Massacre looms in Fallujah following the US election

[everythingsxen]

The reelection of the Bush administration is expected to be followed in short order by a massive US military push into the Iraqi city of Fallujah. The attack will be the spearhead of a broader offensive to bring 22 rebellious Iraqi cities and towns—including Fallujah, Ramadi, Samarra, Baquaba, Kut and the densely populated Shiite suburb of Sadr City in Baghdad—under US control by the end of the year. The aim is to drown in blood the mass opposition among the Iraqi people to the occupation and clear the way for sham elections in January in which only pro-US parties will be permitted to participate.

Fallujah is the prime target. Both within Iraq and internationally, the city has become a symbol of the Iraqi people’s defiance of the greatest military power on the planet. Resistance groups in Iraq’s western Anbar province have waged a constant guerilla war since Iraq was invaded, and effectively took control of Fallujah at the end of 2003. In April, the city withstood a three-week siege by US marines. The puppet Iraqi interim government has no authority or support in Fallujah and the surrounding area.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/iraq-n05.shtml

[anarchy1999]

1. THIS ACTION MUST BE STOPPED!

n/t

Upon reflection, no one gives a real damn. I'm so sorry.

And I've never been so sick in all my life. I'm so sorry, I can't make this stop. No one can...........

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. America is then a tyranical nation.

[rockydem]

3. Stopped? Fuck let it happen

There's not a damn thing we can do about it.

[mike_c]

6. "Fuck, let it happen...?"

Why not enlist and go help with the slaughter? Nothing but a bunch of brown folks standing in the way of Exxon and Haliburton's quarterly earnings, ay? Hey maybe when they're all dead we can bulldoze their bones into piles and charge admission to the spectacle? Build a coupla big hotels where the wretched survivors can bring us drinks by the pool?

"...let it happen...?" Who will stand up when it's your turn?

[JSJ]

22. that's the same chance you'll fucking get, if i ever...

[daleo]

4. This is awful beyond description

Americans must begin to take responsibility for their actions.

[mike_c]

5. this is far worse than ANYTHING Saddam Hussein...

...ever did to the citizens of Iraq. Iraq was once a prosperous, secular nation with one of the best standards of living in the ME. Then came the U.S. sponsored war with Iran, followed by the Gulf War, a murderous campaign of economic sanctions that killed over one million innocent Iraqis, and finally the invasion and occupation, in which at least another 100,000 have been murdered already.

Saddam Hussein? Oh yeah, he's the bad guy, right?

[Reverend_Smitty]

7. Will this be the next tet offensive?

Is a horrific blood bath what this country needs to wake-up? Not that we can do anything about it now...that fuckhead is in office for the next 4 years...but it would be tragically ironic if this is what causes people to wholeheartedly oppose this war?

[mike_c]

8. no, they'll watch it on CNN and cheer every time...

...there's a particularly big explosion. Oh, I suppose it won't be televised until after the mop up when they've brought in the grateful liberated rose petal throwers, but it would be Monday night football if it were. Just like the bombardment of Baghdad during the initial invasion. Damn, damn, damn. This is so fucking awful.

[Reverend_Smitty]

10. Thats what pisses me off most about this war...

and let me tell you there are a lot of things that piss me off. The media refuses to show the horrors of war. Public opinion started to turn around for Vietnam when the nightly news would show the carnage and read off the names of the dead and REAL newsmen like Walter Cronkite spoke out. Now we can't even catch a glimpse of a flag draped coffin. This administration and the media has turned war into a video game, they have completely removed the human suffering and REAL cost of war from the minds of the American people.

[ilovenicepeople]

18. (not so)Funny you should bring up video games

the evil purpose of the video game, which comes into play once the draft starts, pre trained killing machines with pockets full of quarters.The only solace I can find right know is the fact that we deserve whatever begets us.:cry:

[Systematic Chaos]

24. I take great exception to that statement

I'm sorry, but the violence in video games is only going to affect people in a dehumanizing way if they're ALREADY sociopathic. Plenty of normal and even liberal people enjoy playing games where things die and DON'T believe that you're supposed to feel that way about real people.

[WCGreen]

15. Remember, we won the TET offensive.....

From a military POV...

But it the single most galvanizing event of the Vietnam War for the people of Vietnam....

Remember also that the TET offensive was mounted by the North Vietnamese....

