What Bill Gates Says About Campaign 2004

[JailForBush]

According to Bill Gates, the next presidential election is dead on arrival. Actually, Mr. Gates hasn't really said those words; after all, he's quietly shoveling money into the pockets of corrupt Democrats and Republicans alike.

But use your thinking skills. Democrats are supposed to stand for justice and equality. We all know the party has sold its soul to the devil, but the truest liberals have sought refuge here on Democratic Underground. Unfortunately, the Vichy Democrats have followed.

How can Democrats say they're for the people, and therefore against corporate corruption, when so many PRAISE Bill Gates??? Check out the thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php That's very typical. Every time someone posts a message about Bill Gates, corporate apologists crawl out of the woodwork to support that jackass with the lamest and most disgusting arguments they can dream up.

"It's HIS money. He can do whatever he wants with it."

(Ditto for George W. Bush?)

"People buy his products."

(Can you spell M-O-N-O-P-O-L-Y. DUH...)

"Microsoft employs so many people!"

(Gee, do you think Microsoft's competitors might employ people if the government protected them from corporate crooks?)

"Bill Gates hasn't been convicted of a crime, so he isn't a crook."

(George W. Bush hasn't been technically convicted, either. Was Adolph Hitler?)

"Just think of all the wonderful things Bill Gates has done for Seattle!"

(Gee, let me count them! He cost me my job. He's still screwing my students. Rents have gone up. Local government is more corrupt. He's outsourcing jobs to India. His partner in crime, Paul Allen, is an even bigger asshole than Gates. Bill Gates' name has been attached to lots of buildings. To be continued...)

"You're just jealous of Bill Gates."

(The terrorists who attacked America on 9/11 were just jealous of our civil liberties.)

"Bill Gates has done SO much for public education!"

(No kidding. Visit Google and see if you can track down the article about the more than 500 schools that Bill Gates blackmailed.)

"Bill Gates' father is taking a courageous stand against the estate tax!"

(Sheez, could you have been born a bigger sucker?!)

"Bill Gates is a classic rags to riches story."

(Right, the son of a corporate legal whore who was sent to the exclusive Lakeside School for Boys, alma mater of Seattle's most famous pedophile - and one of its richest citizens - is a real inspiration for people born in the ghetto.)

"You're just a socialist!"

(Are you sure you're on the right chatboard. I know Republicans like to label people who promote corporate accountability "socialists." If you have so much contempt for socialism, you really don't deserve a 40-hour work week, overtime pay, union protection and child labor laws - all brought to you by socialism.)

Now, I'm not saying that Bill Gates proves George Bush can't be beat - though it's going to be a lot tougher with all those corporate apologists dragging the Democratic Party down. But even if Bush is booted out of office, how can we expect President Kucinich, Dean or Clark to clean house if the rank and file consists largely of Microsoft eunuchs?

People need to wake up and decide whose side they're on. You can't oppose corporate corruption and defend Bill Gates at the same time. Get a clue - or get out.

[cavebat2000]

1. Well

He did pretty much bring about the computer revolution. Without win98 we might not have DU. Hes not that bad of a guy honestly. He donates millions and millions of dollars each year to charities. No offense but I think you just dont like him because hes uber rich.

[alfredo]

3. those 'donations' have some strings attached.

quite often it will mean tying your organization to a long term contract that will end up costing you a lot of money. Too often the donations go to countries contemplating a move to open source software.

[JailForBush]

4. Huh?

Bill Gates created the computer revolution?

Right, and Al Gore invented the Internet. I guess that makes George W. Bush the King of E-mail, huh?

[alfredo]

5. Not really. what he got he stole, copied, or bought.

He got the interface from Apple. He just took it, and flipped it horizontal and vertical.

Quality is not his thing, market dominance is.


You like paying to be a beta tester for Gates?

[barbaraann]

10. No, Xerox Parc did that and many other companies copied what

Xerox did. Also, Seymour Rubenstein started the microcomputer software industry with WordStar.

[Cocoa]

15. our tax dollars created the Internet

let's not give Gates too much credit, the Internet arose out of a Defense Dept. program.

