Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

CBS/O'Neill, inteview leaves "less" to viewer.....than the Hype?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:23 PM
Original message
CBS/O'Neill, inteview leaves "less" to viewer.....than the Hype?
Edited on Sun Jan-11-04 07:40 PM by KoKo01
I've been watching this for two days....the hype....the leaks.....But....after all the Hype......in the end...it all falls flat.

The "Leaks" were designed to get "WE DU'ERS" on board to "pump the ratings" and the real report seemed to fall flat.

Did any of you watch this? Did you see and hear what I heard?

Just asking. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep
My thoughts were, "is that it"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. My thoughts were there should be "headlines - Bush Lied" tommorow
the part about going to war with Iraq..8 months before 911 doesn't mean anything to you

That this admin took "time off" from cathing OBL so he could complete the oil grab so neatly laid...and what Cheney has been trying to hide.

These are facts..it outlines motive and deception...the president has nowhere to go with 19,000 pages of documents now to be reviewed.

I think this is big.

The fact they could announce impeachment proceedings tonight on 60 minutes is a disappointment to all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
59. the disappointment that
I feel lies in the fact that even though WE knew the lies taking us into this war, listening to O'Neill say this now is like old news.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Leslie Stahl was guilty of a bullshit question too.
Edited on Sun Jan-11-04 07:27 PM by JanMichael
Something like, "So with the economy doing so well were they right about the tax cuts?", she's guilty of repeating the mantra.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logansquare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. The economy is "good"
yes, I'm sure the economy is working fine for Leslie Stahl. Remember, this is the woman who, during the first hints of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, did a story where she attempted to stir up viewers' sympathy by stating that the children of Kosovo looked "like American children," some with "blond hair and blue eyes." Apparently, she doesn't get off planet Georgetown very often.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
49. well if you're Leslie Stahl and own a lot of stock and have a job
it looks just rosy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SayitAintSo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yea ... me too.... "Is that all there is ?"
THat was my feeling... but I missed the first part too ... Is there any way to catch the whole thing again on the web some where ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. I;m sure there's more in the book
all you can really say is we heard all the things in the show in advance and it confirmed what everyone suspected all along and confirmed what's in the energy meeting docs.

WHat did you expect? an impeachment announcement?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. the transcript
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes...Is that ALL there is?
However, I was left with one interesting thought.

O"Neill was not the ONLY source for this book, he was just the only source who went public.

Maybe there are some very high administration officials who are just as disgusted as O'Neill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catfish Donating Member (533 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. good point
I think there's going to be some paranoia in the administration with lots of suspicion about who talked and gave documents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ignatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. And O'Neill took no money from the book, which immediately
takes the "he did it for the money" bs off the table. Her questions were lame, but, not everyone is as far along the learning curve as D'ers are. I suspect many mom and pops will be shocked, obviously about Iraq plans out in the open on January 10,2001, and probably as much by the acknowledgement that the tax cuts were FOR THE RICH and they knew it from the get go.

Americans don't like being lied to and if this finally awakens them from their numbness, they could get very angry.

Let's all help keep this alive by writing our congressmen, making copies of pertinent articles and distributing them in bookstores, churches, schools...etc and write to our local papers.

Shit, pretend to be a shocked repug if need be, but don't let this die out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. I thought it was tempered with lots of info against O'Neill...
one remark which I think the RepubliCONs will use against him is the part where he said HE thought they shouldn't have issued a second round of tax cuts. They're going to skewer him with claims that he was power hungry and wanted to be the president instead of *.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I think for those who are willing to see
through the fog of Bush and his administration this may have shed a little light for them to want more but for others entrenched with him I think not. Seems like a lot of hype to sell a book but one can only hope there is much more behind this surface and we got just a glimpse. O'Neill seemed a little shook to me sort of like the British scientist(forgot name)was pro ported to be before he supposedly committed suicide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. It depends on what you do with it
The Lies for War Unravel
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Monday 12 January 2004

Air Force Lt. Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski wore the uniform of the United States military for most of her adult life. In the last few years, until her retirement last April after 20 years of service, she has watched the infrastructure of American foreign policy creation rot from the inside out. Her view was not from the cheap seats, from some faraway vantage point, but from the hallways where the cancer walked and talked. Lt. Colonel Kwiatkowski worked in the same Defense Department offices where the cadre of hawkish neoconservatives that came in with George W. Bush trashed America's reputation, denigrated her fellow soldiers, and recreated the processes of government into a contra-constitutional laughingstock.

