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aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 08:27 AM
Original message
The case for sanctions against Israel
First, I hope it's OK to post this here instead of the Israel/Palestine group, because I wish that the possible discussion on this article and the points I try to make would center more on the EU and EU/US angles.


"The bomb attack in Tel Aviv yesterday highlights the desperate need to achieve a peace settlement. It highlights, too, the futility of the wall Israel is building in Palestinian land, a wall condemned by the international court of justice last Friday and whose route was condemned by Israel's supreme court last month. What action is needed to put an end to this dance of death?"

snip

"Economic sanctions and an arms ban against Israel are the only way of breaking the impasse. Such a policy brought down apartheid in South Africa, which was similarly condemned by the world court in 1971 for its illegal occupation of South West Africa (now free and democratic Namibia). It was sanctions imposed by a President Bush (the incumbent's markedly more sensible and principled father) that forced a rightwing Israeli prime minister, Yitzhak Shamir, to peace talks in Madrid after Bush suspended $10bn of loan guarantees for resettling Russian immigrants in Israel.

Obtaining sanctions and a weapons ban today will not be easy. That is all the more reason why a strong campaign needs to be mounted as soon as possible. A recent report by the House of Commons international development committee pointed to the leverage available through making European trade agreements conditional on Israel's compliance with international law and security council resolutions (all flouted by Israel).

War on Want has stated: "A trade policy could provide a key mechanism for exerting pressure on Israel. A full economic embargo would be in line with article two of the EU-Israeli association agreement, which states that trade restrictions can be enforced in deference to a country's poor human rights record." As emerges incontrovertibly from the Israeli supreme court's ruling, let alone that of the international court, this government's human rights record is appalling."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1259087,00.html


I see no realistic hope of either Bush or Kerry admins taking effective measures to end the conflict, so it is time for EU to face it's responsibilities promoting peace and stability and human rights at it's neighbourhood, even if this means breaking loose from common front with US. Most Israel foreign trade is with EU, so this should give enough leverage for EU policy of sanctions to be very effective on both putting pressure on Israeli governement and changing the common opinion in Israel, first among the influential Israel business community.

After the International Court's condemnation of the "security" wall has gone through UN and been vetoed by US, it should be time for EU to take action. However, I'm not in total agreement with the article, I don't support full trade embargo right away (except arms embargo), but a slowly tightening sanctions regime, starting with threatening and clear dates. The human rights clause in association treaty with Israel not only allows EU to use trade sanctions, but also morally obligates it to do so. This should naturally be done in consultation with third parties, including Russia, EU's other Mediterranean partners and US.

So, how likely is it that EU would follow my advice? Hard to say. I'm pretty sure that European common opinion and also majority of European Parliament support sanctions or threat of them if given chance to vote. The power to take initiative in EU trade policies lies with European Commission, but it is hard to imagine that in a matter as grave as this, Commission would go forward without political support from European Counsil, ie. governement of member states. Such support may be hard to come by. For Germany, because of historical reasons, it is very difficult to take any actions against Israel. Especially UK and some of the new member states may be very reluctant to defy US, if (and when) it comes to that. But there's also cost to pay in not taking action. No end to the conflict in sight, EU's policies on human rights and promoting international rule of law loosing credibility and EU's southern neighbours accusing us - rightly so - of partiality in the conflict.

One unknown is how hard blow would such action be on the already strained US - EU relations, e.g. presuming that Kerry wins. Any takers?
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've been advocating this since Sharon took charge
and since Bush has given Israel a total pass on human rights since 9/11/2001. Its a crime.


But as yet its a dream.
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comradebillyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. it is not possible in the current political climate
blunt and open criticism of israel is not really acceptable in american public discourse, including here at du.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Not yet possible in the US
but it might just be possible in Europe - this is a British MP advocating EU sanctions against Israel. There's no "support Israel, right or wrong" lobby in Britain. According to the CIA Factbook, Israel imports more goods from the EU than from the USA.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. oh, I wouldn't say that...
I've been pretty open about my feelings on Israel (see post below).