[Silverhair]

2. You are simply anti-freedom.

The only way to defend my freedom to spend my small amount of money as I see fit, it to also defend Gate's freedom to spend his huge amount of money as he sees fit.

That's why the ALCU is defending Rush, even though Rush didn't ask them to. They realize that to defend their own freedoms, they have to defend Rush's right to doctor-patient confidentiality.

I supposwe you would like to see some gov't bureau, with yourself at the top of the bureau, that decides for people what they do with their money. Why are so many of the hard left so anti-freedom?

[JailForBush]

6. Allow me to apply some logic to your post.

1. "You are simply anti-freedom."

Right, and the terrorists who attacked America on 9/11 were just jealous of our civil liberties.

2. "The only way to defend my freedom to spend my small amount of money as I see fit, it to also defend Gate's freedom to spend his huge amount of money as he sees fit."

So if the government took certain actions against the illegal and immoral Software Empire, it would somehow hurt your ability to spend $25 on a pair of shoes? Or are you worried that if you become a multi-billionaire one day, you might not be allowed to buy your neighbors' homes? I'm sure that's a big concern for many Americans these days. Uh huh.

3. "That's why the ALCU is defending Rush, even though Rush didn't ask them to. They realize that to defend their own freedoms, they have to defend Rush's right to doctor-patient confidentiality."

You're comparing rotten apples and sour oranges. Rush Limbaugh doesn't monopolize the radio industry, let alone the asshole industry. Bill Gates has never been sued for breaching doctor-patient confidentiality, that I'm aware of.

However, Microsoft software IS an enormous menace to the very privacy you claim to care so much about. But that probably doesn't bother you.

4. "I supposwe you would like to see some gov't bureau, with yourself at the top of the bureau, that decides for people what they do with their money."

Yeah, right. And while I'm at it, I might use your logic to decide if murderers and rapists should be punished for their crimes. "It's HIS penis - he can do what he wants with it!"

5. "Why are so many of the hard left so anti-freedom?"

I'd like to say, "Nice bit of propaganda," but it isn't. It's so transparent even a sixth grader could see through it.

Why are you such a Nazi?

[BigDaddyLove]

7. "Why are you such a Nazi?"

Bullshit like this sometimes makes DU a sad place to be.

[JailForBush]

16. "Why are you such a Nazi" - Bullshit that cheapns this forum!

No kidding. You must be REALLY outraged by this jab:

"Why are so many of the hard left so anti-freedom?"

Isn't that pathetic?

[BigDaddyLove]

22. Yes in a way it is..........

I wouldn't use the words "anti-freedom" sum up my feelings with regard to the hard-left that SilverHair was talking about, but you do seem to be demanding that others share in your distaste for Bill Gates and Microsoft....and if they don't you call them a Nazi (at least in this case).

I disagree with your point of view regarding Bill Gates, I think he and his company have done more good than harm in this world; but that's just my opinion.....you are 'free' to disagree with it.

[JailForBush]

29. Read Between the Lines

"I wouldn't use the words "anti-freedom" sum up my feelings with regard to the hard-left that SilverHair was talking about, but you do seem to be demanding that others share in your distaste for Bill Gates and Microsoft....and if they don't you call them a Nazi (at least in this case)."

I called him a Nazi because he labeled me "anti-freedom." I was making a point - one that shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

And I wouldn't say I demand that others share my distaste for Bill Gates any more than I demand that others despise murderes and rapists. After all, it IS a free country; Hell, virtually every member of the Seattle School Board is a corporate whore.

"I disagree with your point of view regarding Bill Gates, I think he and his company have done more good than harm in this world; but that's just my opinion.....you are 'free' to disagree with it."

Gee, thanks!

[PVnRT]

24. "Why are you such a corporate apologist?"

Pot, meet kettle...

[MacCovern]

62. All of a sudden there are Nazis everywhere!

Yes, you are right. This Nazi name calling is disgraceful.
There's no need to call other DUers Nazis.

Unless the Nazi party is having a resurgence in America to such
an extent that a significant amount of users on Democratic Underground
are labeled as Nazis. Apparently the November election will see B*ush
thrown out of office when a real Nazi is elected.

