I think fur pisses me off

[Renew Deal]

I am not an animal activist or a PETA freak. I eat meat and wear leather shoes. I don't have a problem with testing on rodents and animals. Believe me, if you lived in NYC, you might want testing on rodents too.

Anyway, I am seeing a lot of women wearing fur this winter. It really pisses me off and I am not sure why. I feel that people do not need to wear fur. There are many other materials that can be used for clothing and especially coats. I really think about saying something to the people I see, but I haven't yet.

Is fur still a status symbol? I mean, I have seen the old ladys at the orchestra wearing it, but they come from a different time (I mean old).

Should I say something? What should I say without ending up in a fight or screaming match? Does this piss you off too? Thanks

[tkmorris]

1. Not seeing your perspective

How is leather different for example? Other materials would certainly serve the purpose. In that regard it's the same as the fur.
I believe eating meat falls into a slightly different category though I'm sure some will disagree even with that.

[7th_Sephiroth]

14. even buddah was not a vegetarian

meat is eaten because it is sustanance, leather is worn because it is durable Fur is worn as fashion, tho if you wanted, and you cut it right it could be wanr for warmth, but leather would be better

[Eric J in MN]

2. We don't need to consume meat or fur.

People are healthier if they don't eat meat.

Without meat, people consume fewer saturated fats and are less prone to heart attacks. Vegetarians avoid toxins which build up in animal fat.

I agree that you shouldn't buy fur, but consider if your reason doesn't apply to meat as well.

Anyone who wants vegetarian recipes, etc., can visit the message-boards of:
http://www.vegsource.com/

[MoonRiver]

3. I hate it. It represents unnecessary cruelty for vanity and NOTHING else.

I AM a vegetarian. I'm not an on the ground animal rights activist but I only buy vegan products, that were NOT tested on animals. Thanks for that thoughtful post. :hi:

Oh, and I wouldn't say anything unless you're with a group of other protestors. It doesn't do any good against the dittoheads and can get you into trouble.

[Sterling]

6. I agree.

If we needed it it might be different. It's like driving an SUV. Totally over the top and selfish.

[Sterling]

7. I agree.

If we needed it it might be different. It's like driving an SUV. Totally over the top and selfish.

[Lorien]

52. I'll second that

It's a status symbol that comes at the price of a great deal of pain, fear and death to the animals that provide the fur. Plus it's f*cking hideous! Women go to great lengths to take the hair OFF their bodies, then they wrap themselves up in pelts to look like a gorilla? :wtf:

[Cleita]

4. Trapping wild animals is a cruel affair as is raising

animals in small cages, like chinchilla and ranch mink. I love the feel of fur, and it is very warm, but modern fabrics really make using fur unnecessary. In NYC, maybe one can understand it, but I hate to see fur worn in Southern California. There is no reason for it unless you are way up in the mountains.

[Pithlet]

5. It pisses me off, too.

For those who will point out that wearing leather is hypocritical if you hate fur, there is a difference. The sources of leather, at least, have other important uses. Vegetarians would disagree, but eating meat (within reason) is practically a requirement for humans to be healthy. I know you can be healthy as a vegetarian, but it is harder and more expensive.

Minks, on the other hand, are only killed for vanity's sake. They are kept in horrible conditions. And all so that someone can flaunt their status and, in their opinion, look good. Fur is usually considered more luxurious and is much more of a status symbol than leather is, so it is more conspicuous. There's something obscene and in-your-face about fur.

[leftchick]

8. It pisses you off Because...

Fur Is Not A Fabric....... It Belongs to someone...

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. No it doesn't

Though I won't wear it, it is no different than leather. I also eat meat.

[Mikimouse]

9. How about this for a suggestion?

Under the right circumstances (when you can get a one on one for example), ask the wearer how many parts of the animal they are wearing went to waste? I have no difficulty with wearing deerskin (I do myself), but I also eat venison as my first choice. you might ask the wearer if the Seal meat was good in a fricasee, or perhaps a gumbo. MMmmmm, mink on a stick, now there's an enticing idea. you get my point.

[truth2power]

10. Me, too.

I can't imagine myself ever wearing fur. Of any kind. Yuk!!

[bhunt70]

12. Truthfully, and I'll probably get flamed for this but...

I've always wanted a full length fur coat. Not a new one, but a used one from the 30's or so like they use to wear back in the day...

