"private medicine that makes America's health care the best in the world"

[shockingelk]

If America has the best health care in the world ... 




Part of President Bush's State of the Union Address was "By keeping costs under control, expanding access, and helping more Americans afford coverage, we will preserve the system of private medicine that makes America's health care the best in the world."

If America already has the "best" health care in the world, how can it be that the CIA Factbook list the following 28 nations as having both a lower infant mortality rate and longer life expectancy at birth?

Andorra
Macau
San Marino
Japan
Singapore
Australia
Switzerland
Sweden
Hong Kong
Canada
Iceland
Italy
Monaco
Liechtenstein
Spain
France
Norway
Greece
Aruba
Netherlands
Malta
New Zealand
Belgium
Austria
United Kingdom
Germany
Finland
Luxembourg

Continuing ... Bush said "A government-run health care system is the wrong prescription." Is there any country on that list that doesn't have socialized medicine?

[annagull]

1. This should be a commercial

PRIVATIZE medicare, over and over. after all, it's worked so well so far.. <sarcasm>

[Serenity-NOW]

2. It's the best if you are an HMO...

My relatives in Sweden are in shock and awe at this buffoon. They ask why we don't revolt as suggested in our very own Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

And that is part of what an armed militia is all about. Unfortunately, the Swedes and most every other citizen from countrys other than the US learn this stuff better than our own citizens.

[annagull]

3. We need some Vikings, and Now!!

This must be solved thru politics. Unfortunately, most Americans don't react to anything until they are put one the line. This president is hoping that will be after he is elected.... my feelers are going wild, I suddenly know alot of "former republicans/"

[Serenity-NOW]

5. Vikings? I'd settle for readers...

You can take a small test to determine if you are smarter than the president.

1: Do you read newspapers for yourself?

2: When reading children's books on camera do you hold the book right side up or upside down?

[Eric J in MN]

4. the cost of health care has been going up much faster than inflation

The cost of health care has been going up much faster than inflation.

George W. isn't keeping costs under control.

He's rejected 2 measures which could keep costs under control:

1) letting the federal govt negotiate the lowest price

2) pharmaceuticals from Canada

[Serenity-NOW]

7. Now 2 isn't entirely accurate...

Since the VA buys their drugs from Canada. But you don't get to because they are dangerous and scary even though they are made by the same firms. My mom buys her brand name meds online from Mexico and Canada at about 30% or less of what they go for here. I guess she's a scofflaw, must be the arthritis talking. She'll get hers if he has his way.

[shockingelk]

6. Some critics have said America has the best health care in the world ...

Some critics have said a government-run health care system is the wrong prescription. This particular criticism is hard to explain to our friends in Britain, Australia, Japan, Andorra, Macau, Finland, Italy, Spain, Singapore, Switzerland, Sweden, France, Canada, the Netherlands (Applause) ... Norway, Iceland, and the 17 other countries which provide their citizens with longer life-expectancies through socialized medicine (Applause), and the 18 other countries where state run heath systems ensure a lower infant mortality rate than we enjoy. (Long Applause.)

http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Life_expectancy_at_birth_dall.htm
http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm

[ouija_board]

8. Speaking from this end of the world...

... I can say I enjoy my completely free, universal, quality healthcare (paid for through taxes, of course, but "free" basically) and the fact that I can get medicines for $4 pretty well thanks, George. Coming from the background that I do, if I lived in America, I would be one of the 43 million people without any form of insurance.

Um, yay?

Healthcare is a basic, fundamental human right. We pay taxes to our popularly elected government so that they might provide us such rights. The notion that the responsibility should be on the shoulders of corporate entities is utterly mind-boggling to me.

[Kanary]

9. Hi ouija_board!

Welcome to DU!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

:toast:

What part of the world are you in?

Kanary

[ouija_board]

11. Sydney, Australia.

Cheers!

[Serenity-NOW]

12. Out of curiousity what was your take when

das shrub changed the speech rules for your electors on his visit ouija_board? Made me chafe and I live in the US, I like to travel and I've always heeded the 'ol 'when in Rome' guideline for not being branded an 'ugly American'.

[ouija_board]

13. I was disgusted.

There is a lot of anti-American sentiment (non-violent, I should say, of the kind you'd expect of any normal dissenters of government policy) growing here because of the actions of Bush and that just added fuel to the fire. The nerve of that guy, to come into OUR country and tell us to change OUR laws to suit him. So arrogant and it's that kind of thing that makes allies turn away from America. Calling us "Deputy Sherriffs" and waltzing in and trying to make us change our own laws is so disrespectful and condescending, I don't even have words.