I just wish we would all end this Nazi stuff. If you people would read
a book or two on the Third Reich, such as "Inside the Third Reich", or read up about the horrors of the Nazi regime in WWII, you would be less
likely to label someone with that word!

[JailForBush]

64. Think Real Hard

"Yes, you are right. This Nazi name calling is disgraceful.
There's no need to call other DUers Nazis."

1. You need to be focusing on people who label those of us who champion truth and justice "anti-American," "unpatriotic," etc.

"I just wish we would all end this Nazi stuff. If you people would read
a book or two on the Third Reich, such as "Inside the Third Reich", or read up about the horrors of the Nazi regime in WWII, you would be less
likely to label someone with that word!"

2. Think again. "The Nazis" weren't just people in uniform. They were supported - or at least not opposed - by ordinary Germans. Something very similar is happening here in America. Can you guess what it is? (Hint: People who passionately defend George W. Bush and Bill Gates.)

Think about it.

[0007]

39. The truth hurts!

[Silverhair]

20. So everybody who disagrees with you is a Nazi?

I addressed one and only one point - the right of Bill Gates to spend his personal money on buying houses around him from willing sellers. That was what the original post was about.

Because I defend that right for all of us, you attack me as a Nazi, and try to put me in the position of defending everything else about him. That is false. On most of those things, I don't know enough to have an opinion. I know that the actions of the gov't against him were dropped, and that the money is legally his.

I decline to discuss other aspects of his business, because I am not able to intelligently address them.

It is obvious that you have a passionate hatred of Gates. That is your problems. Even though you hate him, he has right too, and you have to respect those rights. In your attack on his personal rights, you are taking an anti-freedom stance. Therefore - in this case - you are anti-freedom.

[JailForBush]

37. Hmmmmmm...

"I addressed one and only one point - the right of Bill Gates to spend his personal money on buying houses around him from willing sellers. That was what the original post was about."

Uh, no. I suggest you go back and read the original post again. (SHEEZ)

"Because I defend that right for all of us, you attack me as a Nazi, and try to put me in the position of defending everything else about him."

Wrong again. You accused me of being "anti-freedom," or something like that, so I gave you a taste of your own medicine. And you were on the defensive from square one, because everything you say is indefensible.

"That is false. On most of those things, I don't know enough to have an opinion."

Now you're on the right track.

"I decline to discuss other aspects of his business, because I am not able to intelligently address them."

Right again.

"It is obvious that you have a passionate hatred of Gates."

Really? How did you figure that out?

"That is your problems."

Just mine? What about the various corporations and states that have sued Bill Gates? The millions of people who have been screwed by Gates? Isn't it their problem, too?

Oh, that's right - you don't know about anything except real estate (which was NOT what the original post was about). Nevermind.

"Even though you hate him, he has right too, and you have to respect those rights. In your attack on his personal rights, you are taking an anti-freedom stance. Therefore - in this case - you are anti-freedom."

And you're a Nazi. (Didn't we already cover this?)

[Jose Diablo]

9. Ask the folks at Digital Research about freedom

After all Bill got his really really big (as Ed would say) start by reverse engineering DR-DOS and selling it to IBM as MS-DOS. I am sure the folks at DR just loved Billy's freedom when he did that.

Then of course there was the illegal packaging deal forced on the IBM clone manufactures that forced them too exclude other manufactures of OS systems from selling to the clone OEM's.

Don't forget the numerous, numerous I say, software companies woo'ed by Microsoft, only to find after they provided details of the core of their software, the very same packages were included free in the next release of windows.

Then of course we must not forget Billy rushing back to Seattle after meeting with 'high' government officials to work on some very 'special' features in the next software bundles released. Nobody seems to know what was in these packages. Suspicious that I am, I think there was some 'backdoors' placed so our good buddies in Washington could spy on us. And of course prepare microsoft access for the voting machine software.

Nope, I am sorry. I don't consider Bill to be a guy that really should be looked on as a rags to riches story. I think he is little more than a common thief.

[moof]

11. You are correct JailForBush

all the things you mention and more make it hard to think that
people with the slightest ability to think could think otherwise.