My wife would kill me, but we all have our quirks.

I respect your views on it though and can understand where you are coming from.

[7th_Sephiroth]

16. yeah, thats kinda like me

and wantin a Humvee (not to be confused with an H-2)

[NashVegas]

51. My Mom Gave Me Her Old One

Floor lenght muskrat from the '50s. It was actually a pretty nice coat, and VERY warm. I had it for about 5 years, but gave it back when I went vegetarian. It's still in her home, somewhere.

I gave up on the vegetarian thing, though.

[Piperay]

13. I HATE fur

it is so rethuglican. :puke:

[meow2u3]

56. I like fur--as long as it's on a live animal

eom

[Nihil]

15. Is there ANY food animal fur?

I'm a carnivore and I wear leather (and would wear deerskin or pigskin
if appropriate) but will not wear fur.

I've always viewed the use of the "wrappings" of my food as a far more
efficient (also ecologically-sound) use of the source animal than just
taking the food and leaving the rest to rot.

The veggie/carnie argument is significantly different from fur/no fur
but keeps getting dragged into it. I also believe that the fur/no fur
argument is quite different from leather/no leather as the former is
a single-use "product" of a wild animal or one raised for that one
purpose.

Question for the board: Is there any fur that comes as a by-product
of a (Western) food animal?

(The use of 'Western' is to keep this in the frame of reference of
the question and to avoid side-tracking about imposing "our" food
values on other cultures.)

Nihil

[Mairead]

28. Rabbit.

Rabbits are eaten in Europe, and rabbit fur is frequently dyed to resemble mink and similar.

[Nihil]

32. Thanks

Should have thought of that!

Nihil

[bearfartinthewoods]

50. wascally wabbits

rabbits are commonly eaten here. my neighbor raises them.

[Lefta Dissenter]

63. Well, I'd love to see you in your lovely

Pig-fur coat! :) One hair every three square inches.

[Nihil]

67. Oink!

Yes but that one hair has the ability to hold all three square inches
worth of mud that surrounds it!

At one time I had a pig skin ("pig leather") hat - waterproof, tough,
comfortable - so might wear something like that again ... while eating
my bacon sandwiches :-)

[veganwitch]

70. yeah, its called leather.

it just usually has the hair stripped from it.

[Guaranteed]

17. "Marge....I think I hate Ted Koppel!

No, wait- I think he's informative and witty. 'Night!"

Sorry. Your post's title forced me to say that.

[RebelOne]

18. I gave all my furs away years ago after I became a vegetarian.

When you see someone wearing a fur, you could ask them if they know how many animals were anally electrocuted for that fur coat.

[blondeatlast]

19. I'm a meat eating, leather wearing non-PETA type who agrees 100%

I know enough to know that when a cow is slaughtered, very little of it goes to waste (one of the reasons we are facing the mad cow mess!). But fur is just sick.

I wouldn't bother with older women, but when I see spoiled princesses wearing it, it is hard to hide my disgust.

[Riptide]

20. I am having a fur dilemma right now...

My mom (age 71) died from Alzheimer's a year ago. I loved her very much, she was a wonderful mother. My dad gave me her full length black mink coat. It has her initials embroidered inside of it.

I just don't know what to do with it. I have never worn it, and probably never will. However, I think my dad would be upset if I sold it. He bought it for her for their 40th wedding anniversary and was so proud. (I know, I know, but don't be too hard on him. He is 75 years old and a liberal. Plus, he came from Montreal where everyone used to wear fur when it was cold).

So, for now, it continues to just hang in my closet. I am truly torn.

[blondeatlast]

21. That's a keepsake from a simpler time.

Treasure it as a memory of your dad's love for your mom. It's no different than me keeping and wearing my dad's cardigans and me keeping my precious son's baby clothes.

No guilt for you, you didn't buy it last week.

[veganwitch]

71. You can donate it

Peta collects fur coats and devalues them and donates them to homeless people.

Also, animal rehabiliation centers will use fur coats when raising sick or abhandoned babies animals. They respond to the fur like it was their own mother.

Both ways would honour your mother's memory in that they would continue to help.

I have a fur coat from my grandmother that my mom wont let me get rid of. But when i have the chance its getting donated. Its made of that russian sheep skin where they impregnate the mother and then kill her right before she is ready to give birth and then skin the fetus.

