Only on Fox: "Poor May Not Be So Poor After All"

[barbaraann]

Friday, January 23, 2004

LOS ANGELES — Homelessness and hunger has increased an average of 16 percent annually for the last 15 years, according to a recent study by the U.S. Conference of Mayors (search), while the Census Bureau (search) has found the number of poor increasing slightly last year, to 35 million.

But while there's no question that some Americans are hungry and homeless and others live in dilapidated housing, a new study suggests the poor aren't so poor.

According to a recent study by the Heritage Foundation (search), 46 percent of the technically "poor" live in their own homes, most with more living space than the average person in Paris, London or Vienna. While 73 percent own at least one car, 30 percent own two or more, and 76 percent have air conditioning. Also, according to the study, 65 percent have a washing machine, 97 percent have a color TV and 78 percent have a DVD player or VCR.
...

http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109386,00.html


Yes, folks, there aren't really poor people in America, only technically "poor" people. All you have to do to solve an economic or social problem in the United States is put quotations around it!!! We can just tell outsourced Americans they are "outsourced," unemployed Amercans they are "unemployed," those without medical care they are "without medical care," etc. Oh, the genius of our compassionate rulers!

(I went to foxnews.com to see if they had the David Kay story and I found this.)

[vi5]

1. Oh, well if the HERITAGE FOUNDATION determined this...

Well then by all means it must be true and totally unbiased.

[Bertha Venation]

2. my thoughts exactly.

:puke:

[trag]

4. I must be rich!!!

Why didn't some one tell me sooner? Dag gone it!! All this time I've been stressed over bills and I had the money all along! Thank you Heritage Foundation for making me a rich man! My dreams have all come true!

[blondeatlast]

19. That's it! Me too! I'm filthy rich--I better quit and sign up at Freep.com

[Fovea]

20. No Trag!

Don't Drink the KoolAide!

And welcome to DU.

[trag]

23. Thank you realpolitik.

Trust me, I wont drink the KoolAide! It gives me gas! *lol*

[Avonrepus]

57. Look how Rightnation reacted to the same story (if u can cope)

http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=27624


Thank god i don't share a country with this lot, and i sympathise with all my trans Atlantic cousins that do. Come to think of it we get these people in the UK too, Damn!

[burrowowl]

67. Welcome to DU Avonrepus

And you seem to be exporting them to the U$. Keep them home!

[Mountainman]

3. Since most of us live paycheck to paycheck, we can be OK one day and poor

the next. And all we owned doesn't go away at once. We sell it or pawn it a bit at at time as overdue bills and hunger set in.

I was unemployed for the last five months. Luckily I found a new well paying job this week. But if my unemployment lasted much longer I could not have held out living as I did. Yes I had a house and two vehicles but you can't eat them you can only give them up and ruin you credit rating as the repo man comes calling.

[Dogmudgeon]

8. 27 months unemployed

I am what used to be called ruined.

I worked my ass off to study computer programming while I was working as a medical tech, then I burned the midnight oil working overtime when I did get a job. Then it all ended -- about six weeks after 9/11/01. Actually, I've had a few short contracts since then, but it's been a pittance. And what do I have to show for all my hard work now?

-- No car
-- No money (I had almost $12k saved up)
-- No health insurance (I have chronic medical problems)
-- Credit is long-gone
-- Living with my mother and grandmother
-- My "successful" friends dropped me
-- No real prospects for female companionship
-- I owe lots of creditors small amounts of money, which they are diligent about collecting
-- My (Republican) township still takes 1% of the little money I do make
-- No immediate prospects for any kind of work I can do

I keep in mind that J.K. Rowland wrote the first Harry Potter book while she was unemployed and receiving public assistance. However, that is England. I'm an officially "able-bodied" American, and as such, I am unable to receive public assistance.

Fortunately, I manage to keep optimistic and looking around for work. It's easier than giving up and making myself miserable.

As offshoring, automation and "increased productivity" continue to improve corporate profits, unemployment will increase. The Golden Age of Predatory Capitalism is about to come to an end. And none too soon for me.

--bkl

[Mountainman]

28. Damn I wish I could help you out for sure. Here is what I can do

It may not be much to you. But I do believe in the power of prayer and positive thinking and in turning your problems over to your higher power.

Now I am more of a pagan than a Christian and I will never really know what god is. I like to think that my higher power is in me and around me and in all that is live on earth and even in intimate things like rocks.