But yeah, Australian Parliament is rowdy. The Labor Party (our Democrats, basically) don't sit there quietly; they voice their opposition. Lots of heckling, jeering, booing and all that when it's appropriate because hell, you've got to voice your protest somehow. You're there to represent your electorate and you do it any way you damn well can. It's not exactly the kind of sanitised forum shrub has become accustomed to, so no wonder he barged in and demanded that Parliament be closed to the public for the FIRST time in Australia's history. Of course, being the pathetic little turd that he is, our conservative Prime Minister was only too happy to mine the shrub's colon a little further and comply.

[Serenity-NOW]

14. Yeah, he doesn't like the public here either

unless they show up with fistfulls of dough for him. I am so miserably dissapointed at how he's ruined our national esteem. Greatest country on Earth, once upon a time. Now every time I go abroad I feel like an unwanted visitor and it's only gonna get worse as the dollar becomes worthless.

[ouija_board]

17. Welcome to our side of the coin

on the worthless dollar thing. ;) Heh. That shouldn't stop you from travelling abroad, though. Is the value of the dollar really used as a yardstick of national worth in the US? If it is, I guess that's another fundamental difference between our societies. Here, we know we'll never be the richest country because we're a small population, isolated in the region, but we still think Australia is a great place to live, regardless.

In any case, I'll say this - anti-American sentiment is almost exclusively directed at the American government and the greater entity of America in my experience. Actual Americans, on a personal basis, most people have no problem with. Hell, we know you didn't vote for Bush either. If you're a decent person (hard to go wrong with a Democrat), we'll take you as that, independent of your nationality, essentially. I can't necessarily speak for the rest of the world but you're welcome in Oz any time. :)

[sventvkg]

25. I Want to Emigrate to Australia if Chimp gets Re-selected...

I LOVE Your country!!! I constantly read up and research about it and dream of emigrating there..I'm over the Plutocracy here in the US..However it would be virtually impossible for me to emigrate because I just do not qualify for a Visa. I feel my only hope it to find a sympathetic Australian woman that would marry me and thus, sponsor me for a visa...You are so incredibly lucky to be Australian!!! I feel it's one of the best countries in the world to be from and your citizens are well liked everywhere. Cheers!!! If Chimp gets in I'll find a way to get there...

Sean

[annagull]

10. You are right, ouija_boardd

funny thing is, most Americans are so uninformed that it is mindboggling. Somehow, the right wing press is able to convince the lower middle class that being in an HMO is different and better than being in gov't sanctioned medicare. Go figure

[blondeatlast]

23. So right--how do we reverse this though?

[blondeatlast]

22. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[iverglas]

27. I don't know whether USAmericans can imagine

... the depth of the hostility that Bush provokes outside the US when he says things like:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/20040120-7.html

America is a nation with a mission, and that mission comes from
our most basic beliefs. We have no desire to dominate, no ambitions
of empire. Our aim is a democratic peace -- a peace founded upon
the dignity and rights of every man and woman. America acts in this
cause with friends and allies at our side, yet we understand our
special calling: This great republic will lead the cause of freedom.

The urge to puke and throw things is almost overwhelming.

Special calling??? Lead??? And the rest of us: chopped liver? adoring but rather dim, complacent followers?

Yeah, well, it can get damned hard to lead when nobody's following. Which is pretty much what happened last March, and is happening in just about every other respect you can imagine. There is not a single thing I can think of that I would want to follow the US on -- not health care or any other social security policy, not the culture of guns, not immigration policy, not tax policy, not anti-drug policy, not the treatment of criminal offenders, not the treatment of any kind of minority group, not foreign policy, not protection of individual freedoms, not nothin'.

In any sense other than the constant threat of the exercise of brute force, whether military or economic, the US is so utterly irrelevant to the rest of us out here that the guffawing reflex pretty much overcomes the gag reflex when we hear things like that, of course.

I mean, we have great compassion for the 43 million USAmericans without health coverage, the people in the US who live in fear of the violence in their neighbourhoods, the people on death rows in US states, the children living in cars, the women unable to access reproductive health services, everyone else in the US who does not enjoy the rights and freedoms and security many of us enjoy. Our laughter at Bush is bitter, for both us and them.