Indeed, there are people here at DU who are very sensitive to the topic, but I think you're able to speak your mind, as long as you don't advocate violence.

And really, violence is never a solution to anything, so it should never be advocated. ;-)
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. I've held for years that Israel should stop getting special treatment
all the while acting like a murderous thug.

In it's brief history, Israel has never shown that it had any desire whatsoever to live in harmony with the Palestinians. While Palestine is not innocent, they have a legitimate claim to the territory. Further, Israel has shown only contempt for the international community, preferring to hide behind the coattails of Great Britan and the US, and commit atrocities that no 'civilized' nation should be committing.

It's high time that Israel began to act live a member of the international community, rather than a rogue nation.

The same advice, sadly, needs to go out to the US these days. :-(
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. Definitely sanctions should be imposed but I agree that
its politically impossible to achieve in the US or Canada.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. People who suggest sanctions misapprehend the Israeli mindset, imo
This isn't the case of South Africa, where rich elites employed the apartheid system out of naked greed, supremacism, and evil. The Israelis have a deep conviction that they're facing complete annihilation. Is that belief accurate or even rational? No and probably not.

But, driving the Israelis further into a bunker mentality isn't going to solve the problem.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. So we have to give billions because of their "mindset"
BTW I agree with you completely, Israeli's irrational beliefs are the only real obstacle. Knowing this mindset, we need a brilliant person to figure it out and with the most pressure that can possibly be brought on both sides.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Attaching strings to aid and sanctions are two different plans
I think they should tie aid to the settlements.
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aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Valid consern
Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 02:31 PM by aneerkoinos
Sanctions for sanctions sake would be foolish and wrong, they should be applied by EU only if there is real hope they have positive impact on the overall situation. No doubt there would be huge propaganda campaign by Israel governement and media conglomerates close to it against Europe yelling "anti-Semitism", with the purpose of creating the said bunker mentality in Israel. But thats the treatment EU has been getting from Sharon's governements and "Israel can do no wrong -crowds" from the beginning, so nothing would change.

However, I'm not convinced that the "deep conviction" you speak about is so all-pervasive in the Israel society as you would lead to believe. I'm convinced most Israelis like all people are capable of rational thinking at least occasionally, and looking at things from more than one point of view, at least occasionally. Most of all, I'm convinced Israeli people are capable of looking for their own best interests, and the economic conditions of Israeli citizens have been badly already deteriorating because of the continuing conflict, and a threat of sanctions would wake up many people to face the hard reality.

If the sanctions would be applied only against the security wall for those parts that are against international law, as I suggest at this stage, the Israel opposition that refused to participate in any governement that Likud is part of and opposes building a land-grab wall on the West Bank, would have hard time to come up with strong moral arguments against EU, but sanctions or threat of them would give them loads of heavy ammo against the foolhardy Sharon governement and convince much of the Israel business community to join the opposition.

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ecoalex Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. America is Israel's puppet
It's time to cut the Israeli strings to our government.What is the "protection of Israel" about?, they have the A-bomb , and Apache helicoptors, a democracy, and are financially stable. To stop the stupidity, give the Palestinians their state, stop the wall, and cut the billions we give Israel.Cut the Israeli strings to the U.S. puppet.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm all for boycotting Israel
as long as they practice apartheid policies against Palestinians, murder American citizens with my taxes, and do everything they can to abort a Palestinian state from forming.
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dand Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. Because of Israel, America is an international pariah,
our politicians are terrified of APAC, Sharon himself said that Israel owns the USA. Its time to dump Israel.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-04 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
14. I wasn't going to reply...but I saw something...
I totally disagree with the whole premise on Israel. The government in charge now IS out of control. But some of you were right, this subject still does piss off some people..

