I guess Michael Moore is gonna wait until AFTER the stolen

[Sperk]

election to do his documentary on touch screen voting.
If Michael Moore, who is very educated on politics, believes we can actually vote out bush, then I see why BBV has not gotten the traction it needs.

People are in DENIAL. Even us here at DU. I do not believe we can vote these people out. Now, does that mean you give up and don't fight? NO it means you START fighting. Meaning, Michael Moore, Jean G., Al Frankin, OUR REPS (for Christ sakes), start making some REAL noise about these machines. Get the facts out.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but my heart just sank when I heard Micheal Moore say bye, bye to Bush during the MoveOn awards. All I could think is "even HE doesn't comprehend the extent of the corruption."

:-(

[ShaneGR]

1. Michael Moore is NOT working on a BBV ducumentary

He is working on Fahrenheit 9/11... a movie about the Bush connections to the Saudis and the Bin Laden family.

[cthrumatrix]

11. AND we need our Dem reps to stand up -- if the repugs didn't it would

embarass them to no end....why they don't demand it -- only leaves more questions

[kalian]

2. I agree...

we cannot and will not be permitted to vote these people out.
And lest we forget that the same surpreme court is still in power and
can, once again, declare shrub the "victor".
If Americans do not stand up to this eventual blatant act...then
democracy is truly dead.

Ten months until the selections...

[salinen]

3. My thoughts are your thoughts

After all, starting an illegal war for oil and strategic presence is so criminal that we should expect a corrupt election process.

[mikehiggins]

4. The process isn't that corrupt...yet

The fear that a massive conspiracy across the nation exists designed to deliver votes to George Bush is not supportable by any evidence. There have been voter frauds in the past (Florida in 2000, Chicago in...well, you name it) but the kind of conspiracy necessary to throw this election to Bush just isn't in the cards.

There are weak spots to be watched (Jeb Bush is STILL Governor of Florida) but if the Democratic Party puts up an effective campaign, and we get out our vote on election day, there is no way that we will lose this election on the basis of fraud or conspiracy.

It just can't happen in this country, in this election.

Give Bush four more years, though, and I'm not even going to think about it.


edited to insert: exists designed

[Eric J in MN]

6. It's going to be close. It may be decided by Ohio or Florida.

There are lots of Diebold machines in Ohio, and while it's true there is no evidence they will corruptly favor Bush, if they do, we're in trouble.

Regarding Florida, 40,000 of the 60,000 people who were taken off the rolls before the 2000 election are STILL off the rolls.

And Theresa LaPore of Palm Beach, Florida is insisting on electronic machines with no paper trail. I don't know if these machines will corruptly favor Bush, but that would be a problem as well.

[DUreader]

12. Why don't you address the black box voting issue in your reply?

o

[BigDaddyLove]

14. He did.........

He doesn't believe it's as big an issue as it's fashionable to believe it is.

[pretzel4gore]

5. too frightening maybe...

even hardened political vets who've seen everything cannot imagine what bush inc has done (or will do) after all, this is USA we're talkin' 'bout!

[Eric J in MN]

7. John Kerry, John Edwards, Wesley Clark, and Joe Trippi (of Dean campaign)

John Kerry, John Edwards, Wesley Clark, and Joe Trippi (of Dean campaign) have all made comments about black-box voting broadcast on C-Span or another channel.

Dennis Kucinich is a co-sponsor of HR 2239, the Voter Confidence Act, which bans black-box voting.

So even if Michael Moore doesn't comment, we aren't without support from major figures.

[BigDaddyLove]

8. Why wait for Michael Moore, Franken, etc. etc............

just get up off of your own ass and DO SOMETHING about it if you think something needs to get done.

[Sperk]

15. O.K. I'll get on CNN and discuss it, cause I usually get called more

often than Moore and Fraken. :eyes: I'm doing all I know to do. I've called my Rep Multiple times on this, I've told all my friends and co workers. I've joined DU in hopes of connecting with others who believe democracy is dead.

But then again, I have my moments where I think, "let it be". I know that sounds horrible but I sometimes wonder if America needs to hit rock bottom. Sort of like a druggie in denial. Even if we defeated Smirky in 2004, this group of neo-cons along will there billions of dollars from corrupt CEOs, would not go away. It would be Clinton all over again. Maybe our politicians are just a reflection of ourselves??? (well, not us at DU, but the general population..you know what I mean.)

[BigDaddyLove]

17. I think it's a question of expectation.......

Too many people expect American Democracy to be something that it's not.

It's a corrupt system, it favors the top few over the lower majority; as it's desinged to do. To expect it to funtion 'fairly' for all is to set yourself up for pain. In this county, money talks, there is no such thing as 'The Voice of the People'....the only voice that gets listened to is that of the people who can do something for those in power.

To paraphrase Jim Hightower: You don't matter.

[pretzel4gore]

19. reading 'Babbitt' : and a chilling afterward...

the trend in USA was to allow the worst hypocritical ruthless and mean spirited element in its politics to thrive, as if the rest feel guilty of denying them their vision; Babbitt was written in 1920's and the afterward was from the early '60's, but the writer even then noted the calamity that would result if majority lost control of those representing the mentality of the George Babbitts in america's politics...
that has actually happened (?)

[kerry-is-my-prez]

9. wrong thread

n/t

[Vitruvius]

10. Moore picked the one project that can utterly undermine Bu$h's 'legitimacy

I don't know whether doing that or BBV is more important -- but better for Moore to complete ONE project before the election than to have two INCOMPLETE projects.

The problem is we only have one Michael Moore; we need two, three, many Moores. Moore had to make a choice; and he made a good choice in working on the Bu$h-Saudi-binLaden-9/11 connection.

Also, Moore may know more about LIHOP or MIHOP than we do -- if so, no 'way could he pass up the opportunity to document & exploit such information.

In the meantime, we do have Bev Harris & co -- and they are doing an excellent job... And stealing an election requires plausibilty; if Moore and others can delegitimize Bu$h by documenting him as the LIHOP bin Laden collaborator he is, Bu$h may try & steal the election anyway, but nobody will believe it.

We are headed for some interesting times...


(Upon edit) In the meantime, I ABSOLUTELY agree with BigDaddyLove's message 8, above.

[morningglory]

13. There were irregularities in Colly-four-nia with BBV and

nothing was done, except try to get BBV machines in all precincts. What up with that?

[Bushfire]

16. Michael made blackboxvoting.com his link of the week a while back

could be 4-5 months ago by now, but it was after his latest book was released. How do I remember? He linked shortly after I handed him a couple BBV articles from Salon personally at a signing. I imagine I was not alone asking for him to get involved somehow. Everyone can do their share, and hope those with the media's ear can do more as well. Franken was also given the same articles by me personally, and said he's been hearing about Diebold from across the country. Congress knows about this issue too, but needs to be pushed a little harder by us all. Don't give up the fight, and don't think you are alone. Don't forget to ask your senators about the Graham bill that mirrors the Holt bill. They may be in recess still, but their local offices still take calls this Monday probably.

[Iverson]

18. It was always up to citizens, not celebrities.

It's nice if you can get celebrities on your side, but our talking to each other and our neighbors and so on is what will make the difference in hearts and minds.O