and build mass movements demanding change.

Look at the history of this nation.

Why should the ruling rich listen to you if you're not part of a big mass movement?

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
59. what about when the overwhelming majority agree, call & write their reps, and are ignored?
that happened most recently and obviously with the Wall Street bailout when people across the political spectrum wanted Washington to to let the assholes die, but instead they threw them a lifeline with our tax dollars.
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benld74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
58. Right after the big reality show is over/y Facebook status is updated/my next twitter,,,,
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