I have always prayed to the gods by just telling them what I want and what I would like to have in my life and asking them for their help in getting it. I don't always get things the way I want the way I want but I do get what I need and in many cases I get what I want.

I prayed for a good paying job with a good company and that I liked it and that it last a long time. So far I got the good paying job and time will tell about the rest.

I do what ever is in front of me to do and trust that god who ever she or he may be will take care of me.

Anyway it works for me.

[Skittles]

34. yeah? Maybe it was just luck

because my prayers, which were NEVER for myself, were NEVER answered. And all those people trapped in the burning towers - none of THEIR prayers or the prayers of their loved ones were answered either.

[petrock2004]

54. wow

yeah... i know exactly what you mean.

it's hard to figure out isn't it. :(

[Skittles]

61. perhaps God is spending too much time answering job hunting prayers

instead of helping stop the war.

[spotbird]

5. What the article says is that the standard for poverty here should be a

third world standard. So much for the American dream. So much for America being part of the "developed world."

If your ribs aren't sticking out and you aren't living in a gutter then you are fine. Medical care is a luxury for the wealthy, as is an adequate nutritious diet, quality education etc. The new standard for the determination of poverty should be how the poorest suffer in sub-Saran Africa.

There is no bottom for these people.

[CastorTroy]

11. I wonder how this squares with the Religious Right

Because the Religious Right has to share a political party with these ghouls I wonder they feel about this. I bet they get into screaming matches at their convention about how this really flies in the face of the Beatitudes and other Jesus stuff. . . Yeah, f***ing right!

[Timefortruth]

14. The religious right has nothing to do with honest Christian philosophy.

It is a guise for greed and selfishness, an excuse to ignore what they know is right.

[blondeatlast]

18. Beatitudes? What the fork is that?

Pat Robertson asked me to ask you . . .

[kitkatrose]

47. The Beatitudes are a section from the Sermont on the Mount.

Here's the text.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake" (Matt 5:3-11 KJV).

[DBoon]

36. This may be their implicit point

To push down the poverty level in the US until it starts to look more like a 3rd world country.

We already have people living on the street in what are in effect shantytowns.

[shanti]

42. that's what my feeling has always been

that they want to make the u.s. a third world country. hell, they're redistributing the wealth by sending "our" jobs overseas. the foreign poor get a little richer, and our middle class become poorer. the gap between the rich and the poor here is ever widening.

[BiggJawn]

41. Exactly. What is "rich" in Bangladesh is "poor" in Atlanta...

But we all don't live in Bangladesh, do we?

"You're living in a place with drafty windows, a $200-a-month heat bill and a leaky water heater? Shit, man, there's people in Bangladesh who would LOVE to have a water heater to mop up after all the time. You a RICH man and you don't know it!"

Sounds like PNAC-speak to me.

What is it with this shifting of America to a Third-World Economy?

[baldguy]

6. Tom the Dancing Bug

http://www.salon.com/comics/boll/2002/12/19/boll/

----------

The idea that the poor aren't REALLY "poor" is a load of bullshit.

[xchrom]

7. the heritage foundation is grotesque

their bias is so self evident as to be laughable -- like that isn't what they were going to conclude when they started the research?

[Nobody]

9. In other words

If you aren't management, you're not worthy of the American dream of a home of your own, the ability to keep cool in the summer - and remember that our climate tends to be hotter than France and Austria and that people die of heatstroke in unairconditioned homes.

The people who own their own homes bought them when they had jobs that could pay for them. How dare they aspire to keeping them!

The people who own their own cars need them to get to the jobs they still have or to get to job interviews. Many metro areas have substandard public transportation and cuts are being made so things won't improve. How dare people be able to get to work!

And oh my! Owning a washer and dryer, that just tears it. Poor people should wash their clothes in the bathtub and hang them on clotheslines outside in 20 below weather. Poor people shouldn't have clean clothes at all!

Yes indeedy, we should all be able to smell a poor person from a mile away because they have to walk everywhere they go, wear dirty clothes, and stink to high heaven because they're sweltering hot in that cardboard box they call home. How dare any poor person masquerade as a respectable middle class person who really is entitled to basic needs.

/rant mode and serious sarcasm

[lastknowngood]

10. so the need to be living in

utter squalor and on the street to be considered poor. Let's see how fast we can become a third world country.

[1monster]

12. Well, Heritage Foundation

"65 percent have a washing machine"

My washing machine broke down last week and I took my laundry to the laundrymat while I tried to decide on whether to try and fix the old machine or buy a new one.