And our governments just go about the business of engaging with the world, through bilateral and multilateral efforts to ... well, as it says in the Inter-American Democratic Charter of the Organization of American States (just one of the international institution that Canada works through to improve the world by encouraging respect for the rule of law and democracy -- and to learn from other countries):
http://www.oas.org/charter/docs/resolution_en.htm

The strengthening of democracy requires transparency, probity,
responsibility, and effectiveness in the exercise of public
authority, respect for social rights, and freedom of the press,
as well as economic and social development.

Obviously the demagogic bluster of a Bush about the rest of the world is designed to divert USAmericans' attention from the fact that he is entirely uncommitted to "strengthening democracy" at home.

Transparency in the exercise of public authority? respect for social rights? economic and social development? Didn't hear much about that would advance any of those goals in the State of the Union.

And abroad? In Iraq, women had had equal rights under civil family law for many years. In Iraq under the US's authority, it appears that women will lose those rights, they will be made subject to a particular misogynistic version of a religious law, with the acquiescence of the US.

Freedom? Democracy? "Dignity and rights of every man and woman"?? Ask an Iraqi woman. Ask a Colombian peasant farmer. Ask anyone whose despotic government the US has ever installed or propped up.

Bitter laughter will be the response, I'm afraid.

.

[izzie]

15. I have said this for years but all I ever get back is this.......

Every one comes here for treatment. I have never thought it was so good for most people but having been under the Navy care for 40 years I felt it was pretty good. It was as good as my father's and mother's who had to pay for all they got as they were self employed. They were in a high income so could pay for the best. When I grew up most people had very bad care as they were just ave. working people. We were a lucky family as my father could send my mother to world class hospitals and doctors in Boston, most were lucky to go to a doctor.Bush had a sister who was ill. Read about that. They took her to special hospitals in NY from Texas. Who could do things like that even today.

[izzie]

16. Send that list on to the men running. May help.

n/t

[radwriter0555]

26. Special cases get GREAT treatment while people like ME wait for SIX WEEKS

for physical therapy for my dislocated knee, from my HMO.

Now my knee is so locked up from NOT getting the PT on time, I'll have to do MORE PT and endure more agonizing pain.

This is on Blue Cross.

[JaySherman]

18. I'm on the Japan National Health Care Plan

I pay around $35 a month for 70% across-the-board medical coverage. My average appointment costs me $15 out of pocket. I get seen promptly and when I need to. The quality of care I've experienced is excellent. The only real complaint I'd have is that for some reason, over-the-counter meds are more expensive, sometimes 2-3 times as much as in the States. Probably something to do with importing and tariffs. But, no one can ever tell me now that socialized medicine doesn't work.

[jonoboy]

19. and the US drug companies are trying to get Australia to drop it

so called free trade talks between the US and Australia mean the drug companies, G.Bush's largest campaign donors want the US government to force Australia to do away with our subsidised drugs..so thats what Bush does..the bidding of private corporations..thats what the WTO is on about..the interests of private corporations.

[izzie]

20. Well I bet these co. have a lot of power.

Do you think they can do that?

[ouija_board]

21. Unbelievable, isn't it?

jonoboy, have you signed the petition against the FTA at http://www.nofta.org yet?

Gotta marvel at the audacity of the US requests. Get rid of our subsidised drug scheme so that US corporations can make more profit. Just unbelievable.

[JHB]

24. He knows what he knows...

...don't confuse the matter with facts ;)

[goddess40]

28. Privatized medical care

Went to my doctor this week. After wrestling with the rules and regulations from my insurance company about what medications they would or would not pay for the doctor said, "I wish the government would just take over health care." I reminded him that the AMA fought universal health coverage because they didn't want the government telling them what to do. Told him now the insurance companies are calling the shots. He agreed.

[Kanary]

29. Did you tell the doc about the medical organization for just that?

There are thousands of drs signed onto the organization that wants universal care, and a one-payer system. The more drs who join, the more powerful it becomes. Drs have an immense amount of power to bring about change, if they would just use it.

I'm really glad you mentioned to him about drs having, in many ways, brought this on themselves. They can now extricate themselves and their patients from this whole mess by having the courage of their convictions to start demanding what should have been done a long time ago.

Kanary

[tom_paine]

30. Just another Lying Half-Truth

If you make over $150,000/year, it has the best health care system in the world.

Which I can see would be "accurate" to the Emperor considering he thinks the rest are subhumans, anyway.

But average it all together, and Imperial Amerika is probably quite low on the list when compared against the Free World to which we no longer really even belong.