Did you know there are parties on both sides who are desperately trying to form peaceful coalitions to settle their problems aside from each of their vile, warmongering leaders? I just heard this today on the news. One Democracy led group on the Palestinians side, and a freedom group on the Israeli side who refuse to fight (militarily) or support their current governments. Why not seek out these groups and help support their causes???

Why attack the nations themselves? The regular people living over there (much aside from any radicals) just want peace. Just want to live a regular life with their families and jobs and rebuild etc.

The Palestinians and the Israelis have occupied that land for 1000's of years.........they are cousins, they are both semites. At the turn of the last century they lived together peacefully. Then, the Brits and came and nations went in to start cutting up the whole middle east. Shit hit the fan then. Israel has every right to every inch of that land, they just do NOT have the right to kill every one who wants to live there. They MUST find a way to a decent compromise so the both of them can live comfortably and prosper--if that means dividing the land, then so be it.

There are "radicals" in each group that have to be shut up. Let the reasonable people come to the table.

Personally, I think it was totally rude and a total slap in the face to the Israelis when the Muslims built that dome on Solomons temple mount. That alone is a serious cause for tension. It shouldn't be there. Islam's most holy place is in Saudi Arabia, not Israel...it was a sneaky thing to do.
What in hell is Arafat, the bum, doing with all the money we sent HIM? Like Saddam, he didn't build a damn thing for his people. Where did the money go. He is filthy rich. He isn't even arab. He's Egyptian. He's been causing trouble over there since forever
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-04 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
15. Won't happen as long as TV Preachers brainwash the sheeple.
TV preachers keep saying that Israel is infalliable and doing God's will. Of course the Preachers are also closet anti Semites who can't wait for millions of Jews to be slaughtered at Armageddon!
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DubyaSux Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-04 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
16. Sheesh...
I love how the Jews are attacked for making efforts to protect themselves while ignoring the fundamental problem - the Palestinian charter calls for the destruction of Israel. Their children are taught to hate Jews and are taught to die while killing them.

This conflict has nothing to do with land, an independant state, blah blah blah.

It's all about Israel's right to exist. In the 1940's, nobody would take the jews in and millions fo them were exterminated. So, they created their own state in 1947 and the very next day, were attacked by 6 different countries.

Since then, they've been either expelled or killed in every surrounding country. Want to talk about apartheid? Find a jew in an arab country.

The Pals were expelled from Jordan for blowing up Jordanian mommies and their babies. The Pals are kept out of Israel for blowing up Jewish mommies and their babies. You think maybe there's a message here?

And they keep yelling about an occupation. Occupied by who? The land they squatted on was owned by Jordan and Egypt - not Israel. The Pals allowed armies to amass on their borders to attack Israel (before all this "occupation" nonsense) before the 6 day war prevented that attack. Jordan and Eygpt took back 80% of that land. Where's the outrage there?

The point is, it's easy to find fault with Israel fighting the impossible fight. Everybody loves the underdog, so the Palestinians - never ones to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity - take advantage of people's good nature to exploit that.

But what we end up with, is everybody feeling sorry for the guy that murdered both his parents because the poor guy's an orphan.

When the Palestinians quit training their children to become Martyrs, start teaching the existence of Israel in their school books (which they don't), and stop strapping explosives with screws and nails inside (because they inflict the most damage) so they can murder innocent Jews, the Israelis need to take more proactive actions. Until then, they need to defend themselves from the people trying to destroy them simply because they are Jews.

And by the way, the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism has scientific PROOF that 95% of Palestinian "innocents" killed by Israel are male. It's statistically impossible to randomly kill people at that rate. Israel does it's best, under the circumstances, to target combatants. That is proven.

I hate Bush, repugs, and all that crap as much as everyone here. But I love the truth and many people debating this subject don't know it. The Pals are far more guilty and have shown that historically, all they know is violence.

Want to stop the violence and get rid of walls? Quit blowing up busses...
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. There are so many mistakes in your post
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