It cost me $20.00 (I didn't count laundry detergent since I use that at home too) to wash and dry the amount of laundry that I normally do twice a week in my home.

If by being really careful, having all my family wear the same clothing two days instead of one, hand-washing as much as possible in the sink, etc., I might be able to cut my wash load in half.

Still, for $20.00 a week or $80.00 a month at a laundrymat, it is much cheaper to buy a washer and dryer... something that could be done for $10 to $15 a month at one of the higher priced department stores...

And just how many of the named assets are still being paid for in monthly insatllments?

[Maeve]

17. Add to that the fact that many poor get ripped off buying appliances

"Rent to own" is much more common among lower-income folk, due to a lack of good credit. And that can mean paying twice as much for the same appliances....

It can also be cheaper to own than rent. I couldn't begin to house my family in anything decent for the price of our mortgage (taxes and insurance included).

As noted, many of these may be "new poor", since the economy has lost 2.5+ MILLION jobs under Dubya's mismanagemanet.

[Mari333]

13. Sooo my sister and her 6 kids that had to scrounge for food

the other day, left with a can of tuna and some noodles, and my bankrupt mother who lent her some money instead of buying medication for herself, isnt a travesty?
and the guy in the small town here who lives in a car for warmth isnt poor? And the guy who begs in front of the Post Office for change isnt poor?
And the temperature is 5 degrees , and people are heating with wood in makeshift stoves in their homes here arent poor, because they cant afford gas bills?
How about the Heritage Foundation assholes? The ones who write this drivel..they are sitting in leatherbound chairs sipping brandy in cozy offices with marble desks , smoking Havanas and making this all up as they sit in 4 star restaurants scarfing down lobster and prime rib..
Blackhearted sons of bitches .
"whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto me"
Jesus.
If there is a Hell, the people at the Heritage Foundation are going there.

[blondeatlast]

16. You just need to speak their language . . .

Your sister and her kids have food, the guy has shelter, the others have heat, the beggar has a job.

Your mom is, well, old, so she doesn't matter.

(Deeply sarcastic here--you know I love you!).

Sick asshole bastards.

[blondeatlast]

15. My admiration on your iron stomach--thanks for keeping us informed,

because I can't tolerate FAUX.

You have my deepest admiration.

[barbaraann]

26. I just made another little visit. (teehee)

Check out the poll about Ben and Jennifer. Most people responded that they DON'T CARE about why their relationship broke up!!!!!

Hey, you stupid boobs at Fox, get a clue--cover some REAL news! Even the dumb dittoheads don't care about worthless celebrity garbage.

[barbaraann]

21. The struggles people are posting about here make me very sad

and very angry and I truly hope we are able to work together to do something about the poverty and near-poverty in this country after we elect a new Democratic President.

My husband and I watched Seabiscuit last night and I recommend it to everyone who needs some hope that we can repair the damage the rich and powerful have done to this country. We need someone like Roosevelt who is not afraid to fight the powerful on behalf of the powerless. I'm not talking about the story about the horse (which was wonderful) but about the background story in the movie that was about the Great Depression and the New Deal.

I've been hungry, homeless, broke, and desperate and I know what it's like to worry about where your child is going to get his or her next meal. I've also tried my best to help others in bad situations. There aren't any easy answers or solutions, just a struggle to figure out what to do and a struggle to do it.

The food pantries should register people to vote.

[Stuckinthebush]

22. Well, those lucky duckies!

Most have more living space than those in Paris.

How nice!

So, poor people, stop your complaining!

[SOS]

56. If this child's

home in Alabama, photographed in 1996, is slightly larger than a Paris apartment, does that mean that the child is no longer in poverty?

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/new2.htm

[barbaraann]

58. Right.

An excellent demonstration of how reality can be twisted by dittoheads.

I think that when a rightwinger looks at a picture like that, they don't feel compassion. They feel anger that that child might ask for some help from society.

[SOS]

59. Another photo

shows a man in the US with a TV. The right-wingers would say he is not poor based on the fact that he has a TV.



btw- John Stossel used this canard from Heritage on ABC about 4 years ago. That was the show where he said Switzerland has a higher crime rate than Detroit.

