NASA study used *census* information for terror profile

[Newsjock]

In GD because it's past the sell-by date for LBN by one day.
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040118-114335-2930r.htm

By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

U.S. census information provided by millions of Americans was used in a government study to profile airline passengers as terrorist risks.

... The NASA study highlights concerns among civil-liberties advocates that the government is gathering private information and even using its own data -- contrary to repeated official assurances from the Census Bureau -- to develop a data-mining system to prescreen all airline passengers.

... Bill Scannell, president of the group DontSpyOnUs.com, called the inclusion of census information "absolutely appalling."

"Information given by American citizens for reasonable demographics information has been turned around and used to spy on people. This sounds like East Berlin, circa '74," said Mr. Scannell, a privacy advocate.

more

[htuttle]

1. Is there any precedent for this?

We were one of those households whom the census tracked individually since 1990 (they pick a random sample of households to interview every few years and track between census years), and was assured over and over that the information would not, could not, be used for any other purpose.

I'm just wondering whether this has ever happened before?

[DevilsAdvocate2]

2. Definitely not cool

I am about as anti-big brother as you can get, and the use of census info in this manner is cause for concern. However, I will say that I think we would all be safer if TSA and law enforcement engaged in some intelligent profiling. When 99% of terrorist acts are committed by Arab men between, say, 18-35, doesn't it make sense to subject that demographic to a little extra scrutiny at security checkpoints?

[fob]

4. Yeah, that would have worked great at the Ryder truck rental

where religous-right white conservative Tim McVeigh and his other white terrorist comrades-in-arms rented the truck before they blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma!

Yeah, you're on to something there.

[DevilsAdvocate2]

7. As i said, 99%

One incident is not indicative of a trend. Besides, I don't recall anyone complaining about profiles being developed during the sniper shootings in D.C. Could that be because the profile that was developed was for a middle-aged white male? If there are news reports of a gang of 3 white men, ages 18-21, breaking into houses in a neighborhood, does it make sense to question 60 year old women in the neighborhood?

[NicoleM]

11. The sniper profile--

how well did that work out again?

[Robbien]

6. Even in your example

they need to have the data on everyone to isolate the ones they want to closely watch. And what is their isolation criteria? How do you know you would not be excluded?

[WoodrowFan]

9. Then let's watch White Males

Well, according to the FBI's own figures, domestic terrorists have carrie d out more attacks in the US than foreigners, so that 99% example is silly at best.

Right-wing terrorist groups have been linked to several domestic terrorism attacks and plots in the United States, the most audacious being the Oklahoma City bombing that killed 168 people in 1995. Before the bombing, the FBI was working about 100 domestic terrorism cases, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Since the late 1990s it has been carrying close to 1,000 at any time.

Between 1980 and 2000, the FBI recorded 335 incidents or suspected incidents of terrorism in the United States, according to the Congressional testimony in February 2002 of Dale L. Watson, then the assistant director for counterterrorism and counterintelligence for the FBI.

"Of these, 247 were attributed to domestic terrorists, and 88 were determined to be international in nature," Watson said.

Watson's prepared remarks did not provide details, but he noted that right-wing extremism in the 1990s overtook left-wing terrorism "as the most dangerous domestic threat to the country."


http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=180&xlc=1112145

[DevilsAdvocate2]

13. What is terrorism?

What did the report classify as terrorism? Did it include ELF burning down houses under construction? What about the wrecking of SUVs? I am speaking of terrorism with the aim of killing as many people as possible. Terrorism on inanimate objects is vandalism. Terrorism with one or two victims (such as an abortion doctor) is murder. When buildings full of people get blown up (or targeted like WTC circa 1993, airliners brought down, or ships attacked, that is terrorism. And when terrorism is defined as such, the number of instances decreases dramatically.

[WoodrowFan]

14. Definition

The FBI further describes terrorism as either domestic or international, depending on the origin, base, and objectives of the terrorists:
Domestic terrorism is the unlawful use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States or its territories without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
International terrorism involves violent acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any state, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any state. These acts appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, or affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping. International terrorist acts occur outside the United States or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which the perpetrations operate or seek asylum.

http://www.terrorismfiles.org/encyclopaedia/terrorism.html


sorry, but you still can't say we should only be watching, or even spending 99% of our resources watching just Arab men.

[Robbien]

15. That is how you define terrorism

It may not be how someone else would. You do not know the criteria NASA is using when they are taking our private information to create their data base.

[ComerPerro]

17. You know the worst thing about the idea of "racial profiling" at airports?

John Walker Lindh. American. White. Male.

So are conservatives telling me that because he is white, he is not a threat to us? In the months immediately after 9/11, when this debate was really going strong, did they actually not consider that there are domestic terrorists here in the US?

The best way to combat this all would be to show people that many acts of terror, granted on a smaller scale, have been committed in the US by white, right-wing males who are US citizens.

Try telling your average dittohead, when he tells you that we need to carefully watch all muslims, that we need to also screen him because he is a white, conservative Christian.

[WoodrowFan]

19. plus the shoe bomber

Wasn't Reed the Shoe bomber half English and half Carribian? Bin Laden and company are smart enough to know that if we start paying most of our attention on Arab males between the age of 18-25, then then can more likely sneak someone past security that doesn't fit that profile. Al-Qaida is all muslim but not all muslims are Arab men. They have found recruits among northern Europeans, Asians, Latin Americans, etc. Racial profiling is not only offensive, it is STUPID.

[yellowcanine]

3. Why is NASA profiling terrorists anyway?

Are they afraid someone is going to hijack the space shuttle? This seems really, well, dumb.

[DevilsAdvocate2]

8. Good question

Why indeed?

[SoCalDem]

18. That was my first thought too.. NASA???

I thought we had a Homeland Security Department for this sort of thing?? Was Tom just too busy dusting the color chart totem pole, to have his own department do this??

[mike1963]

5. Here's a link to the federal statute concerning census data disclosure

http://help.econ.census.gov/econhelp/legal/section_excerpts.html#sec9

I'm not a lawyer, but it looks illegal to me...
:eyes:

[tom_paine]

10. Which is why I've never answered the census

I feel vindicated. Although, to be honest, in Imperial Amerika MANU institutions which used to serve the people now serve the Imperial and their friends solely.

And yes, Imperial Amerika is much more resembling of East Berlin 1974 than at any other time in our lives.

[Robb]

12. Let's remember the source.

One of my favorite Moonie Times articles about NASA (they really don't like NASA, I think) was this one from last year:

NASA plans to read terrorist's minds at airports

Which isn't to say WT is always full of crap...just mostly. I have found over the years it's best to wait and see if any other news source runs with a similar story. Sometimes they do, often they don't.

[Robbien]

16. Yes. Thanks, I missed that

It is senseless to discuss "99%" of anything the moonie paper prints.

[DUreader]

20. kick

[yella_dawg]

21. Wow!

Word of this gets out, next census, the data will indicate the nation is entirely populated by freepers.