Being verbally beaten by BUSH GROUPIES AT WORK - PLEASE HELP

[head_banger]

Please help me on a few things here if you have a few minutes. Here is the background. First of all I don't have a very strong "gift of gab" so when confronted in a debate, I tend to trip up on my own words. I work the graveyard shift at a metal coatings plant in Rochester, NY. For the past 3 months I have been the object of some mild criticism from a bunch of Bush Groupies. The criticism has really intensified since the capture of Saddam. It's not personal yet but I think it's going to escalate to that here in the next few weeks. I can feel it brewing since the hiring of two new immigrants from Mexico. They fit right in with the Bush groupies and do nothing but praise Bush and his immigration legislation. They speak only a few words of English but there are three others who work with me who speak fluent Spanish and interpret everything. All this takes place in the break room where about on average 24 of us gather for our two 15 minute breaks (which sometimes lasts 45 minutes because our supervisor tells us it's OK. Besides, no one can get back to work until he fires-up the compressors which are shut off before every break).

Anyway, here is what I am asking for help with. I NEED HELP FINDING REBUTTALS ON THESE ISSUES

Prior to the Dow going above 10,000 and prior to the capture of Saddam I expressed concern over the tax cuts and the increased spending, the cost of this war not to mention the loss of human life. I also expressed total dissatisfaction over our progress in Iraq. I saw a report on CNN that clearly conveyed the idea that Iraqi people want us out of Iraq. I repeated this in the break room as a rebuttal to the bush groupies - I mentioned that I thought we should pull out of Iraq and put an end to all the killing...That was the turning point. People I have worked along side of for the past 4 years, had over to my home for various occasions and celebrations were suddenly like enemies. They verbally assaulted me with questions like "so you want us to leave the job undone so Saddam can come back to power?" and "you want Saddam to retaliate against all the Iraqis that hit his portraits with their shoes?" and "you want us to leave the Iraqi people open for more human rights violations? Those human rights violations gave us enough right to take Saddam out of power!" They ask me "where is your outcry over human rights violations, prisons for children, torture chambers and the mass graves? You don't complain about that stuff; you only bitch about bush and don't acknowledge anything good he's done because you hate him and are jealous he is getting all the fortune and glory." A few of my closest friends asked me these things and I had no answers because I was caught off guard by their intensity and borderline hostility towards me.

I could keep going because the break room political discussions have been very intense...most in favor of everything Bush has Done. I'll make a very long story a little shorter by cutting to the chase.

Need rebuttals for:

I say "Bush has hurt the economy"

They say "Bush inherited a recession and 9/11 didn't help it one bit. Bush not only took away the Clinton recession that was caused by many years of overspending like in California, he took the Clinton recession away despite the major 9/11 roadblock.

NEED REBUTTAL

I say "Bush has cost us Millions of Jobs!"

They say "unemployment was on the rise before Bush was sworn in. Look it up on the statistical websites (they have yet to provide me with the link). Besides, since Bush took Office there are hundreds of thousands new immigrants who have come to this country without jobs and they should not be counted as a "lost Job". 9/11 hurt this country and that event alone hurt many industries like a great big domino effect in all points of the travel business. Just look at the number of airlines that went belly up and the countless number of people who lost their jobs all thanks to 9/11. Unemployment numbers are down now thanks to Bush."

I say " the Tax cuts hurt this country and the economy and our children will be paying for all of the excessive spending Bush has done on these unjust wars"

They say "There has been a surge in the economy, industries are hiring and producing goods, more people are being hired thus, these things provide more tax revenue that will cover the cost of all these programs."

I say "Halliburton was overcharging...."

They said last night "Halliburton was cleared of any wrongdoing by the wall street journal investigation"

I say "we need healthcare for all"

They say "Clinton's administration had been messing with that idea for 8 years. Medicare was also fumbled around by the Clintons for 8 years. Bush come along and passes that right away when Clinton couldn't do it for 8 years. It's not a great plan but he did it and the "democraps" couldn't. They are jealous of Bush"

I Say where is "Saddam and Usama"?

They say "One Down"

I was in my glory over the O'Neal interview but O'Neal has back pedaled out of that.

THE CLINCHER IS THE WMD'S

I say, "where are the weapons of mass destruction as bush claimed as a reason to go to war with Iraq?"

I was laughed at and they said "Clinton stood on the podium and said a lot of times "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction" and Clinton also supported a regime change in Iraq. If there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq then "SHAME ON BUSH...." they said. "'Shame on bush and his administration for believing the intelligence reports that were provided by the Clinton's administration.....Bush should have known Clinton was a liar" and he went on about Monica BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I say "the election was stolen"

They say "Every recount has shown that Bush won Florida Fair and Square, Get over it"

The new guys from Mexico think that because I dislike Bush's policies then I must resent them - since some of their relatives are here illegally Bush has given them an opportunity to become legal. To them, Bush is Great. That is one thing Bush has done I agree with but these guys refuse to believe it.

I need help. I have put my foot in my mouth and have been ganged up against by the groupies. I have a hard time conveying ideas because I get all tongue-tied and do not have the gift of gab. PLEASE HELP so I can at least rebut a few things and knock the pedestal out from underneath their god BUSH. I know we are right but they are too blind to see it

Doug

[bryant69]

1. You say

"Where is Saddam and Osoma?" If you are that out of it that you've said this since Saddam was caught, well, I'm not sure this is going to help you much.

They can say that the economy is rebounding all they like. The President doesn't control the economy completely (nobody does), and there will be some up months. But the enormous deficit will constrict credit available for small business start ups, buying houses, buying cars, all of which pump money into the economy and create jobs. In other words, yeah there was some good economic news last month, but the roots aren't strong. It won't be able to sustain itself.

One thing I've noted all the way down. All of your statements are simplistic and poorly thought out. All of their responses are detailed and well explained (although incorrect). Is it possible you've spent so much time listening to conservative arguments you are starting to buy into them?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Moderator]

2. Locking

Rules to start discussion threads in the General Discussion forum.

1. If you start a thread in the General Discussion forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. Some examples of things which should generally be avoided are: unnecessarily hot rhetoric, nicknames for prominent Democrats or their supporters, broad-brush statements about groups of people, single-sentence "drive-by" thread topics, etc.

2. The subject line of a discussion thread must accurately reflect the actual content of the message.

3. The subject line of a discussion thread may not include profanity or swear words, even if words or letters are replaced by asterisks, dashes, or abbreviations.

4. The subject line and the entire text of the message which starts the thread may not include excessive capitalization, or excessive punctuation.

5. If you post an article or other published content which is from a conservative source or which expresses a traditionally conservative viewpoint, you must state your opinion about the piece and/or the issues it raises.

6. You may not start a new discussion thread in order to continue a current or recent flame war from another thread. The moderators have the authority to lock threads in order to contain flaming on a particular topic to only one thread at a time.

7. Discussion topics that mention any or all of the Democratic presidential primary candidates are not permitted in the General Discussion forum, and instead must be posted in the General Discussion: 2004 Primary forum.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation,
DU moderator