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A question to military buffs ~ Is White Phosphorus a chemical agent?

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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:27 PM
Original message
A question to military buffs ~ Is White Phosphorus a chemical agent?
Willy Pete is something we use all the time or at least used to. When I was in the military we used Willy Pete on the Vietnamese daily. Is it considered a chemical agent and if it isn't why not?
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SanchoPanza Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not a "military buff", but...
Under the Geneva Conventions, which IMO in this area is completely subpar, a chemical weapon entails....

a. Toxic chemicals and their precursors, except where intended for purposes not prohibited under the Convention, as long as the types and quantities are consistent with such purposes.

b. Munitions and devices, specifically designed to cause death or other harm through the toxic properties of those toxic chemicals specified in subparagraph (a), which would be released as a result of the employment of such munitions and devices.

c. Any equipment specifically designed for use directly in connection with the employment of munitions and devices specified in subparagraph (b).


For the purpose of elaborating subparagraph (a), the Conventions go on to list non-prohibited purposes.

-Industrial, agricultural, research, medical, pharmaceutical or other peaceful purposes
-Protective purposes, namely those purposes directly related to protection against toxic chemicals and to protection against chemical weapons
-Military purposes not connected with the use of chemical weapons and not dependent on the use of the toxic properties of chemicals as a method of warfare
-Law enforcement including domestic riot control purposes


Now, fully admitting that I don't know the real answer, it is possible that WP ordinance (usually grenades) don't fall under the Convention because their primary functions are signaling and screening, with an added benefit of showering any nearby enemies with particles heated to 5,000 degrees. There is also the matter of White Phosphorous not being a toxic agent, in that its combat effectiveness does not rely on producing a toxic reaction. The same is true of napalm: sure, if used effectively it can incinerate hundreds of people at once, but if it doesn't cause death through toxicity then it can't be classified as a chemical weapon.

The Conventions definitions of biological weapons are much clearer, though.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not classified as such.
It is not considered a carcinogen either. The good thing abpout WP is that it reacts fairly quickly with oxygen to form relatively harmless chemicals. (I do remember that with a wind shift blowing the smoke from Charles's pos back into us, breathing could become an adventure for a few minutes.)
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nope...Willy Pete burns....
and the burns cause the damage. A chemical weapon basically poisons you, it doesn't cause the same kind of damage.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Nasty stuff when used in war
It is used for illumination, creating fires (like during the bombing of Dresden) and fireworks.
Both white and pink or red phosphorous.
My HS French teacher was saved by people in a damaged improvised air raid shelter at the end of WWII during the bombing of Royan. She was pinned and the people dug channels in the dirt to keep it away from her. A mortally wounded German enlisted man was not so lucky. She said she remembered being terrified (she was 12 years old) and like the German soldier everyone cries out for their mother when dying. She told us about this during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Everyone was pretty much damned scared.
Another fellow I know, who was a Yugoslav got phosphored in Italy during WWII. Still had pain from phospherous in his back (it pretty much stays in the body and gradually works itself out, but when it does, very painful). This was in 1981 when I met him.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. Any others
know about the nasty effects of phosphorous on the body?
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Kinkistyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Ignites when exposed to air.
White Phosphorus ignites when exposed to oxygen at around 35degrees Celsius. So you can't really "put it out", because it will just reignite when re-exposed to air. It burns and destroys the skin and actually delays the healing process.

here is a informative site: http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic918.htm
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yup...it'll burn the hell out of a body.
eom
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