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the new Democratic president should do something about Lieberman

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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:17 PM
Original message
the new Democratic president should do something about Lieberman
i.e. get him out of the Senate so we can get a real progressive and non morality-nanny in his seat. We'll probably have to wait until 2006 to do so due to the lying scandalous Repuke sitting in the Connecticut governor's mansion, but when that comes around, what do people here thinking of appointing him to some position like ambassador to Mongolia?
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Sir_Shrek Donating Member (340 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ummm...
So if the people of Connecticut want Lieberman to represent them in the Senate, you still advocate the President removing (in a ceremonial way) him simply for the sake of removing him (not because he'd make a good ambassador or anything like that)? Weird.
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absyntheNsugar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. I disagree...
as Conservative as Lieberman is, he has still proved an ally in certain votes.

And, as conservative as he is, he still is nowhere near the Neo-Con mark.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Joe is way to the left of Dean on key Dem issues like civil liberties.
Edited on Wed Jan-14-04 04:49 PM by blm
Dean sounds like Sean Hannity on civil liberty and judiciary issues. Appalling.

Joe L. has been great on thiose issues throughout his career.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. For example, Dean on civil liberties:

http://www.talkleft.com/archives/003739.html
……He once addressed a meeting of defense attorneys by stating that "my job is to make your job as difficult as possible." He is a man of his word, at least on this campaign promise. He did not want to fund public defense.
……Dean has made no secret of his belief that the justice system gives all the breaks to defendants. Consequently, during the 1990s, state’s attorneys, police, and corrections all received budget increases vastly exceeding increases enjoyed by the defender general’s office. That meant the state’s attorneys were able to round up ever increasing numbers of criminal defendants, but the public defenders were not given comparable resources to respond.
http://rogueimc.org/2003/11/1757.shtml
Dean, in 1999, wanted to refuse a $150,000 federal grant to the public defender's office for aiding mentally disabled defendants. "That was unusual, to say the least," says Appel. The state legislature overrode Dean's opposition. Dean spokesman Carson responded that Dean didn't want to create a program that the state couldn't afford to fund if federal money disappeared in the future. But he did not disavow Dean's anti-defendant bent. "This is a governor who was tough on crime and is a big believer in victims' rights," Carson says.
(Note:The state legislature overrode Dean's opposition and forced him to take it.)
Source: http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp?cp1=1
Dean: “I got life without parole through our legislature. The problems with life without parole is that it’s not life without parole. There are always people who get out.”
http://richmond.indymedia.org/newswire/display/4371/index.php
.. “I’m looking to make it easier to convict guilty people and not have as many technicalities interfere with justice, and I’ll appoint someone to fit that bill”.
Asked if that reflected a “get-tough-on-crime” approach, Dean responded: “I’m looking for someone who is for justice. My beef about the judicial system is that it does not emphasize truth and justice over lawyering. It emphasizes legal technicalities and rights of the defendants and all that.” Such comments may play well with the general public, but they have sent a chill through the collective spine of lawyers – particularly defense lawyers – around the state.
http://rogueimc.org/2003/11/1757.shtml
He attempted an explanation of his support for capital punishment, even while agreeing that in some cases "the wrong guy" might be executed…. ...he thought the death penalty was preferable in some instances to a sentence of life without parole, Dean noted that in some instances criminals who are locked up for life might be freed on a legal "technicality" only to commit more horrible crimes. "That is every bit as heinous as putting to death someone who didn't commit the crime," he said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A1907-2003Jul2?language=printer
William Cohen: …..In all my years writing about the death penalty, I have never heard any politician admit that he would countenance the death of an innocent person in order to ensure that the guilty die. Dean is maybe the first to acknowledge the unacknowledgeable. For that, I suppose, he ought to be congratulated. But by equating the murder of one individual by another with the murder of an innocent person by the government -- the unpreventable with the preventable -- he has casually trashed several hundred years of legal safeguards.
http://www.vpr.net/vt_news/stories/sharedlegacy/shared3.shtml
Vermont Public Radio, Bob Kinzel: "It's likely that Howard Dean's tenure in office will also have a long term effect on the state's criminal justice system. In his first years as Governor, Dean was often critical of judges who Dean thought did not hand down tough enough sentences. Over the last 10 years, Dean has appointed more judges than any previous governor and Dean describes his appointees as "law and order" judges. Dean's judicial philosophy appears to be having a significant impact - during his tenure as governor the average sentence handed down in Vermont has doubled - a situation that has led to an overcrowding of the state's prison system."
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/Bister-Estrin-Jacobs_Dean.htm
His governorship was a campaign against reasonable approaches to substance abuse. ….. the only other option in his bag of tricks is tougher penalties. He has endorsed fully the National Governors Association's policy, which calls for increased involvement of law enforcement and disavows any form of legalization not only as a policy but also as a philosophy. In short, Dean not only believes in the war on drug users, but also would like to see it intensified.
…..While Dean vocalized his opposition to methadone treatment clinics and decried any efforts to reduce the penalties on marijuana use -- even labeling the latter as a gateway drug (a statistically questionable claim at best) -- the population of Vermont's prisons increased to potentially dangerous levels. There is a correlation between these two phenomena. The more police go after individuals who use drugs, and the more judges are instructed to put them in jail, the more prisoners there are. ……. according to the DEA, the number of drug arrests in Vermont increased under Dean's watch, peaking in the year 2001, with the imprisonment of women increasing by over 140%.
http://rogueimc.org/2003/11/1757.shtml
Robert Appel, former head of the state's public defender system, said he had constant clashes with Dean over funding for the service. According to Appel, Dean said on at least one public occasion that the state should spend less money providing the accused with legal representation, saying that "95% of criminal defendants are guilty anyway." He later claimed that he was kidding.
http://www.loper.org/~george/archives/2003/Aug/946.html
(He appointed) state judges who were willing to undermine the Bill of Rights. In a 1997 interview with the Vermont News Bureau, Howard Dean admitted his desire to expedite the judicial process by using such justices to 'quickly convict guilty criminals.' He wanted individuals that would deem 'common sense more important than legal technicalities.' Constitutional protections (legal technicalities) apparently undermine Dean's yearning for speedy trials. 
 