[buddhamama]

22. it has pissed me off since i was a little girl

yes, unfortunately, fur is still a status symbol.

what "it" symbolizes depends on who you ask.

i have been vocal in my disgust with those who would wear it.
i haven't gotten into a shouting match with anyone,yet.
once i did lose my cool and did something i am not proud of, don't recommend that approach.

polite discourse is the best way to go.

[YNGW]

23. Easy Solution

If you don't like furs, don't wear them.

If you don't like SUV's, don't drive them.

If someone were to come up to me and tell me they didn't like my fur coat or my SUV, I'd tell them to mind their own business. If they continued, I'd tell them I wasn't interest in their opinion and they need to take it somewhere else.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[buddhamama]

25. deleted

my message.

the MODs are on the ball. :toast:

[sybylla]

26. You might be seeing a lot of fur around, but keep in mind

that there are really good fakes available now really cheap. Don't assume all the fur you see is real.

I confess that fur doesn't piss me off. Though I have grown up in a period of time where fur was every woman's goal, owning a fur has never been a desire for me and I think that keeping small animals caged their entire lives in order to kill them at a prime age and take their fur is exceedingly unethical.

But I also know there are animals who get to live free which are hunted and trapped for a variety of reasons including food and population control. I have no issue with hunting and trapping under MOST of these circumstances. And I think that refusal to make the most of the carcas would also be unethical.

In fact, if mouse fur was worth a quarter, I'd be doing well this fall.

[bearfartinthewoods]

53. i pulled two dogs out of leg traps

i have a BIG problem with trapping. it's a helluva way to die.

[ma4t]

27. what to say

The most honest way to say something would be along the lines of, "Excuse me, but I feel compelled to tell you how to live your life although you are doing absolutely nothing that has a direct impact on me. Your personal choices about your lifestyle offend me for some reason and, while it may be that some of my choices also offend you, I'm unwilling to adopt an attitude of 'to each, his own'. Rather I feel free to criticize your choices from my standpoint of clear moral superiority to you."

That may not be pleasant to say, but at least it would be honest.

[Mairead]

31. "I'm unwilling to adopt an attitude of 'to each, his own'"

Surely you're not trying to claim that all choices are ethically equivalent, are you? Or that humans are not merely physically able to impose their will on other species, but ethically justified in doing so too?

[ma4t]

33. Not at all..

I'm trying to say that I reserve to myself an absolute right to be offended by any lifestyle you may make whether to wear fur or leather, drive an SUV or a golf cart, use an electric dryer or a clothes line, etc. However; as long as you are not directly harming me I don't believe I've got the right to restrict your choice and common courtesy would restrain me from berating you for your choice. Likewise, my choices may offend others but life is more pleasant when we each mind our own business.

[Mairead]

35. "life is more pleasant when we each mind our own business"

Oh, right. Especially for the child molesters, spouse abusers, plotters to drive big airplanes into tall buildings, and folk like that. Their choices are just as valid and worthy as yours, right?

[ma4t]

36. yes it is

I think you overlooked the part where I said, "as long as you are not directly harming me", which I readily confess should have been "as long as you are not directly harming another".

I would think that we could agree that "child molesters, spouse abusers, plotters to drive big airplanes into tall buildings, and folk like that" are harming others.

However, the person wearing a fur coat, or the guy driving an SUV or my neighbor who still has his Christmas lights up are not harming me or anyone else. Why should I make a big deal out of their choices just because I don't necessarily agree with them? Shouldn't I exercise a little tolerance for those different than me? How can I expect people to treat me with respect if I'm unwilling to reciprocate?

[Mairead]

29. I can't find any justification at all for fur-wearing either

I don't eat animals or birds at all, and hardly any sea-dwellers, but I do wear leather shoes, carry a leather purse (left over from my 'dress for success' days -- it's fairly tatty now), etc. The availability of cowhide, pighide, calfskin, sheepskin, and to a limited extent goatskin is a side effect of carnivorism, not a primary cause of animal killing and that makes it more okay for me, or at least less not-okay. Plus in the case of shoes, there are often no socially-acceptable alternatives (wearing ho-chis with a nice skirt and blouse doesn't seem to work, for some reason).

Fur, however, is a very conservative, patriarchical status symbol and, excepting rabbits, the animals are all (I think) carnivores themselves and their flesh is not eaten by humans because it tastes unpleasant. So they're killed purely to be made into status symbols.