[solinvictus]

62. Rural Poverty in Alabama....

I'm from Birmingham and used to travel through the Black Belt to my first step-dad's family home. It was like going back a century. There were no jobs then (1978-79), so I can only imagine the effects NAFTA and the like have had on the small manufacturing sector there. Here's a link to a special report on the region from the Birmingham News:
http://www.al.com/specialreport/birminghamnews/?blackbelt.html

The poverty and hopelessness are overwhelming. But, like the Heritage Foundation said, since they may have a 20 year old TV and running water, they're doing just fine.

[prolesunited]

24. I wonder how many times the RWers will point to this study

as proof that we really don't need those pesky social programs. Talk about a race to the bottom! I guess they won't be satisfied until our poor are living in conditions commonly found in third world countries.

What I don't get is the sheer greed. At what point is enough? How can you look at people suffering and not respond? At one of my jobs, they've been fighting for years to renegotiate the union contract. No money, no money, tighten our belts we're told. Then, an investigation shows the top people have walked off with MILLIONS of dollars!

I don't mind people getting rich, but at least pay the people who got you there decently so that they can take care of themselves and their families comfortably.

With my limited means, I do what I can, but if I was a multimillionaire, I would certainly find better use for my money than seeing how much more of it I can amass.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

27. This is why I love the right.

When the right sees an obvious problem, a tragic deviation from the norm, do they do somehing to try to solve the problem? NO, they simply try to redefine the norm.


It's almost dada how they try to bend reality to their own needs....Tristan Tzara would be proud.


The right IS reasonable: they demand the impossible.

[girl gone mad]

29. The premise is..

ludicrous.

Cars and washing machines are a necessity in many parts of the country, and both can be had for relatively cheap, thanks to our overconsumption. So, American homes are larger than European homes - we're a land rich country and that point is completely irrelevant.

DVD players and color TV's are not the issue. Unaffordable health care, college education and grocery bills are the issue. How many of those people buy cheap fast food because they can't afford to eat healthy since they have to make the car payment so they can keep ttheir car to keep their job?

A good color TV can be had for $150. That's one grocery bill for a family of 4 to eat nutritious foods in many places. Selling your color TV or abstaining from buying one is not going to solve anything.

[blondeatlast]

30. Watch your seditious words, young lady . . .

they make perfect sense.

[rman]

31. that's nearly 20 Million *really* poor, many without housing,

and probably very few of all the poor have any kind of insurance.

[morningglory]

32. This was pathetic. I saw it. Also, there is no need to recycle,

there is plenty of room for landfill. DDT is good for you. We are wasting money trying to cure malaria in Africa, all we need to do is have giant convoys of spray trucks spraying DDT all over Africa every evening. The bleeding hearts found that DDT made the birds unable to reproduce, but what do we really need with birds? I was growling at the tv "Birds eat mosquitos, Moran." Our counties have gone belly up with Jeb and Georgie, so they can't afford the mosquito spray truck any more. We were infested with mosquitos last summer till one day gazillions of dragonflies showed up. Here, the old Florida Crackers call dragonflies "skeeter hawks". Fruit flies were everywhere after I put up my composter, and then flocks of hummingbirds showed up. I hadn't seen a hummer on this property since the 50's. We bought this old house after my parents had died. I think my mother had poisoned the property to within an inch of it's life. John Stossel is the worst whore.

[Ripley]

33. You know who they're talking about don't you?

The elderly often live in homes "they own" and drive cars "they own." Forget about the fact that they are 40 year old houses and 20 year old cars with no heat in either.

:mad:

[KayLaw]

35. How can that be?

Are they counting all the homeless people? How can they have TV's?

Oh, well, we lived in Virginia for a couple of years and I remember when a very poor woman won the lottery - about $50,000 or so. A year later the local paper interviewed her and all the money was gone. Where did it go? She had plumbing added to her house, bought a car, and a few other necessities and that was it. There were some very poor folks living in those mountains.

[Poiuyt]

37. Let them eat cake!

[barbaraann]

38. or Ramen noodles.

That's what I always see the poor people buying at the grocery store.

[camero]

40. My thought exactly

They don't remember what happened to Marie Attoinette when she said that.

[Corgigal]

39. 97 percent own a color tv

I'm sorry, I just love this one. SO the new standard on the IRS form is..how many color tv's do you own? Add those values at 1000 dollars a TV and pay on line 15.

[kskiska]

44. I don't think it's possible to have a black & white

Are they even being made anymore?

[Maeve]

46. When was the last time you even saw a B&W set?

Other than a portable 5" or some such...Of course, if it was tvs, they'd be screaming "Do you know how many people in the Third World would love to have that pack of playing cards????" :eyes:

[Pithlet]

43. The people in Paris, London or Vienna...

Don't have to worry about having access to health care.

