Why does the Southern Baptist Convetion still exist?

[Bush loves Jiang]

1. It was solely created to protest the fact that most Baptists in America opposed the allowing of slave owners to be preachers.

2. The SBC claims to be against racism and against slavery.

3. If the SBC were good on those claims, its members would have the common sense to realise that, sans racism, their church has no reason to exist, and as such, their congreations can either join another denomination or operate non-denominationally.

[Khephra]

1. They've moved on to other groups to hate

They were investigating Masons not that long ago.

[forgethell]

12. A lot of Southern Baptists

happen to be Masons

[Khephra]

19. Right, and that's one reason that the Convention started to investigate

Masonry. You can't control people's minds who are used to seeing other people of other relgions as being "Brothers". Google the SBC and Masonry. You'll get tons of anti-Mason writing.

[forgethell]

28. All very well

The thing about Baptists is that they are a very independent lot. Each man is his own priest and his own interpreter of the Bible. that's one reason there are so very many Baptist Denominations. Within each denomination, each church is totally independent. The state conventions are independent of the Southern Baptist Convention. A church can belong to more than one Baptist convention if it wants to. For instance, those churches that belong to the SBC and also the Southern Baptist Alliance ( I think that is the name) that organized in opposition to the SBC when the conservatives took over. Churches split over the pastor's hair style or deep differences in theology. Each church owns it's own property and hires its own clergy.

If a church wanted to say ordain a gay woman, it could. The SBC would do nothing except expel it from the Convention. "withdrawing fellowship".

And I get back to my original point, lot's of Baptists are Masons. My own father for one.

[necso]

2. To steal money and promote hate, ignorance, bigotry.

.... and bad spelling! For a moment there they had me.

[saltpoint]

3. They still exist to --

-- pursue their true goals:

1. To maintain ignorance, fear and bigotry among their membership and followers; and

2. To do so with tax-exempt status.

[forgethell]

4. Institutions tend to grow

like any other organism, and selfdom commit suicide. Besides they have some serious differences with other Baptist denominations. Heck southern Baptists feud among themselves and will split if some families don't like the new pastor.

The SBC exists because it meets the spiritual needs of its members. Nobody holds a gun to anybody's head to be a Baptist.

Finally, what makes perfect sense to you or me, may make no sense at all to the Baptists. And why should they care what we think about their existence?

[countmyvote4real]

5. Wow. I didn’t know that, but not surprising…

I was raised as an SB, but that bit of history was not included in our Vacation Bible School materials. However, we were provided with a strong sense of the importance of the separation church and state with heroic tales of Roger Williams. (Obviously JC was still the star. RW was just our version of a heroic Christian martyr since we don’t have saints) All these years later I still can’t help believing that it is important to keep church out of state and vice versa.

As an adult and hopefully wiser man, I’ve since found it very ironic and hypocritical that the SBC and the religious right at large has lost touch with their humble beginnings. (What’s that saying about power corrupts?)

That’s not to say that any other sect or organized religion is immune from hypocrisy, but this is a personal contradiction. Much to the chagrin of my immediate family I’ve walked out on sermons at their church that have crossed the line of these boundaries.

BLJ, If this is true (and I’m not doubting it) can you please share any links to your evidence?

This seems to be the missing link in the “separation” argument, but it doesn’t quite explain why it was still being taught to us in the 1960’s.

[Silverhair]

10. The SBC was founded in 1845 over a slavery arguement.

At the time the Baptist churches in the USA were part of one denomination. The missions board refused to accept as a missionary a slave owner, and said they would not send anyone to an overseas mission that owned slaves. So the Southern churches split off and formed the SBC.

Naturally, most people are creatures of their times. Yes, they were wrong. Yes, there was enough light that they should have been able to see. After all, the north saw the evil of slavery. But for the average person, raised amid slavery, it would have seemed natural.

The SBC has since apologized for their stance. To suggest they should disband, is to ignore all the good they have done.

The reason it still exists is because it's members want it to. For you to attack it and say they should go away suggests that you don't want any of their votes. Some of them are Democrats. Or is that a surprise to you?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. The SBC is an anti-Christ organization of heretics preaching heresey

that's what I would say if I was a judgmental, schismatic type Christian. Since I'm not, I won't.

[ermoore]

This is foolishness.

What experience do you actually have with the SBC? Whatever its roots, it is the largest single Protestant denomination in the US (and so I would imagine the world). It exists now for the same reason that any Protestant denomination organization/headquarters/whatever-you-call-them exists. Besides acting as a central headquarters it publishes lots of materials for Southern Baptist churches such as, bulletins, Sunday School and VBS materials. It also runs a huge foreign and domestic missions program.

The SBC wasn't so bad until it was taken over by the fundies a good ways back. It's lost a fair number of churches since then and other churches (moderate, not fundie churches) have formed the Southern Baptist Cooperative Assoc., but still also remain part of the SBC (I suppose plotting how to wrest control back away from the fundies).

