There is no shame in driving a SUV/truck

[IronLionZion]

provided you actually use it for hauling cargo, towing cargo, or go off-road. I don't buy the safety crap because they roll over and are sometimes a danger to others. I don't drive an SUV or a truck but know many environmentalists who do because they need to. I long for the day when gasoline is replaced by a much better, cheaper, less-bloody fuel.

If you drive an SUV because it makes you feel powerful, and in control then maybe a better forum for you would be www.freerepublic.com.

your thoughts please:

[OhioStateProgressive]

1. there is nothing wrong with them IF....

they get the same gas mileage as a small compact car

[Peregrine]

29. Thats fine

Posted by OhioStateProgressive
there is nothing wrong with them IF...."
they get the same gas mileage as a small compact car


That's fine as long as you apply this standard to all vehicles: sports car, wagons, large sedans ...

[OhioStateProgressive]

35. i think that is fair

there has to be uniformity, i agree

and cars that can't meet those requirements shouldn't be sold

[wuushew]

2. Was there no room left in the previous thread?

n/t

[IronLionZion]

3. haha this has a different tone

but I was inspired from the other thread

[forgethell]

4. There is nothing wrong with them

if you need them. You decide whether you do or not.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

5. here come the SUV-grabbers Billy Joe, go get Pa!

I need a truck that can fit all my Dale Ernhardt stickers on it, and that one sticker with the Little Calvin pissing on a Chevy emblem. So i need an SUV, and you can have mine when you pry it from my cold, dirty driveway.

[IronLionZion]

6. haha

good one

[NavajoRug]

7. I don't do many of those things, but I drive an SUV . . .

And it has nothing to do with "safety," or "feeling macho" or anything like that.

In many respects, an SUV is actually an extremely practical vehicle. If you drive an SUV and DO NOT use it for towing, hauling heavy loads, off-roading, etc., you will basically be driving a vehicle that is built to do much more than you are using it for -- which means you will get a longer life out of it.

I've got a 1992 SUV with nearly 250,000 miles on it -- and the powertrain runs like it's almost new. I can't complain about that, now can I? :-)

[leesa]

10. Wow. Wasting fuel for 250,000 miles, eh? Awesome!

And better yet if you never use it except to drive yourself around.

[IronLionZion]

11. what do you do with it?

and what kind is it? I don't follow your reasoning. It seems like a waste of money to have an SUV without using it for anything.

[IronLionZion]

8. Saving forests is one thing, but if

you want to get around in the forests a logical choice is an American-made Jeep or other small SUV. Hummer H2's and Escalades do not work because they are just too bloody big to fit between the trees.

Mountain biking is fun but will only get you so far and you can't haul much gear or avoid many bears.

[pstokely]

17. have you ever seen a Luxury SUV with dirt on it?

?

[IronLionZion]

23. yes quite often

My friend takes his Jeep grand cherokee offroad at least once a week. I've also seen Land Rovers and Touregs and Land Cruisers go offroad because they are very capable. They are made for off-road and are not too big. My problem is with the H2, Escalade, etc. which have no useful purpose except to feel rich and powerful.

[Buns_of_Fire]

24. I smell a buck to be made here...

Attention Luxury SUV Owners!

Do you own
An Escalade?
A Navigator?
A Hummer H2?
A Mercedes-Benz ML350?
A BMW X5?

Do your friends scoff at you because you dropped multi-bucks on an off-road vehicle that you're afraid to take off-road?
Do environmentalists disdain you because you have a vehicle that eats gas but has no other discernable purpose?
Do the young tenderlings give you the cold shoulder because they know you're not a real off-roader?

YOUR PROBLEM IS SOLVED!!!

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Kit contains:

• One pound of genuine dirt, Micro-Refined(tm) to eliminate all finish-scratching impurities, in a genuine Parkay HomeStyle Margerine tub (so your secret will be safe!);
  
• One yak-hair brush, for those with artistic inclinations; and
  
• Detailed instructions for mixing and applying the dirt to achieve whichever effect you're looking to create.