You left out one that is a personal favorite,

When is some group of greedy Lawyers going to sue this jerk with a class action suit for his part in causing the Y2L scare.

To people with the mindset of post #3 author here,

Also the reason this criminal has so much money is because he uses his money to make sure that the only money you spend on software is his software by either buying or destroying his compition thru illegal business practices.

Since billy bob likes Coke, would it be ok if he purchased all the soft drink companies on Earth, switched their production to coke & tripled the price, would you still argue you had the freedom to spend your money on softdrinks anyway you pleased ? Afterall if it wasn't for billy you wouldn't have any soft drinks.

[JailForBush]

14. Ha! How could I forget Y2K!

Speaking of which, I thought South Korea was going to sue Microsoft for one of its countless mega-screwups.

Which reminds me, the European Union is battling the Microsoft monopoly, while China, Japan and South Korea are teaming up on Red Flag Linux, which could be an awesome competitor.

If Americans are too stupid and spineless to fight Bill Gates, maybe the rest of the world will do the job for us. I can't wait to get my copy of Red Flag Linux! Then Republicans and Vichy Democrats can call me a "Socialist" all the want! LOL

[debannbull]

8. He may not be the most admirable corporate giant

who ever squeezed a buck till it cried, but he saw to it that every single public library in this country got at least one top-of-the line computer. My desperately poor rural library rec'd four, + a swank printer. I see correlations to Carnegie and the dissemination of knowledge for the betterment of all, despite being stinking filthy rich...

[JailForBush]

13. Bill Gates bought Apple computers for your library?

You wrote, "He saw to it that every single public library in this country got at least one top-of-the line computer."

Since when did Bill Gates promote Apple/Mac computers?

"My desperately poor rural library rec'd four, + a swank printer. I see correlations to Carnegie and the dissemination of knowledge for the betterment of all, despite being stinking filthy rich..."

Oh, really. So you don't think there might be some correlation between buying a COMPUTER for your library and promoting MICROSOFT SOFTWARE (or massive tax-writeoffs, public relations, etc.)?

Oh, that's right - he bought APPLE computers for your library.

[moof]

18. What a crock

so if ken lay sees to it that every library in America gets a couple computers, that would make it ok that he stole the money & ruined the lives of thousands of people. But you got your little bribe so you will stick up for the crook , right.

[cavebat2000]

67. Thank you

[Must_B_Free]

12. Gates is over

the next revolution in microcomputers is the recreationg of everything microsoft WITHOUT a price tag. Yes,'free' is the last step in the evolution of software.

[Jose Diablo]

19. I think so too

Linux and open source will surely put a big dent in mocrosoft.

[Silverhair]

23. Is Linux free? n/t

[Jose Diablo]

26. Yes Linux is free

You do pay for support if you buy Red Hat, but the Linux kernal is free, as are literally 1000's of Linux ap's.

[Silverhair]

35. So how do their programers make money? They have to eat too. n/t

[JailForBush]

41. I'm here to help you.

Any time you're lost, just ask me to help straighten you out.

You suggest that Linux programmers earn money, apparently thinking that negates the argument that Linux is free.

In fact, SOME Linux varieties are free, others cost money - though I believe even the paid versions are significantly cheaper (and much more reliable) than Microshaftware.

To round out the picture, consider the software that runs on Linux. Much of it is free, also. However, there are also paid versions. Compare OpenOffice (free) to StarOffice (paid).

If you buy Windows, you have to pay for most of your other software - much of which is very expensive. And if you buy Microsoft, you're generally getting a lot of crap with your purchase, plus you're supporting corporate corruption.

If you use Linux as an operating platform, you can often choose between free and paid software. The freeware is often sufficient for ordinary use; paid versions are often purchased by business or individuals with special needs - and the money to buy it. Isn't choice wonderful?

Another funny thing about paid Linux programmers is that they tend to negate the argument that there would be no jobs if Microsoft didn't exist. It's true - Linux creates jobs, too! The icing on the cake: If you don't want Linux programming, you don't have to buy it!