And Dean siding with Bush over Kerry on July 2002 MTP:

 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Oh, really, and which votes
would those be? IWAR? The Patriot Act? Faith-based Funding? Need I go on?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. if the people of his state have elected a pubbie gov
what makes you think joe would be replaced with a dem? you could get a pubbie senator, ya know.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. If I had my "druthers"
I'd take Lieberman over Zig Zag Zell.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. What have the innocent and good people of Mongolia ever done to you?

Don't they have enough problems?

I thought this was a pro-Yak board.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nah, I'd say send him to somewhere
in Africa, since he's so gung-ho on war, war, war, and he'll be able to lecture dying, starving Africans on the importance of being moral so as to avoid AIDS.
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eissa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I'd much prefer
Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. That one would be fun!
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. LOL!
I think he'd fit in perfectly!
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Lieberman is a good senator
He's a conservative Democrat. We used to have a lot of those. Like John Kennedy.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Giving him a promotion somewhere remote would be good.
However, I would like to see the next Democratic President bring charges against the Bush cabal for treason. I don't think they should be allowed to walk away from Washington with their pockets full and no blame to pay for.
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liberalcapitalist Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Joe is okay with me
Big tent.

Get him out of the senate? Make him attorney general. It would be a gesture to the conservatives, plus think how much of an improvement he would be over Ashcroft.
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. not much
since he's supported all of Ashcroft's policies, including TIPS, which was killed by Dick Armey and attacked by Bob Barr, putting Lieberman to the right of those two on that issue. Plus he'd be just as much of a morality nanny.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. That's for sure!
I wouldn't ever want him to have that kind of power, he'd go haywire on the morality nanniness, we wouldn't be able to read anything except Mother Goose and listen to anything except Mary Poppins, or some such shit like that.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-04 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Locking - Wrong Forum
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