Ralph Nader sometimes makes sense

[GURUving]

he supports Kucinich, but he doesn't even want to be a Green anymore. He may run as an Independent. Why would anyone support him? I like many of his ideas, but his actions create havoc with the constitution.

Go ahead and exercise your right to free speech, but damn, have a little common sense.

If one's actions cause the nation to turn to, without a doubt, pure corporatism/fascism, how can one continue to feel okay about their choices?

If I lived in fantasy land, Dennis Kucinich would be president.
I don't.
Common sense.
Where has it gone?

edit: link to cspan

forget it. Just go to cspan.org

[Democrats unite]

1. Ralph Nader is best served as a Consumer reporter...

eom

[Terwilliger]

2. George W. Bush is a moron, and Democrats are trying to catch up

Nader may have a better point than you give him credit for.

[corporatewhore]

3. as opposed to the corporatism and facism that the dems want

[fla nocount]

4. It's my meanness of spirit I know.

To me Nader will always be an ambulance chaser. His staged dangers will always be his hallmark. The younger folks can have him...to much WWF for me, not to mention his role in S..election 2000. He's the Anti-Perot, a pale imitation of LaRoche.

Change my mind, please, I feel so jaded.

[ulysses]

6. you seem happy enough.

Change my mind, please,

Why?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. wow. a simple question for you

okay, two simple questions.

"He's the Anti-Perot, a pale imitation of LaRoche"

1. Are you familiar with Ross Perot and Lyndon Larouche, and have you ever read anything by them?

2. Have you read anything by Ralph Nader?

K? Thanks! :)

[fla nocount]

16. Okay

Whipping a (then) compact car (the Covair around a race track until the independent-suspension failed), turning on a front controlled stove and daring your Darwin challenged child to put their hand on the burner, not to mention locking same child in a refrigerator to suffocate.

I admitted to my meanness of spirit but I didn't cop to the fact I'm damn near as old as the spoiler himself. Even at a tender age I gravitated towards good parenting behaviors and and innate common sense. I formed my Nader-dar then, I asked to have my mind changed as well....Jeez-Marie.......I'm innocent here. As for LaRouche, the adept attempt an attack at my pocket monthly. If I thought they had a ghosts chance at creating Burrough's world I would let them in, they sure are fun on the phone though. However, they are no different in advocating a heavy-handed approach as "necessary" to the "common good" as the Bushites.

Getting late, Argue-hole starting to fail, this is my third trip back to this response as life interfers. Goodnight friend.

"The more success the quantum theory has, the sillier it looks."

Albert Einstein

[jpgray]

5. Nader is good as a leftist voice; as a candidate he is mostly worthless

He can't win any elections, and he can't make a discernible impact as a candidate, either for his own party, or for leftist values in general.

edit: Kucinich is my current favorite, by the way--Nader's views are fine, his campaigns stink.

[sendero]

7. I agree with a great deal...

... of his words. It is his actions I have a problem with :(

[WealthAndDemocracy]

8. Nader may run as an Independent?? WTF?

I thought he was player the spoiler as a Green. That's no fun for him anymore? :shrug:

[ShimokitaJer]

10. Either you have a short memory, or you're too young to remember

Nader makes a hell of a lot more sense a hell of a lot more often than most people on this list ever give him credit for. I wonder how many of us happily typing away on this board would have been dead if not for the safety features that no one cared about until Nader demanded them, by filing lawsuits against all the large automobile companies at great personal risk.

You think he sprang full bloom into the 2000 elections and the Greens chose him because he was so darn cute? They chose him because he represents the best a citizen activist can be. You like MoveOn and TruthOut? Nader was building activist networks on the internet before either of them existed.

And yet he is condemned because he had the gall to point out that the two-party system is a detriment to rule by the people, and because he had the gall to run for president in a year when the Democrats couldn't be bothered to work for liberal causes. So keep on blaming Nader for taking away Gore's presidency in 2000 -- he's a lot smaller target than big mean old Bush n' Cheney. And I hope he does stay out of election 2004. At least then if we lose we might actually consider the possibility that our own political sloth is to blame rather than putting it all on the shoulders of a scapegoat.

[jpgray]

11. Here's why I condemn him as a candidate

He did not secure his target percentage of the vote. He did not advance the cause of the Greens or the Left on the national stage. He did not influence the Democratic Party to move to the left, in fact it has moved to the right. He did not help third parties gain ground--the major third parties all have lost national ground since his candidacy.

If "heightening the contradictions" is his goal, he may claim some small victory in that, though he did not cause Bush's rise to power. Stating that he prefers Republicans win is indefensible to me. Unfortunately one who prefers a period of greater suffering and death is not someone who is worthy of my esteem and certainly is not worthy of my vote. I hope Nader abandons his interest in "heightening the contradictions"--actively hoping a disaster occurs for the noblest political end is hardly as admirable as trying to prevent the disaster.

[ShimokitaJer]

12. Here's why you have no right to condemn him as a candidate

Because he's not a Democrat. Just as Bush shouldn't care what you think of him as a candidate since you're not going to be voting for him, neither should Nader.

You think he should be a Democrat? Well that's your baggage, not his.

You want to make him a Democrat? Then help the Democratic party move closer to his ideals and you may get your wish. Nominating Kucinich would be a good start, but I think we all know that's not going to happen.

What you do not have the right to do is to demand his loyalty and tell him to trust you that the Democratic party will move to the left later. We have some great candidates in the race who appeal to me as a Democrat, but I'm not under any illusion that even my favorite is anywhere close to Nader on the issues. So why should he support them?

You talk a lot about what Nader failed to do, but you don't make a convincing case that his run had negative effects. You think he cost Gore the election? Well how about those 20% of Dems who voted for Bush? How about that fiasco in Florida that the Dems didn't fight against? You think his presidential run is responsible for the Democratic party's shift to the right? Well, I think you've confused cause and effect.

Face facts: Nader is not a Democrat. Perhaps he used to be, but it wasn't him that moved away from his principles. The Democratic Party left him.

[jpgray]

13. LOL! Read the post next time. Nader would be appalled

When you find the part of my post where I asked Nader to be a Democrat, or the part where I demanded his loyalty, or the part where I blame him for 2000, let me know. I don't call for party-switching or loyalty oaths, nor do I claim unusbstantiated statements as fact. If Nader were a Democrat, I'd feel the exact same way as I do. His party and political history have much less to do with my disappointment than his long-term strategic view. His views are for the most part spot on. I disagree with Nader about how to bring those views about. If he turned his back on "heightening the contradictions", I would consider voting for him very seriously. Sorry, I just can't root for somebody that *roots* for the disaster. His recent appearance on Crossfire was very good.

[ShimokitaJer]

15. Sorry. I guess I'm feeling confrontational

I must have spent too much time in the GD primary forum today.

I apologize for the undeserved attack.

[Terwilliger]

17. I still think you're wrong

he didn't root for disaster...he was trying to warn you about the disaster 4 years ago

you didn't listen

[rumguy]

14. when he rails against the abuses of corporate America

he makes a lot of sense