Now that I've coached you, you might be able to see that the REAL "socialists" - using the Demopublican definition - are the Microsofties. After all, they limit your choices - often severely. They also punish you, no matter what choice you make. After all, we live in a Microsoft world.

But if you go with Linux, you enter the world of choice and competition. Apple is sort of a compromise; Apple is a big, wealthy corporation, and it's products are very expensive. But they're much better than Microsoft. Did you know that Apple, like Linux, is based on Unix? It makes sense; why would Apple want to base a computer that's famed for its quality on something as crappy as Microsoft?

Thank you for allowing me to help you see the light. I've already moved my websites from Microshaft to Linux servers, and I hope to migrate my computer itself in the near future. I hope you'll join the patriotic Americans who have come to see Microsoft for what it is - corporate fascism.

[Silverhair]

46. The question was an honest one.

I don't trust "free" stuff. Perhaps you have heard the phrase: "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." Anything that uses resources and has value, has to be paid for by somebody, somewhere. So when I see free, I get suspicious. I think you can understand that reaction.

I do appreciate information. Since the programs that I run only work with Windows, I am pretty much confined to Windows. (I don't desire to talk about what I do in an open forum. If you want to continue that part of the converstation, we can do that by PM. // I just checked. The applications that I use for my income are Windows only.) Understand that I am not a geek, nor do I have the inclination to become one. It is entirely possible to drive a car without being a mechanic.

Our disagreement, on my part, is strickly confined to the issue of Bill Gates having the freedom to spend money that is legally his on buying real estate from willing sellers.

[JailForBush]

52. The Letter of the Law or the Spirit

"Our disagreement, on my part, is strickly confined to the issue of Bill Gates having the freedom to spend money that is legally his on buying real estate from willing sellers."

Gee, it's hard to argue with that - until you consider the ramifications of the word "legally." If I find a way to kill someone without risking legal conviction as a murderer, does that make it OK?

Even if it WAS OK, Bill Gates' right to buy things is such a tiny part of what the original post is about as to be virtually meaningless.

We might as well argue about George W. Bush's right to get a decent haircut.

[Silverhair]

53. Perhaps you should reread the original post.

It was: "Gates quietly spends $14 million buying homes near Medina estate" by donsu. Link is: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1027906&mesg_id=1027906

The post is critical of him buying the properties around him.

I defended his right to do that. You, in you starting post of this thread, picked my statement, "It is his money..." from that thread and made it part of your thread. Your thread does indeed discuss many other things. MY original comment, and I stand by it, is that it is HIS money.

Our rights are based on legalities. While I personally think that
O J Simpson did commit the murders, I would still have to defend his rights based on the court decisions. Does that make OJ right? Only God can make that judgment. For now, we must make do with the laws of man - and that means that OJ walks. It also means that the money belongs to Bill.

The alternative to the rule of law is anarchy, or dictatorship.

[JailForBush]

55. Geez, could you REACH any more?

No, the original post begins THIS THREAD, which does indeed comment on another thread, but it discusses much more.

"The alternative to the rule of law is anarchy, or dictatorship."

One could argue that the law itself has become anarchy. Or haven't you been paying attention to George W. Bush lately? No, holding Bill Gates accountable would not bring on anarchy, even if we violated the law. Sheez, how many laws are being regularly violated by corporations already?

Another point: Why are people like you so obsessed with defending Bill Gates' right to spend his money any way he wants? There are major issues facing us, issues that threaten the very survival of life on Earth. There are millions of people who are much better than Bill Gates but are living in POVERTY. Yet you're obsessed with defending poor old Bill Gates' right to spend money.

That puts your arguments in stark perspective. Get a political life.

[Silverhair]

57. So now you object to what I chose to write about?

What I chose to write about here is MY freedom, subject to my agreement with the administrators to abide by the rules of the forum.

[JailForBush]

65. Jesus, Christ, GET OVER YOURSELF.

It's amazing how you defend a corporate crook like Bill Gates, then turn around and cry when someone attacks YOUR freedoms (e.g. opposing what you write on a forum or threatening your right to gobble up neighbors' property if you become a billionaire some day; Sheez!).