Complete Kit only $39.95 plus $6.95 P&H

There you go. Take it and run with it. A small commission would be appreciated, naturally. :-

[IronLionZion]

9. I swear by cars by the way

I prefer the handling of cars up until winter and the snowplows leave bumps that I can barely get over in my American-made Toyota Camry. SUV drivers laugh when i get stuck in the snow and I laugh when they slow down for turns and have a hefty gas bill. I don't laugh when they roll though.

[goddess40]

26. Camry's and snow

This is Goddess40's mom. When I was a Public Health Nurse in Wisconsin I drove all the unplowed back country roads and farm driveways in my Toyota Camry and never got stuck once. Front wheel drive works very well in the snow. I didn't need a SUV.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

34. I have a '98 Camry-it's GREAT in snow

plus, we tend to get a lot of ice here in Boston, which renders SUVs as useless as cars. I have seen more than my share of SUV spinouts during this kind of weather.

[IronLionZion]

37. I have a 96 camry 4 cylinder and it rocks!

but maybe you don't see as much snow as we get here in Western NY or Western PA where I am from. It's good when the roads are plowed and you have Blizzak tires but I have gotten stuck in deep snow.

I love the handling and the fact that I don't skid on ice though.

[corporatewhore]

12. Well when our car was stolen we were given a beatup 89 suburban

which is about to die.We dont use it for hauling on a reg basis (but if any of our friends need it we offer outta guilt for driving monstrosity)When it does die my mom has agreed to use for charty by charging people to take a whack at it w/sledge hammer and give the proceeds to Earth First! and recyle any thing we can I am sure there would be some people who would like to this in austin!! (i put a bumber sticker that says chaning the climate ask me how on it)

[jpgray]

13. Poor MPG SUVs are just very selfish

Drive one all you want, but all you do is accelerate the loss of the world's oil, and drive the need to spend blood and treasure for a bigger share of the dwindling supply.

[corporatewhore]

16. I agree but not all some of us are poor folk who inheireted a clunker

[spanone]

14. Go Hybrid, I did.

[caledesi]

15. Yeah, wait til gas is $3.00/gallon and the SUVs can't pass a gas

station. They deserve it.

[Silverhair]

20. You assume that everybody has your wealth.

That's a modern version of, "Let them eat cake."

[IronLionZion]

25. how's the performance and fuel economy?

because I know a relative who despises his Prius. He never sees the numbers that Toyota advertised. In many cases a four cylinder gas engine and a manual transmission is better.

[Fla_Democrat]

18. My thoughts?

My thoughts are that when I bought my truck/SUV, I didn't even take into account trying to justify it to someone else. I factored in my situation, and compared fuel usage to serviceability, and picked the best choice for me.

My thoughts are, I don't give a damn if I pass two people standing on a sidewalk, and one thinks my truck is too small and the other thinks it's too big.

My thoughts are on my own business, not on someone else's. I don't worry about what they drive, what's in their wallet, or what they do in their bedroom.

And before anyone has a fit, I settled on a Toyota Tacoma, 4 cylinder, but I would be of the same opinion if I drove a H2 hummer, or a VW Bug. :shrug:

[IndianaGreen]

19. The shame is in the aggressive way many SUV owners drive

Many of them drive like total assholes, completely ignoring traffic laws and driving as if they were driving on their own private road, in daylight, with weather that is warm and dry.

Here in Indiana they are also tax cheats, paying lower "truck" taxes on their SUVs.

[Robb]

21. I suspect the assholes are just easier to spot

They've always been assholes, always been ignoring traffic laws, always changing lanes and clogging city streets.

The difference is they're out of the Alfas and into big things you can see. :shrug:

It's not the machine, it's the philosophy of the driver: basic selfishness. I know selfless people who drive SUVs, and I know selfish ones that drive hybrids. I get very concerned every time I hear progressives talking in broad terms (on any issue) about "those people".