"My personal experience leaning precariously toward the neoconservative maw showed me that their philosophy remains remarkably untouched by respect for real liberty, justice, and American values," Kwiatkowski writes in the January 19 edition of The American Conservative magazine. "I was present at a staff meeting when Deputy Undersecretary Bill Luti called General Zinni a traitor. At another time, I discussed with a political appointee the service being rendered by Colin Powell in the early winter and was told the best service he could offer would be to quit. I heard in another staff meeting a derogatory story about a little Tommy Fargo who was acting up. Little Tommy was, of course, Commander, Pacific Forces, Admiral Fargo."

Kwiatkowski saw these people, and their work within the Office of Special Plans, up close and personal, and has been raising alarms about it for nearly a year. The Office of Special Plans, or OSP, was a Pentagon planning group directed by Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith, who was the department's No. 3 official. The OSP was staffed by the hawkish neoconservatives Kwiatkowski describes in her American Conservative editorial, men who had advocated using the American military to overthrow Saddam long before they came to work for Feith. The day-to-day boss of OSP was William Luti, a former Navy officer who worked for Vice President Dick Cheney before joining the Pentagon. The work of the OSP was, at bottom, to cherry-pick data from intelligence reports to justify an attack on Iraq.

Back in August of 2003, Kwiatkowski wrote, "What I saw was aberrant, pervasive and contrary to good order and discipline. If one is seeking the answers to why peculiar bits of 'intelligence' found sanctity in a presidential speech, or why the post-Saddam (Hussein) occupation (in Iraq) has been distinguished by confusion and false steps, one need look no further than the process inside the Office of the Secretary of Defense." She described the work of the OSP in particular as, "a subversion of constitutional limits on executive power and a co-optation through deceit of a large segment of the Congress". Kwiatkowski claims, in short, that a decision to go to war had been made long before, and that these men at the OSP were fashioning justifications for that decision on the fly, and despite overwhelming evidence to suggest that war was not necessary.

Lt. Colonel Kwiatkowski was not the only one watching the immediate desire for war in Iraq within the ranks of the Bush administration. Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, who lost his job because he dared question the efficacy of giving massive tax cuts to rich people, has stepped forward with some truly remarkable revelations about the way business is done at 1600 Pennsylvania.

O'Neill describes the process of decision-making between Bush and his people as being "like a blind man in a roomful of deaf people." This is not a comforting image when one imagines the deliberations of the most powerful people in the world. Yet the blind and the deaf, according to O'Neill and the 19,000 pages of memos, documents and private National Security briefings he has in his possession, were also adept liars.

Pulitzer prizewinning journalist Ron Suskind has captured O'Neill's views in a new book titled 'The Price of Loyalty.' "From the very first instance, it was about Iraq," says Suskind about his interviews with O'Neill and his review of the documentary evidence. "It was about what we can do to change this regime. Day one, these things were laid and sealed." Suskind got his hands on one Pentagon document, dated March 5, 2001. The document was titled 'Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield contracts,' and included a map of potential areas for exploration. "It talks about contractors around the world from, you know, 30-40 countries," says Suskind, "and which ones have what intentions on oil in Iraq."

O'Neill was afforded a position on the National Security Council because of his job as Treasury Secretary, and sat in on the Iraq invasion planning sessions. "It was all about finding a way to do it," says O'Neill. "That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this.'" This perspective is backed up by former Director of State Department Policy Planning, Richard Haass. Haass has quoted National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice as saying, about pursuing UN cooperation on the Iraq invasion, "Save your breath. The president has already decided what he's going to do on this," in June of 2003.