Yes, you can choose to write about any silly thing you choose. I merely pointed out the BS emanating from some of your posts (e.g. ALL of them). Do you oppose my right to do that? Am I threatening you with anarchy?

[Silverhair]

68. No, I don't defend Bill Gates, I defend his rights.

I suppose the difference is lost on you. Perhaps you believe that those whom you are against should not have any rights?

[JailForBush]

69. You defend Bill Gates' rights? Well bless your heart!

I find it utterly astounding that so many Americans defend Bill Gates' rights (as if he can't afford a stable full of attorneys) while virtually no one gives a damn about children's rights, let alone the rights of workers, teachers, consumers, etc.

But, hey - it's a free country. Better warped priorities than no priorities at all, right?

[Nomad559]

28. Download Is free

Yes you can download It for free, and according to David ( JailForBush )

If you don't use It, your a stupid Republican Nazi.

[billyskank]

44. Linux is free, and that's free as in speech

not necessarily free as in beer. Although it often is free as in beer, too. The original vision was for free software, free referring to freedom; liberty. It's not actually a crusade against paying money for software.

The centre of the free software movement is the GNU General Public License - GPL. The idea is that all software released under the GPL gives the user the right to do what they like with it; see the source code, change it if they like, and distribute the software to anyone they like, for free or for a charge as they see fit, regardless of whether they paid for it themselves.

The main point about the GPL is that code licensed under it cannot be made proprietary by a third party: if you make modifications to GPL-ed software and release the subsequent code, it must be released under the GPL also. So nobody can take the code, change it and sell it as their own like Microsoft and others have done with code released under another free license, the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) license, which allows that sort of thing. The idea is that if you change GPL-ed software, your changes should be released back to the open-source community, for them to use if they so wish.

For more information see where it all began, www.gnu.org

On edit: corrected spelling of Berkeley

[JailForBush]

17. How many paid Microsoft supporters are on board?

Considering Bill Gates' wealth and power, it would be stupid to imagine he hasn't hired at least a few hired guns to defend his name on DU. Maybe that explains some of the exceptionally stupid comments we read here, especially those that sound so much like the standard Republican line - WHEN YOU ATTACK BILL GATES, YOU'RE ATTACKING ALL AMERICANS' FREEDOM!

[BigDaddyLove]

25. Do you mean support as in "I am now typing this reply........

via a Microsoft Windows product?"

Because that's really how one would show their truest support; a vote of confidence with their wallet sort of thing.

Which operating system are you using at the moment?

[JailForBush]

31. Another Stupid Argument

Go get a dictionary and look up the word M-O-N-O-P-O-L-Y.

To put it in perspective, there are probably hundreds of millions of people around the world who use Windows. Are they all Microsoft whores?

Of course not. Most are just unwitting consumers (many of whom still aren't aware of the many ways they've been screwed by Microsoft). Many people who are aware of Microsoft's corruption still use Microsoft products, because we live in a Microsoft world. For example, some employers require that job applications be submitted via Microsoft Word.

My operating system is Windows XP Pro, which isn't nearly as bad as Microsoft Millennium. I bought a computer loaded with Windows years ago, before I was fully aware of Bill Gates' corruption. All my software is Windows compatible. So insisting that I instantly switch to something else is similar to telling people who criticize the U.S. government they should move to China. BIG CLUE: I don't speak Chinese.

But everyone can and should make an effort to migrate away from Microsoft. My websites are all now hosted on Linux/Apache - the Internet standard.

And if I can afford to switch my operating system to Linux or Apple, I will. In fact, I expect to make the change in the next few weeks. But if I NEVER make the change, that doesn't make me a Microsoft whore, nor does it undermine any of the truth's I've spoken.

Again, look up the definition of the word monopoly, then see if you can understand how it influences people's lives. It really isn't that hard to figure out.

[BigDaddyLove]

32. Yep..........

thought so.

:hi:

[Jose Diablo]

36. Set-up a second partition

With a duel boot switch and load linux on the second partition. You can run this way until you accumulate enough knowledge and software ap's on linux to wean yourself from microsoft. And switch back to windows if you need an ap you have not acquired or do not understand yet.

