Full-face veils outlawed as France spells out controversial niqab ban

[CHIMO]

From Saudi tourists window-shopping on the Champs-Élysées to Muslim women in a departure lounge at Charles de Gaulle airport or the few young French converts on suburban estates, any woman who steps outside in France wearing a veil that covers her face will be breaking the law from next month.

France's bitterly divisive debate on Muslim women's clothing took a new turn when the legal details of the controversial "burqa ban" were published in a decree by the prime minister. From 11 April women will be banned from wearing the niqab – full-face Muslim veil – in any public place, including while walking down the street, taking a bus, at a bank, library or shop, or in a cinema or theatre. It will be illegal for a woman in niqab to visit the Louvre, or any other museum, take a train, visit a hospital or collect her child from school.

Face veils will be outlawed virtually anywhere outside women's own homes, except when they are worshipping in a religious place or travelling as a passenger in a private car, although traffic police may stop them if they think they do not have a clear "field of vision" while driving. Women wearing niqab will be fined €150 (about £130) and be given a citizenship class to remind them of the republican values of secular France and gender equality. Any third party found to have coerced a woman into wearing the face covering, for example a husband or family member, risks a €30,000 fine and a year in prison.

The niqab ban, proposed by a communist MP but later championed by Nicolas Sarkozy and his rightwing ruling UMP party, has reopened the long-running debate over how the country with Europe's biggest Muslim community integrates Islam into its secular republic.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/03/niqab-ban-france-muslim-veil

Sexual discrimination. Plain and obvious.

Men can have a full beard, wear sunglasses and a nice hat that ends up in even less recognition. But women have to pay higher car insurance rates in England to avoid discrimination.

The world has lost all logic!

[theoldman]

1. The Muslim women can wear big sunglasses like Hollywood movie stars.

[CHIMO]

5. And

Grow big bushy beards.

[Tx4obama]

2. Good! Faces should NOT be covered up in public.

Need to be able to SEE the face, in case a crime is committed.
Besides when a person moves to a new country - do as the Romans do!

[jerseygal]

3. Agree completely and hope this comes to the United States

I'm always riding on the train in Philadelphia with completely covered Muslim women. Often, there may be only a few people in the train car and I wonder if a crime was committed and we needed a witness - there would be no way to identify these women.

If they want to stay covered, they can stay in their own homes and do what they like.

In addition, they absolutely should not be driving a car. They are like horses with blinders on them. If they want to drive a car, take their god damn face covering veil off. I don't care what their face looks like, but I sure want them to see my car (not my face particularly) when I am driving next to them so they don't veer out in front of me.

[BlueJazz]

4. I agree with everything you said.

[pnwmom]

7. You WOULD care what a woman's face looked like

if she hit you while driving a car. First, the niqab would limit her ability to see -- then it would prevent you from identifying her.

I agree -- they should, at the very least, be banned while driving.

[pnwmom]

6. You can see better through sunglasses than through a niqab.

I don't think they should be allowed when women are driving, either.

And you can't compare a veil to a beard. A beard is part of a man's body -- a veil is a piece of clothing designed to cover.

[CHIMO]

8. Well

Thanks for your experience wearing a niqab.

So how does a state establish what is acceptable apparel?
And should they disallow women wearing beards?
And do they have to take off sunglasses in certain places?
Should sun glasses be regulated to size and transparency?

Just my questions?

Then what about other apparel?

[pnwmom]

9. Actually, I had a chance recently to try one on.

One of my friends acquired one during her travels. You can hardly walk in a niqab without tripping. I can't imagine driving in one, because it restricts peripheral vision. Sunglasses can improve vision, especially in bright light or with a prescription. Niqab only limits vision.

No, they shouldn't disallow anyone with a beard because a beard is a body part -- unlike a veil. I already said that.

The way the French law is written, any apparel -- not just a niqab, but a hood, a mask, etc. -- that covers a person's face (except for the eyes) is prohibited. It sounds like a reasonable law to me.

[CHIMO]

10. Interesting

How much of the face should be permitted to be covered.

How long of a skirt or dress be permitted to drive a car without impairing ones driving ability? How much of a hindrance are high heels in driving?

And should women be permitted to grow beards? How large are sunglasses allowed to be?

[provis99]

11. what a bunch of straw man nonsense.

[pnwmom]

12. Actually, I meant to say burqa.

Which covers the face and the whole body.

[rpannier]

13. How does the state establish a lot of things

OFten through a series of discussions and then they decide on the rule or law

Age to drive in the US 16. Why 16? Why not 15 or 18?
Voting 18. Why 18? There are some really smart and informed 16 year olds and some really disconected 20 year olds.
I've seen stories where you can't wear a hat or a flat cap in Yorkshire pubs but you can have extremely long hair. Why? So they can see the faces more clearly on CCTV. But, I could hide my face under very long hair. You don't have to style your hair to keep it out of your eyes. Hair is natural, a hat is not.

[MisterP]

14. what's French for "mutaween"? nt