[Nightowl_2004]

20. The Tet Offensive is a bad analogy, a better one would be...

This will be the next "Market Garden." In WW2, after Normandy, the allies got desperate to end the war before christmas and launched a very bold attack into Holland to circumvent German defenses. Unfortunately the paratroopers that dropped ahead to capture 4 bridges for the ground offensive met stiff resistance from Panzer Troops who were dug in along the roads and around the bridges. After a hellacious battle, the paratroopers secured 3 of the 4 bridges and lost well over 10,000 men. The movie "A Bridge Too Far" documented the story, a forgotten tale of a disasterous attack.

Tet was an attack by the enemy. We will be the ones attacking Fallujah and, mark my words, it will be like a Market Garden. An absolute disaster that fails with astronomical casualties....

4 more years of THIS shit!?!?

:puke:

[Contrary1]

9. And the beat goes on...

Asshole couldn't risk alienating any of his sheep in the weeks before the election.

'We've had a leash on for 5 months and we're seeing our buddies die'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x959729

Makes me sick.

[Nightowl_2004]

11. Since * is back in Office, I bet within a month....

we see a massive "offensive" against the insurgency. I'd put big money on it.

[Reverend_Smitty]

13. thats what I'm thinking...

this will be the next tet offensive...only difference is we won't be able to convince the Sheeple that the war is un-winnable

[burrowowl]

12. If it is house to house

lots of causualties for U$.
Still when you think about it, we are very efficient: Iran-Iraq War almost 9 years, 350,000 dead, majority combatants. U$, 1 year 8 months: 100,000 civilians, 50% of which women and children.
Isn't this called genocide?
May God have mercy on America, even if undeserved.

[Comadreja]

26. They won't risk it...he'll use massive bombardment

Daisey cutters, MOAB, or even mini-nuke the place. The invasion will be a mop up of anything still standing. This time they're not even trying the usual laughable excuse of "safe houses." This is an Israeli-style community terror attack.

[Hog lover]

14. We can protest, but this admin will pay no attention - I suggest ---

that we do everything we can to send Army recruiters to every Repuke family with kids eligible for the military. I have no idea how recruiting works, but I just think that Shrub's supporters need to suffer personal losses resulting from his mass murders.

[Comadreja]

27. They seem to be mostly Bush Supporters

I have no sympathy for them or their parents.

[DELUSIONAL]

16. This makes me so sick --

I feel like I felt at the beginning of this Invasion/slaughter -- absolutely completely helpless.

This must be what battered women feel like -- psychological battered women -- with absolutely no way out.

My gut is in knots -- and it is MY country that is doing this blood letting.

The blood of hundreds of thousands of human beings will be on the hand of every single blood thirsty SOB who voted for that pathological lying pus filled malignant bastard from hell.

And there isn't a damned thing we can do about this -- we can't even protect ourselves from this creep.

I really don't see any hope of any change any time soon -- with the e-vote hijacked by the bush crime family and the computer voting machines "recording" about 1/3 of the vote . . . . .

The fucker said that he had "capital" and he was going to spend that "capital" -- that means he can kill as many people as it take for them to kneel down to him and recognize him as emperor of the world.

[wabeewoman]

17. Agree

It makes me so sad. It is not my America doing this and is one of the reasons I would consider leaving this country. I don't want my tax dollars spent to kill innocent people in bush's bloody quest to dominate the world.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. In retrospect this one will haunt the Bush Admin

But right now is the perfect time to pull this off with his zombies. They are high on the win and it will numb the effect of all the deaths. Later on when they come down, some will start to think about it. Not many, but a few. I read it had the potential to yield the highest losses for a single battle since Vietnam. My heart goes out to all of them.

I am sorry, my hands were tied I can not help you now. I will still weep for all the deaths in this meaningless war.

[JSJ]

21. and fucking moderate demos will still 'support those goddamn troops'

[Lone_Star_Dem]

23. What about the Iraqi's? Should they be killed?

And yes, many of the troops have no choice. You don't know what it is like to poor and want to go to college. If you have no money, no credit and no hope of getting out of the hell you live in, sometimes 18 year old kids make stupid mistakes. I know of two personally right now that died for that mistake.

[JSJ]

25. bullshit, apologist, only 21% of post-service personell ever take...

...advantage GI bill benefits. It's truer to say 'the troops' joined up for the chance at easy kills of human beings. Your two dead are a pittance compared to the total- now approaching 1,000,000- Iraqi dead at the hands of your thoroughly fucked in the head US troops. Mistake? A mistake is screwing up at a video game. What your two 'heroes' were doing or did was nothing short of murder.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

29. I hate to tell you

But you are wrong, I am sorry. They (recruiters) were feeding on the poor children that thought they had no hope. They went to lunch with them and romanced them. You can deny it, it's still true. The two that I know that died were not from my school. I should not assume that what they told me was true, since I was not there when they signed up. I do know of many kids that totally believed the BS fed to them by the ARMY recuiter. Once your 18 your free meat to them. They are salesmen for the Army and they lie just like a used car salesman.

And yes, these kids were not killers. They were even told they would probally never see combat. I still have one kid that calls me, he saw combat. He'll never recover.

The recuiters now have to sit in the office and IF a kid comes up to them to talk they can address them. They used to seek out the ones on the college program (that is not the ones taking the minimum graduation program) who came from poor backgrounds. Not all of our Military is formed from natural born killers. Some are stupid kids that bought a lemon.

[JSJ]

31. more bullshit- more apologies...

...Anyone who is so stupid as to be suckered into the military by a goiter-necked recruiter over the promise of a better life and no chance of seeing combat has no business being in the military in the first place (no sane or well-rounded person has any business in there, either). That much stupidity is extremely dangerous. A much better explanation is that recruits are murderous thugs deep in their bloody small hearts. You can ask their mams and paps how they got that way, but it's highly unlikely they'd admit spawning such scum, let alone explain it.

So, where do the Bush's of the world go for recruits to kill and maim people standing in the way of their profits? How about Wal-mart?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

32. I will agree to disagree with you

I know we are on two different polls on this issue. I could argue your point of view being narrow minded and jaded till I am blue in the face. You could do the same with me. We won't agree. I am fine with that.

[JSJ]

33. alright- but maybe you could research just who these troops are...

...and where they're really coming from, mentally and spiritually.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

34. I will

But I really am only talking about the few I knew of personally. I know I get too passionate about my 'cause'. I also will agree that there are many 'all I wanna do is shoot someone' people in the Military. I don't get them either if that makes you feel any better.

[mike_c]

28. just to put that notion into perspective...

...not all of us who grew up poor and without resources relied upon contracts with the devil (or at least the military industrial complex devil) to get an education and make our ways into something resembling the middle class. The "troops" do have choices, although I suspect that few of them really know it.

on edit: just to make my point clear, I do indeed know what it's like to be poor and have limited choices. But there ways out of poverty that don't involve murder for hire.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

30. I agree with you

Seem my post above. I know of kids that were prey to a scam to 'get them into college'. I am not speaking without first hand knowledge of this issue. I have helped several kids not screw up their lives like this since it came to my attention. I don't condone it but it still is happening. It happens to have been a personal crusade of mine so I am, err, passionate (that is mild, eh?) about it.

[AndyTiedye]

36. Most of them Signed Those Contracts When Our Gov't Wasn't Run by the Devil

and the National Guard was devoted to guarding the nation.
Quite a few more signed up after 9/11, expecting to fight terrorism.

Now they know they were wrong to trust their government.
It will be very difficult to get others to do so in the future.

[JSJ]

38. when was that?

[LynnTheDem]

35. US military already preparing for "Vietnam" level of casualties

WITH U.S. FORCES NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq - The number of dead and wounded from the expected battle to retake insurgent-controlled Fallujah probably will reach levels not seen since Vietnam, a senior surgeon at the Marine camp outside Fallujah said Thursday.

https://registration.twincities.com/reg/login.do?url=http://www.twincities.com%2Fmld%2Ftwincities%2Fnews%2Fspecial_packages%2Firaq%2F10100670.htm%3F1c

[wickerwoman]

37. Bush probably wants a massacre of U.S. troops.

What else will create the outrage necessary to make the draft palatable?

And with the draft he can put Syria and Iran into play.

[JSJ]

39. why? 'the troops' are a definate part of his base- know their families are

[GoBlue]

40. Anybody heard of Battle of the Little Big Horn?

"The streets they will be destroying are home to 250,000 civilians, including 60,000 who are still in the city and living in desperate conditions ...

In the November 4 New York Post, Peters wrote: “We need to demonstrate that the US military cannot be deterred or defeated. If that means widespread destruction, we must accept the price. Most of Fallujah’s residents—those who wish to live in peace—have already fled. Those who remain have made their choice . We need to pursue the terrorists remorselessly...

“Even if Fallujah has to go the way of Carthage, reduced to shards, the price will be worth it. We need to demonstrate our strength of will to the world, to show that there is only one possible result when madmen take on America.”