As others have remarked, fur-for-warmth only makes sense in cold climates with no access to modern technology.

[rhino47]

30. I wear a mink coat.

Personally I wear it cause I freeze my butt off all winter.Its a nice ranched mink that I got out of an estate sale.Im an antiques dealer and I come across alot of furs.Personally I do not wear fox ,seal etc anything thats trapped.I do not find a ranched mink coat any more offensive then a wearing a leather coat.Its nothing to do with status.A Hermes leather coat or Gucci shoes now thats status.I live in western Pa and I am seeing a marked increase in fur.I have noticed as an antiques dealer more and more people requesting fur coats.I notice this is mainly younger people that are wearing furs again.I do not sell resell furs .When I do buy a vintage mink a good friend of mine makes teddy bears and fur lined blankets out of them.I can understand being offended when seeing a person wearing a silver fox coat etc that makes me sick too my stomach.

[RebelOne]

49. I don't understand

why seeing a person wearing a silver fox coat makes you sick when you are wearing a mink coat. These animals were all slaughtered in the same way. Either in a cruel trapper's leg-hold trap, or in the mink's case, being anally electrocuted. You sound like a hypocrite to me.

[Skip Intro]

34. Fur IS Murder - Absolutely Despicable.

No reason for it. No excuse for it.

I have nothing good to say about anyone who'd have animals put to death so that he or she can feed some selfish, ugly vanity - as if validation might be found by sliding around indside the skin of a murdered animal.

[Hep]

40. Wow

Talk about judging before all the facts are in.

Nothing good to say about ANYONE who does these things.

I'm sure the Inuit love being looked down upon by you.

[Skip Intro]

48. Oh please, let's not muddy the issue with that kind of silly bs

Its clear from my post that I was not passing judgement on native peoples' fur wearing when its either wear fur of freeze to death. And if it wasn't clear, it is now.

I was referring to the rest of civilization, those in the "modern" world, where fabrics can be made without slaughter. I was (clearly, I thought) referring to rich or rich wannabe self-absorbed materialistic a-holes who don't give a second thought to the fact that a life was taken for his/her empty vanity.

Gee, find the extreme, ignore my intent, and paint my comments as unfeeling and racist. Where have I seen that tactic before?

Should the Inuit be forbidden to wear fur if they would die otherwise, of course not. Should those who have other options yet still wear fur be shunned and looked down upon? HELL YES.

Almost lost the issue there, didn't we?

Not.

[rumguy]

37. What about fake fur?

[Silverhair]

66. Usually a lot cheaper and you can't tell difference at first glance. n/t

[PVnRT]

38. It is nothing more than a status symbol

I think it's disgusting myself.

[Hep]

39. Why care if you eat meat and wear leather shoes?

It's all animals born to be killed. Commodities.

I'm sure you already know this, but some folksstill wear fur because they need to. But they're not the folks you are talking about, and I understand that.

[bicentennial_baby]

41. They don't yell back

I have a bad habit of mouthing off to fur-clad biddies, because it's fucking disgusting. They usually scurry off with out a word. Fuck em.

[DoNotRefill]

44. Bet you don't yell at leather wearing bikers...

why is that?

[ronnykmarshall]

42. Don't like fur?

Don't buy it.

Works for me. So how would walking up to a total stranger in a fur coat and lecturing them help?

If someone came up to me and started to try to "sell" me on their views, I'd treat them like I do the Jesus freaks that come to the door.

See ya, bu-bye don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.

For the record, I don't like fur. Never owned it, never will.

[DoNotRefill]

43. I own a fur hat...

It wasn't "factory farmed". It was made by a family in Eastern Europe who raised the amimals, killed them, ate the meat (and sold it to others), and used the fur to make my hat. A friend over there picked it up for me at the eastern european equivalent of a roadside stand for the farm.

It's very warm, (warmer than any other hat I've ever owned, and it's 6 degrees above zero F outside right now, so that's important) and frankly I don't give a tinker's dam if some people don't like it. People who choose to physically attack me for wearing it deserve what they get: a) an all expense-paid trip to the local facility of incarceration and b) a nice bed in the infirmary of that institution.

I love animals, and hate unnecessary cruelty to animals. But ya gotta eat. If the animals are going to be killed for food (or if they're killed because of other reasons, like predator control), then 100% of them should be used. That includes the fur.