[ermoore]

7. This is foolishness.

What experience do you actually have with the SBC? Whatever its roots, it is the largest single Protestant denomination in the US (and so I would imagine the world). It exists now for the same reason that any Protestant denomination organization/headquarters/whatever-you-call-them exists. Besides acting as a central headquarters it publishes lots of materials for Southern Baptist churches such as, bulletins, Sunday School and VBS materials. It also runs a huge foreign and domestic missions program.

The SBC wasn't so bad until it was taken over by the fundies a good ways back. It's lost a fair number of churches since then and other churches (moderate, not fundie churches) have formed the Southern Baptist Cooperative Assoc., but still also remain part of the SBC (I suppose plotting how to wrest control back away from the fundies).

[camero]

8. Why does Scientology still exist?

Or Evangelicals? A cult is a cult.

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. A cult?

I thought Maryland was the land of religious freedom. You betray your roots.

[coda]

11. Yeah I noticed too, how he was trying deny their 1st Amendment rights.

:eyes:

[camero]

13. Hate to say it

Maryland was not exactly Southern. They didn't secede. It was the brother against brother state.

And I asked the question in the rhetorical sense. They have the right to exist. Now why they have a following is beyond me.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. Yes, Maryland was occupied during the Civil War

But it is still a state that relishes its history as one of religious freedom, not one where religious groups you don't like are called "cults."

[camero]

15. What is a cult but a group?

Where you have to sever all ties with civilization to be a part of their group. I didn't say they didn't have the right to exist.
Where did I say that?

Christianity does not deny rights to others. It merely says that god is the ultimate judge.

Maryland was 1 vote away from leaving the Union. And get over it. That was 150 years ago.

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. Not exactly

A couple points:

I didn't bring up the secession issue. Maryland was not ALLOWED to secede by the greatest president we ever had -- Abe Lincoln.

Cult is a pejorative term applied often by many here who define virtually all religious observance as cult-like.

[camero]

21. Sorry disagree about cults

You have to leave your family and everything with a cult. Not all religions are cults. Yes, many here apply it in that sense. But it's not a sweeping generalization.

I just think you don't need a "church" to be Christian. Anyone can.

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. Anyone can be religious

I agree on that point. Actually, the religious definition about cults tends to revolve around a charismatic founder. If the founder (Rev. Moon for example) is still alive, then that charisma can be assumed to still hold sway. Scientologists however are no longer a cult as they continue to worship after L. Ron. Hubbard's demise.

[camero]

24. That's part of it.

Another is that you seperate yourself from society at large. Which is what Scientologists do. Believe me, you should see them. I live maybe 5 miles from their headquarters and they are like drones. No emotion at all.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. The same might be said of us

We have separated ourselves here.

Maybe they think WE are like drones.

I chose not to tell others how they may worship or whether or not their way is the right way.

[greekspeak]

27. Not quite that cut and dry

Cult HAS a perjorative sense in everyday language. It also has a descriptive use in professional religious studies. A cult in this sense is a religious group that is unique within a culture. One might argue that buddhism in a predominantly religious nation is a cult. A cult then is different from a sect, which is a break-off of a larger religious group.

The word is like "fundamentalist." The term has been hijacked. The term in the most purely religious sense indicates the desire to go back to the basics of a religion. In other words, maintain only the fundamentals. Because so many groups who want to do this are millitant and colorful but negative, the term gets a bad rap.

[mitchum]

16. The SBC is one of the many things that make me question the Reformation

but why the hell should I really care (being a heathen and all)

[Devlzown]

17. Why does the Lutheran Church still exist?

The Catholic Church doesn't sell indulgences anymore, so why don't the Lutherans go ahead and reunite?

[Wapsie B]

18. We're too busy hating each other.

Between the Wisconsin and Missouri Synod, and the godless liberal ELCA, there's enough warfare going on just inside the Lutheran tent. Reuniting with the fish-eating Catholics will have to wait for at least another millenia.

[Devlzown]

22. Bwahaha!

As far as religion is concerned, splitting up seems to be a lot more common than unification -- at least in America. I suspect it's the same with the Baptists. Slavery was the big argument with the northern Baptists in the 1840's, but now it would probably be women pastors or something like that. As much as religion affects politics in America, politics also affects religion.

[TennesseeWalker]

26. The perfect opportunity for me to leave the 700 Club.

I've been around Southern Baptists all my life. Most of my family members go to Southern Baptist Churches. Some really good people, but too conservative for their own good, and at times harshly judgemental.

I'm reminded of an old joke....a man dies, and goes to heaven. St. Peter meets him at the Pearly Gates and offers him a tour. All over heaven, he sees Hindus, Muslims, Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Methodists, etc., all gathered together, laughing, talking conversing...then St. Peter shows him a door, and lets him look in the little window of the door. Inside, several folks are gathered around talking...the recently departed fellow asks St. Peter who those folks are....St. Peter says.."Shhhhhhh....those are the Baptists..they think they're the only ones here!"

They still think they're the only ones going...:)