CBS News reported on September 4, 2002 that notes taken by an aide to Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld clearly state that the process towards war on Iraq was begun five hours after the attacks of September 11 unfolded. There was no evidence linking Hussein or Iraq to the attacks, and there is still none; George W. Bush was forced recently to publicly admit as much, and Secretary of State Colin Powell admitted on Friday that no evidence exists to connect Iraq to al Qaeda.

A report released in 2000 titled 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' issued by the neoconservative think tank The Project for the New American Century states, "The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein." In other words, whatever threat may be posed by Hussein is far less important than the need for the United States to establish a massive, permanent military presence in the Gulf region.

'Rebuilding America's Defenses,' and the think tank which published it, are important for two reasons: The Project for the New American Century had Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld and most of the architects of this Iraq war on its membership role in 2000; the desire and decision to attack Iraq existed in print from the hands of these men before they came to power with George W. Bush. In other words, September 11 had nothing specifically to do with it. "Go find me a way to do this," said Bush well before 9/11 about an attack on Iraq. Rumsfeld, surveying the hole blasted into the side of the Pentagon, had found that way.

The American people were let in on none of this. The scale of the deception is massive.

The American people were told that Iraq posed a direct threat to the United States because of its massive stores of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Those stores included, according to the White House, 26,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, 1,000,000 pounds of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agents, 30,000 munitions to deliver them, and a production line that would rapidly deliver nuclear weapons enriched with African uranium. Because of the "sinister nexus between Iraq and al Qaeda," as stated by Colin Powell before the United Nations on February 5, war was required immediately because those weapons could be delivered to terrorists for use against us.

Still, we were told, George W. Bush would work with the international community on the matter. We were told that war would be the choice of last resort. Reasonable people are running the show in Washington, we were assured, and no one is going to barnstorm into battle unless it is absolutely necessary. The Bush administration drafted Resolution 1441 on the matter of invading Iraq for the United Nations, and put the words "weapons inspectors" into the document. Those two words were the reason 1441 received unanimous consent from the Security Council.

Now, ten months and 500 dead American soldiers later, we have the truth. The decision to attack Iraq was made within days of Bush's occupation of the White House. When the weapons inspectors failed to find any of the arms promised by the Bush administration, that administration attacked and undermined the inspection process and piled hundreds of thousands of combat troops onto the Iraqi border.

"Save your breath," said Condoleezza Rice. "The president has already decided what he's going to do on this."

The Washington Post reported on January 7, "In public statements and unauthorized interviews, investigators said they have discovered no work on former germ-warfare agents such as anthrax bacteria, and no work on a new designer pathogen -- combining pox virus and snake venom -- that led U.S. scientists on a highly classified hunt for several months. The investigators assess that Iraq did not, as charged in London and Washington, resume production of its most lethal nerve agent, VX, or learn to make it last longer in storage. And they have found the former nuclear weapons program, described as a 'grave and gathering danger' by President Bush and a 'mortal threat' by Vice President Cheney, in much the same shattered state left by U.N. inspectors in the 1990s."

Days later, a report by experts on weapons proliferation from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace titled 'WMD in Iraq: Evidence and Implications,' stated that Iraq's weapons programs did not, "Pose an immediate threat to the United States, to the region, or to global security. With respect to nuclear and chemical weapons, the extent of the threat was largely knowable at the time. Iraq's nuclear program had been dismantled and there was no convincing evidence of its reconstitution. Regarding chemical weapons, UNSCOM discovered that Iraqi nerve agents had lost most of their lethality as early as 1991. Operations Desert Storm and Desert Fox, and UN inspections and sanctions effectively destroyed Iraq's large-scale chemical weapon production capabilities. It is unlikely that Iraq could have destroyed, hidden, or sent out of the country the hundreds of tons of chemical and biological weapons, dozens of Scud missiles and facilities engaged in the ongoing production of chemical and biological weapons that officials claimed were present without the United States detecting some sign of this activity before, during, or after the major combat period of the war."