[noonwitch]

22. I also think they are justifiable for large families.

If you have a few teenagers, especially boys, everyone fits better in it. I can also see people who use them when they travel distances. I don't have one-I could never afford the gas, the insurance, and it wouldn't fit the driveway, so I would have to park it outside on the street. I have an Escort, which gets 35-40 mpg and is a pretty reliable beater car.

[bloom]

27. I mostly have a problem with the Cheneyesque attitude

that it makes no difference if people waste oil and resources and that people should not be expected to conserve.

I assume that reasonable people want to find whatever vehicle suits their purposes and gets the best mileage.

[ArkDem]

28. I need my SUV because it makes me

better in bed with my wife. If I drove something else I would lose all of my self esteem.

[Must_B_Free]

30. What if you drive it because you feel safer in it?

does that make you a bad person?

[treepig]

31. no, that makes you a stupid person

in fact there's a whole article in the january 12 new yorker (called "big and bad" on page 28) about how incredibly obtuse americans are to buy suv's to feel safe when in reality they are much less safe.

on a slightly different topic, auto industry market research shows that people who buy suv's are insecure, vain, selfcentered abd self-absorbed, who are frequently nervous about their marriages, and who lack confidence in their driving skills.

[Must_B_Free]

40. OK - good thing I have the media to tell me what to think...

otherwise I might use my own brain and figure out that if a car crashes into me, I won't get hurt, because I am higher and have more vehicle to absorb the collision.

[BigBigBear]

32. I drive a Dakota pickup

My wife and I go whitewater rafting a lot, frequently using terrible off-pavement roads as access, carrying 100's of pounds of equipment.

I feel no shame and offer no apology. This is my life, this is the vehicle I use to live it.

[Overkil]

33. Some big vehicles get good mileage, too

We have two vehicles, a 1999 Plymouth Breeze (cheap version of the dodge stratus) with a 2.0 liter, 4 cyl engine & auto tranny. The other is a 1999 ford truck with a 7.3 liter V8 diesel engine & auto tranny. Breeze gets about 20 mpg in town and the truck gets about 19 mpg in town. Truck is propane injected which lowers diesel emissions by making the fuel mixture cleaner burning (and improves milage). The little breeze is under powered and hindered by the auto tranny so it is constantly revving higher just to keep up. Diesels also work in smaller cars as well. My buddy has a VW Jetta with the diesel engine and gets about 45 mpg. Clean burning diesel is an alternative that is available now, unlike some other proposals.

[IronLionZion]

38. a manual transmission or CVT does help fuel economy

high gears are your friend.

Diesel is alright if you don't mind the fumes. I wouldn't get one if I drove around a city because they have godawful fumes.

Personally, I'd like to see more CNG or LNG cars, and fuel cells. They are using these technlogies in buses in NY and Toronto.

[drdigi420]

36. if a person is really fat

it helps them because its easier to get in and out of

other than that, a car is a better choice for 99% of the ppl that own SUVs

[MissB]

39. We have a full-sized truck

It's a GMC extended cab, extended bed. IIRC, it gets about 14 miles/gallon in the city.

We recently bought it, used. It replaced a VW Van whose engine was going, going, gone. Why did we buy it? Because we live on a half acre amongst the trees that haven't been trimmed for the last decade. It'll take us a few years to get this place ship-shape. And yes, the truck will be used for hauling yard debris, almost exclusively.

I drive my car around town, taking the kids to school and getting grocerys. It's a Volvo station wagon-your typical soccer mom car.

Dh rides his bike to work each and every day. Look at my av- we live in Oregon. It rains here. He bikes 9 miles each way, sometimes with his laptop strapped on the racks. Rain or shine. We take our tandem bikes out on the weekend- they're set up so our two young boys can bike on the back. We want them to realize that bicycling is an alternative mode of transportation.

So while I do own a gas-guzzling truck, it doesn't leave the driveway on a daily basis, just as the van before would sit for weeks on end, unused.

[Moderator]

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