Ever wonder what the big controversy about 'open source' is all about. Can you say, monopoly busting.

[billyskank]

47. Linux Rules!

:linuxrules:

On edit: Gah! The linux emoticon has gone!! (Must be cause nobody ever used it).

[Silverhair]

49. My problem with Linux.

The programs that I use for my income are Windows only. For me, a switch to Linux, would mean shutting down one of the ways I make my income. Linux may appeal to geeks, but for ordinary computer users, Windows has the advantages.

[Jose Diablo]

54. It doesn't take a geek to use Linux

After the tough stuff like setting-up a duel partition and loading the kernel and ap's, using Linux is no harder than windows. There is even a ap..xwin...than looks like mocrosofts windows..which was appropriated from some other company I am sure...I think it was Apple.

See post 36, then find a geek for the partitioning, or even (gasp) buy red hat and call support for partitioning and help loading.

Piece of cake. You will love Linux.

[Silverhair]

58. Except that my income producing programs are Windows only.

I checked. And the other stuff that you talked about is geekspeak.

[Rabrrrrrr]

27. Bill Gates is not Microsoft

And Microsoft is not Bill Gates.

Please differentiate your righteous hatred for the monopoly of Microsoft from your hatred of the man Bill Gates, who, as we know, helped make Microsoft such a big nasty company, but who is not, himself, Microsoft.

Reading this thread, it seems to me you are continually equating the two.

[JailForBush]

33. Bill Gates is not Microsoft???

Sheez, that's the most brilliant argument I've heard yet - NOT.

Bill Gates founded Microsoft. Bill Gates still owns and runs Microsoft, even if he has officially taken a new job title.

Saying Bill Gates is not Microsoft is like saying Warren isn't Buffet.

[barbaraann]

21. Microsoft's latest settlement for illegal behavior.

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/perl/story/32612.html

Just the latest.

[moof]

30. another crok

This case is what happens almost every time.

It's like someone steals your car but gets to keep using it as long as they can keep appealing it in court. When they have finally used up your car & have stoled someone else's wheels they leave yours on the side of the road & go on their way after paying you the court ordered fine of one dollar per 10,000 miles of use.

[Silverhair]

34. Bill Gates one great accomplishment.

Standardization. Before DOS, it was difficult for one computer to talk to another, or for one program to work on another. I got my first office computer, back when I owned a small insurance agency, for my office if '89. I was able to buy comercial programs to do what I needed. I didn't have the time or inclination to learn to be a geek.

For desktop computers to transition from a hobbist's plaything, to a genuine office tool, require that they become simpler to operate, and more versitle. Versitility required that the operating systems on the various manufactures machines be able to read the same programs. That required standardization. Gates achieved that.

Perhaps you geek types may be in rapsody over Apple & Linux. But when I go to a store to buy a program, I know that almost everything there will work nicely on my Windows XP. For a company making a program, it would be a real expense if they had to make different designs of the same programs to reach each of the different markets. But since all the computers, except a few, can read Windows, they can make one design and reach most of the market, therefore reducing their costs, and making the programs cheaper.

Was Gates ethical or not in his business dealings? I don't know. I am not competent to answer that question. But he did bring about STANDARDIZATION, and that is a huge accomplishment.

Consider this. QWERTY is NOT the best arangement for speed typing. It was designed in the day when typists needed to be slowed down so they didn't jam the machinery. But by it becoming the standard arrangement, it enable a person to type on any machine. Imagine if you had to learn a new keyboard arrangement, for each manufacturer. Standardization enabled schools to teach typing, knowing that it would be universally applicable.

Same thing with computers. Until a level of standardization was reached, they couldn't be usable to the average person.

Gates did bring about that standardization.

[moof]

40. still another crock but with Irony

but you are correct on the analogy

qwerty keyboard = microsoft

devork keyboard = almost any other operating system

[Silverhair]

51. The choice was deliberate.

I am well aware that geeks love Linux. And speed typists use devork. However, if I am not a speed typist, so for me there is no difference between devork or qwerty for actual use. And finding a devork keyboard is not exactly easy. (OK, with the Internet I could find some place to order one from. But before that, they were very hard to find. In fact, I have never seen one.) So for the average user, who will be seeing qwerty everywhere, and rarely if ever come across a devork, qwerty is the arrangement to learn.