The report continued by stating, "The dramatic shift between prior intelligence assessments and the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), together with the creation of an independent intelligence entity at the Pentagon and other steps, suggest that the intelligence community began to be unduly influenced by policymakers' views sometime in 2002. There was and is no solid evidence of a cooperative relationship between Saddam's government and Al Qaeda. There was no evidence to support the claim that Iraq would have transferred WMD to Al Qaeda and much evidence to counter it. The notion that any government would give its principal security assets to people it could not control in order to achieve its own political aims is highly dubious."

George W. Bush and his people in the White House and Defense Department wanted a war with Iraq. They began seeking a premise for that war as soon as they arrived in Washington. They created the Office of Special Plans to fashion justification out of whole cloth. They browbeat analysts at the CIA and State Department to manufacture frightening portraits of an Iraqi threat that did not wed to reality. They used the terror created by September 11 against the American people to get that war, and lied time and again about the threat posed by that nation. All stated rationales for war - weapons of mass destruction, al Qaeda connections, the likelihood of another 9/11-style attack by Hussein or his agents - have been decisively disproven.

Lt. Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski knew it all along. "War is generally crafted and pursued for political reasons," she says in her American Conservative editorial, "but the reasons given to Congress and the American people for this one were so inaccurate and misleading as to be false. Certainly, the neoconservatives never bothered to sell the rest of the country on the real reasons for occupation of Iraq - more bases from which to flex U.S. muscle with Syria and Iran, better positioning for the inevitable fall of the regional sheikdoms, maintaining OPEC on a dollar track, and fulfilling a half-baked imperial vision. These more accurate reasons could have been argued on their merits, and the American people might indeed have supported the war. But we never got a chance to debate it."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I love your concise and personal discourse /sarc nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
41. Here is an interesting story from a consertive magazine
http://www.amconmag.com/1_19_04/article1.html

It conferms William Rivers Pitt story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Okay, I see a connection in that O'Neill was "unsuspecting" until he dealt
with the Chimp? He believed that "Chimp" was sincere, and had faith that our government couldn't "select" a doofus, lacky as a President because he had been raised with all that Patriotism that most DUers were and so when he finally met the "thief in charge" he was shocked he could be so "incurious?"

I guess I can see that. From Pitt's article and your link about the same story...it seems maybe we DU'ers as Naive and believing in our Patriotism and huge sense of right and wrong, have allies in very "High Places?"

I think I can see the connection....thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fabius Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
58. Absolutely excellent column, Will.
THIS is what you do with it.

I just told my wife the Bushite ship of state just struck its iceberg and is starting to fill with water. It will take a while but it's going down, down, down.......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
economic justice Donating Member (776 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. This 60 Minutes report is not "the" story!
The story is the BOOK. Remember, the report was just warmup for the book. It did what it was supposed to do. I thought it was awesome.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShimokitaJer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. I wouldn't say "less"
But it was definitely "no more" than we already had access to. There was quite a bit of information released beforehand.

Still, this is the only version most Americans will see, and I think it will be very effective. Just remember your reaction when you first saw this over the course of the last week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. I disagree
I've been out of the political news loop for a few days and didn't hear about this story until this morning, but even then all I got was that O'Neill was saying something bad about the admin. I figured I'd hear about it tonight and didn't bother to read up on it anywhere. Watching 60 minutes tonight I was SHOCKED. Really. That was some really serious shit he and the author talked about, and I think it really strikes at the image the White House likes to paint. The part about Bush saying something like, "but didn't we already give the rich a tax cut?" was particularly stunning to me.

My point is that I came to the show as your average American might've come to it - not really following the story too closely and just hearing it all for the first time on 60 minutes. Don't underestimate the impact the segment might have on moderate, independent voting - or even intellectually honest conservative - Jane or Joe Average.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
economic justice Donating Member (776 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I think you are exactly right. <eom>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. I third it - IT WAS DAMNING TO THEM- eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
54. Thanks "ant" for your perspective. Sometimes I get caught up in knowing
the story from reading so much ahead of time, that I forget about the "average" veiwer. My expectations from knowing what we all know here, get the best of me.

