A Repuke friend claims Dubya was 'elected'

[Rick Myers]

by the electorial college per the Constitution. I say he was 'selected' by the Supreme Court. Anyone here able to provide the SPECIFIC legal language?

[kentuck]

1. If you assume that he would have won the popular vote in Florida....

if the recount had been permitted to continue, then he would have been elected by the electoral vote. However, the Supremes stepped in before the recount could be completed and declared Bush the winner.

[Warpy]

5. Don't say anything else

...until you read this site, written by a lawyer for the rest of us:

http://www.mediasense.com/itsnotover/SupremeCourt-QA2.htm

It will tell you everything you need to know about the theft of the election and the shameful role the USSC played in tossing the presidency to the wildly incompetent and insanely dogmatic Bush gang.

These guys will live in infamy right along with the Dred Scott bunch, if we have a country left at all.

[NavajoRug]

8. Actually, the Supreme Court had no choice in the matter . . .

. . . because the recount as it was being done was an absolute farce. The Gore legal team should have called for a state-wide recount instead of only four counties. This is what made the U.S. Supreme Court decision inevitable in the case.

[Toots]

18. Before an injunction can be issued someone with "standing"

must ask for it. Bush* had no legal "standing" How could he have been harmed when the votes had yet to be certified and no one was declared winner. The only one possibly that could have claimed "standing" was the voters. The Supreme Court erred in issueing an injunction without legal standing. And Florida State Law required recounts only be allowed county by county so Gore had to follow state law.

[NavajoRug]

23. I don't understand your rationale . . .

Technically, the votes HAD been certified already. It was the Gore team that filed suit to have the certification of these votes overturned. The original deadline for certifying the votes under Florida statute was November 14th, but the Florida Supreme Court ordered the deadline to be pushed back to November 26th. This action in and of itself gives either candidate legal standing no matter how you look at it.

This whole argument falls apart under scrutiny when you consider an absurd extension of this rationale. If the Florida Supreme Court had decided to push the certification deadline back to November 26th of 2001, I think you would agree that EITHER candidate must have legal standing to challenge the ruling.

[Skittles]

12. Bush Inc had the Supreme Court step in

because they were losing Florida

[baldguy]

2. The Electoral College elects the President.

Congress validates the slate of Electors from each state. If the Electors can't come up with a winner, then the Congress gets to vote.

The method of selecting the Electors are up to each state.

The Supreme Court has no Constitutional role in selecting the Pres.

[NavajoRug]

10. The U.S. Supreme Court certainly has a role . . .

If GOP-dominated election boards were tossing out ballots in districts dominated by African-Americans, you can bet your ass I'd want the judicial branch of government involved in this blatant civil rights violation.

[Minnesota Twin]

3. He was elected?

Where was I when that happened? Last I remembered, he was selected, not elected. :eyes:

[newyawker99]

7. Hi Minnesota Twin!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[proud patriot]

4. Article II in the Constitution Was Not Followed

Period End Of Sentence :grr:

Prepared by Gerald Murphy (Cleveland Free-Net - aa300). Distributed by the Cybercasting Services Division of the National Public Telecomputing Network (NPTN). Permission is hereby granted to download, reprint, and/or otherwise redistribute this file, provided appropriate point of origin credit is given to the preparer(s) and the National Public Telecomputing Network.

http://memory.loc.gov/const/const.html
(snip)
Article II
Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

Section 3. He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

(snip)

Prepared by Gerald Murphy (Cleveland Free-Net - aa300). Distributed by the Cybercasting Services Division of the National Public Telecomputing Network (NPTN). Permission is hereby granted to download, reprint, and/or otherwise redistribute this file, provided appropriate point of origin credit is given to the preparer(s) and the National Public Telecomputing Network.

[ShimokitaJer]

11. So how does one file suit against the Supreme Court?

It makes it kind of hard to appeal when they declare themselves not guilty.

[proud patriot]

21. In the book Betrayal of America

and in the Constitution , The must be removed
by the Legislators .

[proud patriot]

6. "None Dare Call It Treason" by Vincent Bugliosi

None Dare Call It Treason
by Vincent Bugliosi

In the December 12 ruling by the US Supreme Court handing the election to George Bush, the Court committed the unpardonable sin of being a knowing surrogate for the Republican Party instead of being an impartial arbiter of the law. If you doubt this, try to imagine Al Gore's and George Bush's roles being reversed and ask yourself if you can conceive of Justice Antonin Scalia and his four conservative brethren issuing an emergency order on December 9 stopping the counting of ballots (at a time when Gore's lead had shrunk to 154 votes) on the grounds that if it continued, Gore could suffer "irreparable harm," and then subsequently, on December 12, bequeathing the election to Gore on equal protection grounds. If you can, then I suppose you can also imagine seeing a man jumping away from his own shadow, Frenchmen no longer drinking wine.
(snip)
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20010205&s=bugliosi

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. Check this one out

http://cronus.com/scotus

All you need to know in layman's language.

[Rick Myers]

13. Thank you all!!!

Don't you just love DU???

THANK YOU!!! I will now prepare my witty and fact-fill retort to this bonehead friend of mine!!!

:toast:

Hi Roni!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[amber dog democrat]

14. The vote tampering in FL was way to

rampant to qualify as an election. GOP fraud underpinned the miscalling of the election - and in the subsequent legal results, the Supreme Court stepped in and apponted Bush to the presidencey.

This was a stolen election, pure and simple.

[arewethereyet]

15. your friend is correct

the Supreme Court made a few rulings regarding how/if questions regarding how a state manages it's electorial representation.

[Bucky]

17. Right. These guys made the ruling

[Toots]

19. By what authority did the Supreme Court get involved?

What case did they take up and how did they issue an injunction without anyone showing "standing"? State law was quite explicit. All votes must be counted by hand if the machines couldn't do it. Florida State Law. Why was that not carried out?

[arewethereyet]

20. two things

first it was not requested, second and this is all that really matters, it could not be done in the timeframe also specified by FLA law.

[NavajoRug]

22. Your post explains it quite clearly . . .

State law was quite explicit. All votes must be counted by hand if the machines couldn't do it. Florida State Law. Why was that not carried out?

You are absolutely correct. But the U.S. Supreme Court got involved in the case because the Florida Supreme Court couldn't even get this "explicit" state law correct. The Gore legal team should have filed for a statewide recount instead of calling for recounts in only four of the counties. Many of us said at the time that this was a colossal blunder, and would eventually result in Gore losing his legal case. How right we were.

The fact that the Florida Supreme Court issued a ruling that basically violated Florida's own state law pretty much guaranteed that the U.S. Supreme Court would overrule them.

The Florida Supreme Court was so clearly wrong in this case that the U.S. Supreme Court decision to overturn their ruling was actually 7-2, not 5-4. The 5-4 decision involved the second part of the case, which was a dispute over the way the issue would be resolved. For the life of me, I don't know what could possibly have served as the basis for the two dissenting votes in the first case -- the Florida court's decision could not possibly stand up under legal scrutiny.

[governmentgoodies]

16. Semper Fidelis

:toast:

Okay, guys. We have to make a concerted effort to remind all the neo-cons and repukes that we come into contact with (always bring hand sanitizer) that Bush was "Selected" and NOT "Elected". I entitled the subject line on this post as Semper Fidelis or Always Faithful to the idea that we will NOT FORGET this travesty! We will not let our voices die out to echoes of history. We must instill this idea into our friends and families as well. We must all stand together, bound by the war cry, "NEVER AGAIN!" The motto, semper fidelis, is no longer for the marine corps. but for us also, the truth corps. That's all.

*ahem* sorry...*gets off soapbox*

gg

[jsw_81]

24. Technically, Bush was elected by the electoral college

But he didn't win those votes properly. Gore won the popular vote and almost cerainly won the state of Florida. The only reason why Bush got "elected" was because of that absurd Supreme Court decision.

[ariellyn]

25. Both: Selected then elected with the award of electoral college votes

Yes Bush and his brother and the RepubliCON supreme court stole the votes of the American people. When issuing the order to halt the recounts, Justice Scalia wrote that the vote-counting had to be halted because it might do "irreparable harm" to Bush. That biased decision gave the election to Bush even though the margin of error in Florida was less than .5% and Florida's constitution mandated a validation of votes in elections that close.

While Gore may have only asked for recounts in a few counties, Florida law required a recount in all counties irregardless of Gore's petition. In Jeffrey Toobin’s book, Too Close to Call, he says a total of 18 counties—accounting for 1.58 million votes, or more than a quarter of all votes cast in Florida—did not carry out the legally mandated machine recount. This was done, Toobin writes, with the full knowledge of Secretary of State Katherine Harris, an appointee of Jeb Bush who also served as co-chair of Florida’s George W. Bush campaign committee. The National Opinion Research Center's study found the mandated machine recount would have given Gore the lead. But there's more.

On November 8, Florida officials announced there were more than 176,000 rejected ballots. However, only 175,010 ballots were recounted--1,427 fewer overvote ballots than counties reported on November 8, and nine fewer undervotes. Where'd they go?

The Washington Post reported that on election night in Volusia County at 10 p.m., after the polls had closed, Al Gore was leading George W. Bush 83,000 votes to 62,000. But when the election official there checked the county's Web site for an update half an hour later, she found a startling development: Gore's count dropped by 16,022 votes, and an obscure Socialist candidate had picked up 10,000--all from a single precinct with only 600 voters. Diebold's electronic voting machines were used in Volusia County.

Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush scrubbed the rolls of 90,000 voters becaused they said they were felons. The truth, of course, was that 58,000 of those people who were not allowed to vote were not felons, and most of those people were black. Ninety percent of Florida's black voters voted for Gore.

Ballot designs in certain counties encouraged voters to both mark a listed candidate and write in the same candidate's name. Such votes were then rejected although they are defined by law as valid votes that should be counted. Florida law, written before the 2000 election, states that all overvotes and undervotes that show the clear intent of the voter, are required to be counted under Florida law. What could indicate clear intent more than people both punching ballot cards AND writing in Gore's name? The University of Chicago's study concluded that Gore would have won on these votes alone. Yet, they were dismissed.

So, yes Bush was elected but he did not get more votes than Al Gore. The underhanded means used to suppress votes in Florida was the most blatantly treasonous act in our democracy's history and it was orchestrated by partisanship and conflicts of interest at the highest levels of state and national government. We cannot allow this to happen again--ever.