Similar with comuter systems. Windows is the standard. You can find programs for it with ease, and some programs, (Like the ones I use for much of my income) are Windows only.

[JailForBush]

66. Windows only? Some CHOICE, huh?

Gosh, it's hard to imagine that Microsoft could contribute to an marketplace devoid of competition and choice, isn't it? What do you suppose is going on here?

[Jose Diablo]

42. The 'standardization" would have happened even without Billy

The Internet forced communication definitions and protocol standards.

This would have happened even without Microsoft. DARPA had more to do with development of TCP/IP standards than Microsoft. It was the military and colleges that inter-connected the core Internet we see today, not Microsoft.

As far as the Internet, Microsoft didn't even believe it would take off the way it did.

Microsoft is not the innovator many believe it to be. Many of the good software ideas came from small start-ups, only to see thier products absorbed by this big behemoth.

Of course, there are plenty of people around to claim it was Microsoft's baby. "Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan".

Edit, crummy spelling, sorry

[Triana]

38. bill gates & mickeysnot...

...and the plutocracy that run this country (which mickeysnot is part of) is a huge reason I am switching to Linux (even Solaris, though SUN is another corprat) and open-source wherever possible.

I'm sick of MickeySnot. I have one computer that is XP in my office, another is windoze 2003 and another Linux and another Solaris. Next box I get will be pre-loaded with Linux. I'm not buying anymore systems loaded with mickeysnot OS.

There's no way to completely escape corpratz, but one can - when there are viable choices - do a little talking with their dollar, at least.

[JailForBush]

43. Thank you for contributing to this thread!

I'm creating a new anti-Microsoft website. For an introductory article, I wanted to compile a list of some of the standard lame arguments Demopublicans used to defend Bill Gates. Most of them popped up on this thread.

I also got some good input from folks who recognize Bill Gates for what he is: A criminal and a global menace.

Stay tuned!

[Nomad559]

48. anti-Microsoft

How long have you been using Linux David?

[JailForBush]

50. About two months now. N/T

[YNGW]

45. Do you consider yourself to be an anti-capitalist?

nc

[JailForBush]

56. Am I anti-capitalist?

I wouldn't say I'm pro- or anti- any major economic system. I see a lot of potential good and evil in both socialism and capitalism.

My focus is more on ACCOUNTABILITY. Any economic system will blow up in your face if citizens aren't held accountable.

I tend to favor a generally capitalist system with a little socialism thrown in (e.g. the U.S. Post Office) - you know, the system that served us relatively well for generations, until corporations began dodging accountability and our entire country was swallowed up by corruption.

[durutti]

59. A boss is a boss is a boss.

Microsoft is no more exploitative than would be any other corporation in its position.

[Jose Diablo]

60. No sir, its not about Boss-Employee

It's about using a position (Illegally obtained), to take the Intellectual Property of another company.

Employees generally are under 'work for hire' law meaning what they create is owned buy the employer.

When a company obtains the property of another company through ways that are illegal then this is a form of theft.

By using its position as the operating system, all software must be in compliance with the so called application program interface (API)specification. If the company producing the operating system makes the API vague or even fails to disclose to other software vendors the exact API specifications, you get things like blue screen's when the application doesn't work properly after being created. Anybody remember Windows 95?

It would be easy to solve the problem, IF the API specification was published. Anybody? When was the full API spec published for Win95?

[Deja Q]

61. "Microsoft employs so many people!" - Better ask how many of them are

citizens of another country.

America's companies should be for America's citizens first.

If a company finds India to be more profitable, fine. Then they can haul their sorry asses out and give up on everything the US has given them.

A bunch of fuckin' traitors, they are.

[NewJeffCT]

63. Bush

I think you're incorrect - has Bush been arrested 3 times? I don't know about convictions, but 3 arrests is pretty bad for anybody. You can write it off to a wild youth, but I never got arrested in my wild youth.