If you thought it was good then that gives me hope, since you came to the story cold or just hearing a little blurb. Maybe the folks out there who are just trying to get along in their lives will find it shocking, too. I hope so. Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #54
62. Also, don't forget that when 60 Minutes does these exposes
the viewer tends to believe whoever is going on the "offensive" (in this case, O'Neill), accusing someone else of being crooked in one way or another. The fact that the story is being covered by a national, and typically very credible, media source such as 60 Minutes will automatically sway the viewer to O'Neill's side. On top of all that, what he's saying fits in with all of the other lies and abuses the Bush administration has forced upon our country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. Watch the narrative structure
It's much more important than the actual content in terms of spin control.

That stuff at the end about O'Neil not having a clue that he's painting an unflattering protrait of the *administration was carefully sequenced to help put things back in the box, as was the final comment from McCellan.

There are two narrative arcs for this kind of story. One starts with a defense of the target and ends with the big torpedoing statements; the other leads with the torpedos and ends with the defense of the target. The editorial decision as to which one to go with is complex, but it is essentially the calculus by which the editor convinces him or herself that the story is "balanced." We got "both sides" of the story, here, but they selected the clips and arranged them in such a way as to leave O'Neil's credibility, rather than Bush's, as the final question in the viewer's mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
economic justice Donating Member (776 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Do you think then....
that the administration is happy tonight about that segment since it ended the way it did....the last two or three sentences?? Do you thinkn they would trade "their" time with O'Neill and Suskind's?? I doubt that very much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. You miss the point
Obviously they'd rather not have this story out there at all. But given that it was, there were essentially two ways to handle it, and this was the better way for Roveian damage control.

Take that clip about O'Neil "not knowing" this was damaging to the *admin--they framed it so that it looked like he was oblivious. In fact, I suspect he was being dryly ironic. But they obliterated that. How? By inserting that comeback question: "You really don't think they'll be upset???" Guess what: those questions are filmed after the interview and cut in separately. If he was being ironic, you'd never know it--it's easy to change the tone of something this way.

And why did they pick that clip out of the hour's worth of footage they shot, or however much it was? And then follow it up/go out on the McClellan comment?

These are all editorial choices and they aren't made by mistake. People's memories are notoriously short, that's why the LAST question you leave people with is the most significant.

"Well, he said some bad stuff about Our President, but how reliable is this guy really," is where they wanted to leave you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. I agree with you -- if it had to be

on "60 Minutes," this was the best way to do it, from Rove's point of view.

McClellan got the last word.

There will be people who don't read future stories about it because they "saw it on '60 Minutes' and there's nothing to it."

Make sure to talk this up to counteract the spin.

Write letters to the editor about the issues O'Neill raised and about how CBS spun the story.

Wrte to CBS about the spin. Stahl either knows better and should be reprimanded or she doesn't know better and should be fired.

Read the book, then write letters to the editor about interesting details.

Call or e-mail various news shows to request that they have O'Neill AND Suskind as guests.

Remember how the GOP went after Clinton, having nothing on him but looking for anything they might use. We have things on Bush, and planning a pre-emptive war at the start of your administrative is a lot more serious than consensual hanky-panky between a president and an intern. It lacks the titillation but no one was killed when Clinton was fooling around with Lewinsky.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Serenity-NOW Donating Member (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
57. I'm pretty sure you might have this backward
Otherwise News stories would end with the Lead. Instead they make the point up front and gradually work down to the less important parts. Try this small experiment- join a group of people and form a circle then have each person say a word in succession with each new person repeating the words spoken previously and then adding their own. You'll see in no time that the last words spoken are the first forgotten.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. again, I disagree
The segment ended with O'Neill saying, "Why would I be attacked for telling the truth?" That's a pretty powerful statement, and if you want to take the "how was this edited" angle you can't overlook the fact that that was basically the last thing viewers heard.

I went to read the Time article, too, and the ending there is kind of funny. O'Neill says something like, "I'm an old guy, and I'm rich. What can they do to me?"

Famous last words, perhaps, but still funny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
46. You have a point.....and maybe it's "drip, drip, to set it all up in a
Edited on Sun Jan-11-04 10:34 PM by KoKo01
sequence for the "average viewer" so that "little bits" can be digested a morsel at a time....and the media and CBS in this case, set it up that way.

We on DU are about 2 years ahead of everyone else, so maybe your scenario makes sense. I put what you said in my terms, and hope I got your meaning..in the way you intended. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. Fuck no, strongly disagree.
CBS leaked the story to get the ratings of DU'ers? Come'on.

The viewers of 60 minutes still outnumber the membership of the DU.



It's interesting to compare your reaction to astrology "news" and this event.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. You sure are being critical of KoKo

(and Will, too) and I can't see that either has done you any harm.

If you disagree with KoKo's assessment of the program, why not address that?
Why make your disagreement personal?

I agree that it wasn't leaked to get DU'ers in particular interested in the show but if you take KoKo's use of "DU'ers" to be a meme inclusive of anyone not fond of the Bush administration, she may be right.

And why mention astrology "news"? If you're not into astrology (and I'm not), why are you reading it? If you don't respect anyone who is into astrology, maybe you should put them all on Ignore so you can easily avoid their thoughts on anything else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Well.....Dem Bones.....some folks can't get over that one can have a brain
Edited on Sun Jan-11-04 10:35 PM by KoKo01
and think for themselves if they "visit & post" on "Astrology sites."

Sort of an "Amazing Randi thingy.." but, whatever.....I just say what I think...and can't get into the "hidey hole" and be "catergorized."

Thanks...:-)'s and I know you are fair and would fight me on other issues so I thank you again for being "fair."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. But it is the author of the book, Ron Suskind.....
that still has access to 19,000 pages of notes and documents...One would have to assume there is a lot of information that has not made it to the public. Like, who sat in on the secret Cheney energy meetings? Paul O'Neil was one. Did he name the others? What was discussed? What other NSC topics were discussed in those 19,000 pages? There is so much more to his story. Let's hope that it does make it to the public consciousness before November, 2004...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
45. Agree, Kentuck! thought they would ge much more into Suskind's book and
the "leaks" seemed to lead up to that, but they did "O'Neill Light" IMHO. But, I guess, considering....we should be glad for the few "sound bytes" we can get.

But, understand what you say.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nope - WTF are you trying to convince people of
is this damage patrol? he gutted the Bush admin...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I agree...
it was damning. It did go soft towards the end, they did seem to try discredit him, but the damage was done baby!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sparky McGruff Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
61. I think the ending was genius
The standard attack is "it's sour grapes from an incompetent." "The poor baby's just trying to hurt us to get back for having his feelings hurt"

Ending the way they did -- "I don't think I'm being unflattering" "I don't think they'll attack me for telling the truth" -- is about as good of a way as I can think of to pull the rug out from that argument.

I also think the "I don't think they'll attack me for telling the truth" is, in some ways, a "bring it on" comment. In other words -- I've got the documents backing my statements up. Attack me as much as you'd like. If you do, those documents will come forward to show that I was right.

BushCo can't stand the light of facts. It's like sunlight to a vampire. And, they know that he's got his files. Gotcha.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #61
63. Hee hee!
Your post made me giggle with glee. }(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. It was Hype......but the "good stuff" was Leaked Big Time before report sa
saying that there is a "movement afoot" working for us...to discount and discredit the Chimp and his PNAC/BFEE policies?

That's what I see....but I could be "out to lunch, here." I realize this....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. let us know when you're back from lunching. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. What were you expecting?
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. ROFL , to you greyl......funny! N/T
:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. Of course we all know they usually leak

practically the entire story in advance but this one seemed especially "empty" after the leaks.

Lesley Stahl accusing Paul O'Neill of attacking the president (or however she phrased it) was especially lame. She indicated that she felt bad because of what O'Neill said about Bush.

Journalism should present both sides of a story but not by commenting on how one side made the journalist "feel." Journalists should be concerned with ideas more than feelings, unless they're doing a feel-good (or feel-sad) story involving children or puppies.

I'll be interested to see the book. Amazon's going to have it for $21 ($30 is list price) -- is the boycott against Amazon still on? I've bought from Powell's before, I'm just used to turning to Amazon for reviews.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. I agree that it's damaging to *moron
Edited on Sun Jan-11-04 07:56 PM by dweller
and don't think 60 Mins caters to DU viewpoint.

my only complaint was that Stahl cut off O'Neill during the end (as most media hose are inclined to do these days) to a question she had asked, he was answering and in the middle of his answer, when she realized what he was saying? or where he was going with it, either she clarified/changed the question as if to make sure he answered more to her liking.
And i wanted to hear what he was saying first, the whole complete thought and statement...

did anyone else catch his half statement about what he could expect the WH reaction would be? It came before his 'only the Truth' comment.

dp
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. What I Thought Was Most Damaging Wasn't Part of the Pre-Hype
It was how they used the footage from the Bush campaign talking about stretching the military thin, nation-building, etc and contrasting it with the charge that within 10 days of the inaugeration ...

We knew about the 10 days part, but using the footage was an underscore and a big one at that. They didn't say "Bush lied." They showed us the lie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bringiton Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. This is my first post on DU and .......
I have to disagree, the 60 minutes piece really pissed me
off. Drawing up maps of IRAQ that early in the administration?
I'm ashamed to be from Texas. I'm ashamed of our president. Wait a minute, I sound like the Dixie Chicks, I better be quiet here in Texas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
economic justice Donating Member (776 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. WELCOME!!
Welcome to DU, bringiton!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Welcome to you bringiton......glad to have you here!
:-)'s
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Welcome to DU, bringiton!

:hi: There are other Texas Dems here, you'll be happy to know.

I'm glad to see that people who didn't hear the hype WERE pissed off by the revelations. I hope that's the main reaction. This SHOULD wake people up but CBS did what they could to make it into a little blip that'll go away quickly.

Talk it up, DUers! Write letters, make phone calls, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. Welcome! Get ready to become even more ashamed of the pres.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fabius Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #34
60. Welcome to DU! And don't be ashamed of Texas.
Molly Ivins is from Texas.

Jim Hightower...

My sister (also a Democrat).

I think the piece was just stunning especially for the casual viewer who wasn't expecting it.

The juxtaposition of the Bush* "modest foreign policy" speech and the immediate start on Iraq war planning...

The oilfield maps...

Yikes! It really is blood for oil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. Let me begin by saying this was the most critical-of-Bush interview...
Edited on Sun Jan-11-04 09:07 PM by Junkdrawer
on TV for quite a while. OK, that being said, there were several points in the interview where O'Neil was clearly going further than CBS felt comfortable airing and where he was clearly cut. And it was cut in such a way as to make it seem that Stahl cut off his answer with a critical follow-up. In short, it was cut to make Stahl seem more like a Paula Zahn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. Disagree. It was devastating.
Edited on Sun Jan-11-04 10:01 PM by gulliver
O'Neill and Suskind blammed the Bush Administration right on the snoot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. it was a "black eye" and grounds for impeachment - CNN can get lost
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
48. I thought it was powerful - it portrayed the prez as an incompetent bully
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Exposed him, actually.
And "incompetent bully" is about the most accurate two-word description of b*sh that I've ever read. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. exposed, yes...the truth comes out about the incompetent bully
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
55. I think the map might lead to treasure
who is in charge of those oil wells then/now?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
56. So, you would rather believe the spin produced by the...
...lapdog mainstream media than the actual substance of the information that O'Neil has unloaded on the NeoCons?

You do understand that the mainstream media is working in tandem with the NeoCons, don't you?

Just asking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC