Seymour Hersh spills the secrets of the Iraq quagmire

[Englander]

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/10/11_hersh.shtml

>>BERKELEY – The Iraq war is not winnable, a secret U.S. military unit has been "disappearing" people since December 2001, and America has no idea how irreparably its torture of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison has damaged its image in the Middle East. These were just a few of the grim pronouncements made by Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative reporter Seymour "Sy" Hersh to KQED host Michael Krasny before a Berkeley audience on Friday night (Oct. 8).

>>The past two years will "go down as one of the classic sort of failures" in history, said the man who has been called the "greatest muckraker of all time" and (paradoxically) the "enfant terrible of journalism for more than 30 years." While Hersh blamed the White House and the Pentagon for the Iraq quagmire and America's besmirched world image, he was stymied by how it all happened. "How could eight or nine neoconservatives come and take charge of this government?" he asked. "They overran the bureaucracy, they overran the Congress, they overran the press, and they overran the military! So you say to yourself, How fragile is this democracy?"

>>"I think it's real simple to say is a liar. But that would also suggest there was a reality that he understood," explained Hersh. "I'm serious. It is funny in sort of a sick, black humor sort of way, but the real serious problem is, he believes what he's doing." In effect, Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and the other neocons are "idealists, you can call them utopians." As Hersh understands them, they really believe that the solution to global terrorism began with invading Baghdad and will end only with the transformation of the last unfriendly government in the Middle East into a democracy.

>>"No amount of body bags is going to dissuade ," said Hersh, despite the fact that Hersh's sources say the war in Iraq is "not winnable. It's over." As for Kerry's war plans, Hersh said he wished he could tell him to stop talking as if the senator's plan for Iraq could somehow still eke out a victory there. "This is a disaster that's been going on. It's a civil war, the insurgency. There is no 'win' anymore in this war," he argued. "As somebody said, 'We're playing chess, they're play Go.'"<<

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. You cannot lead.... if this is what your leadership is and does. n/t

[leftchick]

2. utopian?

how about fucking insane?!? If they were not in a position of power that is what they would be called.

[sventvkg]

3. This is the biggest problem with Kerry..His stance on IRAQ

I mean, I know 50% of the population are ignorant Sheep, but come on, The War is a sham and unconstitutional...If kerry were really for what is right, he would get us out of there ASAP.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. Win the election first....reveal TRUE plans after the inauguration.

[KoKo]

9. Geeze, Media_Lies....that's what the Bushies Did! Are you suggesting

we need that again? :wow:

[mikehiggins]

5. And if he announced he would pull out the troops in January?

Why not just go home now, and save us the trouble of voting? There was an old saying about a politician that the only way he could lose was if he was found in bed with a dead woman or a live boy.

In this election, pulling out of Iraq is both. There will be enough time to revisit this policy AFTER the votes are cast. Until then, why don't we just concentrate on getting that job done, hmmmyeah?

[izzie]

6. Will I will go with Sy. WE can not win their country for them.

I think we should stand down on this so called war.And on top of it all we have sold all businesses off to large Corp. mostly owned by the US. In other words we are even going to own their city water. It is crazy. Every one in the Middle East knows this so how are we ever going to claim we are doing anything but just plain rape of the country and the Middle East if we get in their.

[teryang]

7. Disappearing people?

<My government has a secret unit that since December of 2001 has been disappearing people just like the Brazilians and the Argentineans did. Rumsfeld decided after 9/11 that he could not wait. The president signed a secret document…There's a team of people, they fly in unmarked planes, they fly in Gulfstreams, they have their own choppers, they don't carry American passports, and they just grab people. And maybe in the beginning I can understand there was some rationale. Right after 9/11 we were frightened, we didn't know what to do …>

Are they grabbing them or murdering them?

[fugue]

8. Ah, but that's the point!

Are they holding them (torturing them?) or murdering them? Their friends and families don't know. And therein lies a very useful terror for the government.

When will the American populace understand that our government is not good?

[Englander]

10. Grabbing,torturing,holding indefinitely...

>>11 terror suspects 'disappear' in US custody.
At least 11 al-Qaida suspects have "disappeared" in US custody, and some may have been tortured, according to a report out today from Human Rights Watch.
The prisoners are being held without access to their families, lawyers or even the Red Cross. They are probably being held outside the US, the report said. In some cases, US authorities will not even acknowledge the prisoners are in custody.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1325560,00.html


http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/10/12/usint9463.htm

[LibertyorDeath]

11. Big Kick

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: