Water on Mars? Life next? How does this affect the neo-cons?

[darknemus]

If this doesn't fit in General Discussion, then any mod feel free to move it. But I guess I was specifically curious as to what people thought the political implications of this might be.

According to this article: http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=507B634C-E180-4D2F-966EBB40268C1202 - It appears the Spirit rover has found possible signs of former water on the Martian surface.

Assuming this is true - and assuming further that they find some sort of fossilized microorganism (or actual fossilized creatures of some sort would be even better for the discussion) - What happens to the totally right wing whacked out 'The Devil created fossils to lie to you' type of people. Do they continue this train of thought? Do they allow for the possibility that maybe they're wrong? What really happens?

I know I'm asking you to follow a rather long chain of logic - but I guess my question is, in a nutshell: What happens to the Radical Right when / if life is discovered (either living or fossilized) , definitively, on other celestial bodies than our Earth.

Any thoughts?

-darknemus

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. it will shake them badly...blows their bible thumbing 7 day creation story

to all hell

[pmbryant]

2. "Possible signs of past water" doesn't mean anything

It just means they don't know and are taking wild guesses. (I know all too well how scientists work. ;-) )

But Mr. Christensen warns that the mineral does not necessarily mean the landing site called Gusev Crater was an ancient lake, as is believed. The carbonate could have come from atmospheric dust that interacted with rocks and soil without water present.

As for your main question, if ever life or past life is discovered elsewhere, the Radical Right will not change their ways. They never do. The still deny the age of the Earth and the Universe and the process of evolution.

The only thing that might shake them up, is if intelligent life is found elsewhere. But that would shake ALL of us up! :-)

--Peter

[Terwilliger]

3. they'd say that evidence of life existing elsewhere is "devil's whispers"

or somesuch bullshit

OnEdit: no offense

[DrWeird]

4. If we find any life on mars...

that means life evolved on two different planets in the same system which means that intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is practically undeniable.

[pmbryant]

5. Undeniable?

Single cell organisms are a far cry from nuclear-weapon building intelligence. ;-)

It took us nearly 5 billion years of evolution on Earth to achieve that, so it's not exactly a trivial process apparently.

--Peter

[Cannikin]

9. Time to whip out the ol' Brookings report....

http://www.humanunderground.com/archive/pdf/brookings.pdf

Brookings
For Immediate Release
Relevant Excerpts From The Brookings Institution Report
Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs 1961

(page 30)

"4. Though intelligent or semi-intelligent life conceivably exists
elsewhere in the solar system, if intelligent extraterrestrial life is
discoverd (sic) in the next 20 years, it will very probably be by radio
telescope from other solar systems. Evidences of its existance might also be found in artifacts left on the moon or other planets. The
consequences for attitudes and values are unpredictable, but would vary
profoundly in different cultures and between groups within complex
societies; a crucial factor would be the nature of the communication
between us and the other beings. Whether or not earth would be inspired
to an all-out space effort by such a discovery is moot: socities sure of
their own place in the universe have disintegrated when confronted by a
superior society, and others have survived even though changed. Clearly,
the better we can come to understand the factors in volved in responding
to such crises the better prepared we may be."


This is where listening to Art Bell comes in handy! hehe

[DrWeird]

12. That's the big unknown in the Drake equation.

If we're two for two in the solar system in regards to evolving life and one for two in regards to intelligence than the odds that intelligent life evolved around one of the hundred billion other stars in the Milky Way are astronomical, pardon the pun, let alone the rest of the universe.

[pmbryant]

15. Biased sample

In that case, we couldn't use the "1 for 2 in regards to intelligence" as a meaningful data point. After all, if we were "0 or 2" we wouldn't even be able to ask the question.

We have a biased sample here. ;-)

--Peter

[DrWeird]

18. Yeah but depends on how you define intelligence.

There's chimps and dolphins here too. They're pretty close.

[Liberal Veteran]

22. Agreed...compare a dinosaur to an amoeba and...

...and the dinosaur looks pretty darn smart.

Compare a rock to Bush, and the rock comes off looking like a genius.

[pmbryant]

23. For the purposes of this discussion...

By "intelligent" life, I think we are referring to beings that are capable of complex engineering tasks and written, or coded in some form, language, so as to be able to communicate with us. Or else we'd never find them!

So whales, dolphins, etc don't really count. Furthermore, they developed on the same planet as us, so they don't really count as an independent sample anyway.

And given the Radical Right's feelings about non-human life, I really don't think they would be very impressed by dolphin-like beings on Europa or something like that.

;-)

--Peter

[Webster Green]

14. The very nature of the universe makes it practically undeniable....

The notion that, in this vast universe, only the Earth hosts life, is a reflection of our arrogance. The odds against it are (ahem) astronomical.

[pmbryant]

16. I agree.

But is the nearest intelligent civilization in our neck of the woods (astronomically-speaking), or is it impossibly far away?

:shrug:

--Peter

[Webster Green]

17. O.K. Dr. Wierd...you beat me to it.........

You were posting as I was typing, and I thought I was being so clever!

[alfredo]

21. If intelligent life is found, they will make sure to kill it.

or see if it will work for less than minimum wage.

[peacetalksforall]

6. What will neo-cons do?

They will claim the planet for Israel and Sharon.

[devilgrrl]

7. This can only mean that there's new slave labor work force available...

Imagine that, we've spent our entire lives fearing Martians. Now we can put them to work for next to nothing! :silly:

[peacetalksforall]

8. A slow - flow out-sourcing possibility?

[Junkdrawer]

10. Well, the water for the Great Flood had to come from somewhere...

:evilgrin:

[Devlzown]

11. Here's a guess:

An ancient book is "found" which tells of evil, demonic races of beings created by the angels cast out of Heaven by God. Of course, it will be our duty to destroy them and reclaim the universe for the Almighty. I don't know, though, that might not be far out enough -- let me think a little while longer.

[mlawson]

13. I suspect the fundies will simply say,

"If God didn't mention life on other planets in the Bible, then He had a good reason not to. Why do You People always have to ask questions, anyway?" :o

Remember, The Bible can NOT be wrong. Anything that doesn't quite jibe, you just ascribe to faith (or lack of).

[Minstrel Boy]

19. They'll say Saddam buried his WMD there.

I see a broadening of the war on terra.

[Selwynn]

20. It will shake NOTHING - you can't shake blind dogma

As has happened down through the centuries.. they will make up some explaination for it.

[Cannikin]

24. Do you think they'll send Arnold to start the underground reactor?

and free the oxygen?