[RealAngoraFlora]

45. Say whatever you feel you need to say to them

I doubt you would say much to a fur wearing biker gang. Nothing wrong with fur in my mind. I suggest that if you don't like fur then don't wear it.

[blondeatlast]

46. That NASCAR avatar says sooooooooooooooooo much, thanks.

Hey, we're a big tent here . . .

[bitchkitty]

47. I think wearing fur is despicable -

I accidentally watched a video (if I'd known what was coming I NEVER would have watched it) of a mink farm, and it bothered me so badly I had very bad dreams about it.

It's a status symbol for rich twattish people, and I personally think it looks as tacky as hot pink spandex at the symphony. Fur is so last century.

[BrendaM]

54. There is no need for fur, leather or meat in these times

We can grow food and make comfort without harming any creatures and should start enforcing that fact now! After a few years of educated people in control of this sick country we can finally become civilized.

[DoNotRefill]

57. "I represent angry, gun-toting meat eating people..."

and you're dreaming.

[BrendaM]

58. In time you will come around

The days of gun-slinging cowboys ended too.

[DoNotRefill]

64. Where?

I still carry a handgun daily, and have a permit to do so. Of course, that's for two-legged varmints, not 4 legged varmints, but it'd do in a pinch.

:evilgrin:

[MediumBrownDog]

55. I've never seen the difference...

between wearing leather and fur. Those who wear leather have little room to criticize those who wear fur. It's all skin, with or without the hair scraped off, and animals don't survive without skin.

[DemBones DemBones]

59. If you'd ever worn fur, you'd know that it is wonderfully warm

and feels great, too.

Since you wear leather and eat meat, I don't think you have any grounds to criticize someone for wearing fur.

When you get right down to it, I don't think any of us have any right to criticize what others wear or eat legally. Too many of us (myself included) are prone to judge people when we know nothing about them -- a very bad habit for liberals to pick up!

I think being anti-fur has class prejudice, and resentment of those who can afford fur, at its base. Resentment rarely leads to anything good.


"If you don't like fur coats, Don't wear one."

[Pithlet]

62. If you don't like murder, don't kill someone.

Can you really not understand why someone would think that killing an animal simply to satisfy vanity is reprehensible? Fur is not as benign of an issue as you make it out to be.

Food is a necessity. Fashion is not. There is a difference.

I'm not saying it's okay to go accosting little old ladies or anything. I don't even think that confronting people is a good way to get the message out. But your claim that it is a classist prejudice is way off base. I could easily afford a fur coat, as I'm sure many people who are anti-fur. I think people can genuinely care about the plight of animals.

I apologize for the snarkiness of the title of my post, but I really hate the "if you don't like_____ than don't do it" argument. People should be able to care about things outside of themselves, and are entitled to those views.

[gill]

60. Did you see Bush is trying to all more imports of endangered animals

I saw on a website called infamousidiot.com that Bush is going to allow anilmals on the endangered list to be imported and sold in the US

[knight_of_the_star]

61. Only time I wear or use furs

Is for my Renaissance Faire garb, and I ONLY buy that stuff from Faire vendors, they usually get their pelts either from road kill that is cleaned up, something they eat, or something humane.

Aside from that, I snarl at even fake furs, not to mention real stuff if it isn't on Faire garb.

[Silverhair]

65. Excuse me, but that IS the fur wearers freedom.

We are supposed to respect freedom here. We gripe about the patriot act supressing freedom, and then turn around and want to take away peoples right to wear the clothing of their choices.

As soon as I finish this, I think I shall go have a bowl of BEEF STEW. I cooked it myself using fresh beef and veggies and it is quite good. Oh, did I offend somebody that wants to force everybody to be a vegan? Oh well, life's tough. (But I used tender beef in the stew.)

[LizW2]

68. As a spinner and knitter

I like wool myself. Is it considered cruel? I know people who have their own sheep and the things are big pets and don't seem to mind shearing too much. I would love to live where I could raise some.

I wear leather because it's just everywhere and I don't see stopping until Americans stop killing and eating beef. I am bothered by fur animals being bred, raised and killed solely for their fur.

And besides, there's fake fur. I have a black wool coat with fake fur inside the hood and it's cozy.

[noonwitch]

69. If I ever got rich, I'd buy one

A black sable coat.