How many troops does the coalition have going in to Fallujah to defeat 60000 potential resisters? Madmen indeed.

[Nihil]

46. Troops? Well, maybe, eventually, ...

> How many troops does the coalition have going in to Fallujah to
> defeat 60000 potential resisters?

They will bomb it to fuck and back first, missiles, heavy artillery,
tanks, helicopters. An Iraqi bodycount will be very hard in the same
way that a World War I bodycount was hard ... there aren't enough bits
left over after an intensive "softening up" operation.

You don't think they want to risk the Marines getting their arses kicked
*again* do you? Have some "rag-tag bunch of rag-heads" beating the best
of the US armed forces (again)? So soon after Emperor ShitForBrains has
claimed his purple cloak?

This time it's got to be a real "victory", no more resistance rising
from the rubble, no more retreating from superior forces. This is to
be the lesson - 'pour encourager les autres' (if only the glorious
leader had the brains to understand that).

This time it is Lidice.

[AliceWonderland]

41. We were warned of this

I remember a few commentators saying this would happen right after the election. Jesus. With this, raising the debt ceiling, Social Security... it's like a whole agenda was waiting in the wings. As if they knew they'd be re-elected. I feel... ill.

ETA: This will be a fucking bloodbath.

[theHandpuppet]

42. Does the term "Amritsar Massacre" ring a bell?

We're about to repeat that bloody and grave mistake the British made in India.

[recidivist]

43. I do not recall that Gandhi's people at Amritsar were carrying guns, ...

car bombing civilians, beheading anybody they can catch, and trying to block elections.

This is a war. The other side, being unable to meet us in the field, has resorted to indiscrimate terrorism.

Time to finish it so Iraq can get on with reconstruction and elections.

[donhakman]

44. Compassion and democracy are marching through the midle east

PS Bush did not bring shock and awe to Iraq, he brought stocks and oil. There simply must have been some mispronounCIAtions goin on.

[theHandpuppet]

45. i don't think this post...

... even warrants a rebuttal, it speaks so very well for itself.

[recidivist]

47. You are free to disagree, but I'm happy to stand with John Kerry on this.

We're in a war. It's essential that we win it. The people we are fighting against are fascists and murderers. You can argue that the game isn't worth the candle and we shouldn't have taken out Saddam to begin with (I would disagree), but that is a separate question. This is a war that, once in, we must win. FWIW, this is John Kerry's position too, last time I checked.

[mike_c]

48. well, warmongering was certainly never my position....

Why don't you enlist so you can go get some yourself? We won't win this "war"-- it's not even a war in the sense that you seem to think-- it's an illegal occupation with a bit ethnic cleansing, Amerikan style. It's a crime against humanity. Your endorsement of it sickens me.

[LibeMatt]

49. Hack and Juan Cole have good pieces today.

Here's some excerpts from Hack's:

URL:
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target%20Homepage.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=90&rnd=682.7474035048874

Text:

"In most of the wars we’ve fought, our leaders have understood our enemies and how to take them down. But in the current shootout – a continuation of the revolutionary fervor first ignited in Algeria in the 1960s, then fanned by the Iranian Revolution, a huge Jihad victory against the Soviets in Afghanistan, Israel’s humiliating withdrawal from Lebanon and its interminable fight in Palestine culminating in 9/11 and our retaliatory invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq – America’s leaders from both major parties and our military and intelligence establishments remain in deep denial and blindly continue to believe that because we’ve got the power, we shall overcome.


"Ditto a large chunk of the American public that has sent me gigabytes of e-mail about how we should do a Goldwater on the bad guys and “bomb them back to the Stone Age” – when that's where most of our 1.3 billion potential Islamic opponents already are. If ignorance is bliss, America might have cornered the market on happiness.


"But unless we get real and bend our brains around what motivates our enemy, we will never prevail against the increasing millions of polarized Muslims who are becoming more united with every explosion of smart bombs and every Yankee occupation boot stumping across their turf.

<snip>

"“Bin Laden has been precise in telling America the reasons he is waging war on us,” writes “Anonymous,” the author of Imperial Hubris, a critically important book that defines Osama and what’s driving his bombers. And the reasons don’t “have anything to do with our freedom, liberty, and democracy, but have everything to do with U.S. policies and actions in the Muslim world.”"

<snip>"

Also, be sure to check www.juancole.com today. It has an outstanding guest editorial and the piece below that one is pretty good as well.

np: Jerry Douglas 7-2-04