[camero]

60. They also don't have to worry about housing.

So you don't see 10+ people in the same household. Intergenerational housing seems to be a thing of capitalist nations.

[MisterP]

45. Tom Tomorrow had a toon on this

from '02, I think.

[Cat Atomic]

48. Despicable.

The Heritage Foundation is simply sickening. And Fox News is beyond sickening for broadcasting this shit as if it's news and not the product of a corporatist agenda.

The Heritage Foundation is one of the few groups I could call truly un-American. They do everything they can to deceive the public into supporting policies that undermine their own best interests.

[Selwynn]

49. What I'd like to know is how they even claim to come up with these numbers

... how exactly do you figure out that 78% of "poor" people own x thing?

[JDPhD]

55. It is all from census data.

The numbers are accurate. It is only the interpretation that is questionable. Either you think a family that has a TV, a phone, a car, a house, and a job that is sufficient to maintain these things and put cheap food on the table is poor, or you don't. But the truth is that most poor people in America have those things, and those things would be considered luxuries most places on this planet.

I grew up (in the 60s, 70s, & 80s) in a home with no phone, because we couldn't afford one. I had to walk much of the time because our one old car was broke down. And I never had new clothes. But I never starved or froze, and my mother always reminded me that I was more fortunate than many others in the world. I never thought of myself as a victim. I never thought I was poor.

So, based on my personal experience, I have to agree with this study. There are very, very, very few truly poor people in America, if one has a global perspective.

[htuttle]

50. I think I should pick up some more yarn for Madam Lafarge on the way home

She's going to need it.

[Lorien]

51. So, until the poor are living in camps

covered with flies and waiting hungrily for the rice truck to deliver their handful of sustenance, we shouldn't show any compassion for, nor give any aid to, the poor? "What would Jesus do" again?

[Astarho]

52. Let's break this down, shall we?

According to a recent study by the Heritage Foundation (search), 46 percent of the technically "poor" live in their own homes,

Live in, as in rent? I live in my home which I pay rent for.

most with more living space than the average person in Paris, London or Vienna.

I'm willing to bet most Americans have more living space then the average person in Vienna, Paris, London, or even New York for that matter. They are all large metropolitan areas. American living space compared to Austria, France, or the UK may be another matter.

While 73 percent own at least one car, 30 percent own two or more,

How old are those cars? And how many payments are left on them? How much maintenance do they need? How many people can walk to their jobs?

and 76 percent have air conditioning.

I don't. I have a swamp cooler which IS a neccesity in the Arizona summer, which I have to work outside in anyway. Aren't most houses today built with air conditioners anyway?

Also, according to the study, 65 percent have a washing machine,

Another poster already mentioned the cost of a washing machine vs. the cost of going to the laudromat.

97 percent have a color TV and 78 percent have a DVD player or VCR.

All three items are usually less then $100 God forbid they should have anything to make life a little easier, and escape from their own lives for a little while.

There you have it America, you're not really poor until you look like a third world nation.

[Kitsune]

53. Every time I think that humanity can sink no lower...

...Fox News airs another special.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

63. This is hilarious.

I love how Fox makes it clear that poor people no longer exist in Bush's Wonderful America, by putting the word "poor" in quotes. Ahahahaha.

Just curious if anyone has a link to a Heritage Foundation study claiming that the "rich" aren't really rich at all?

[solinvictus]

64. Poverty and consumer credit....

"According to a recent study by the Heritage Foundation (search), 46 percent of the technically "poor" live in their own homes, most with more living space than the average person in Paris, London or Vienna. While 73 percent own at least one car, 30 percent own two or more, and 76 percent have air conditioning. Also, according to the study, 65 percent have a washing machine, 97 percent have a color TV and 78 percent have a DVD player or VCR. "

Let's honestly evaluate this assertion. Since, in their infinite wisdom, consumer credit companies will give major cards to any organic life form, why is anyone surprised about this? On average, I receive 2-3 high interest, "guaranteed approval" or "pre-approved" offers per week. Now, if you were indeed desperately needing a line of credit, you'd probably take it on the perception that it could temporarily alleveate a problem; such as a car repair, major appliance, medical bill, or even (GASP!) some consumer luxury not allowed by your budget. Here's the stickler: once the card is accepted, it often has a high activation fee, usurious interest rates, high monthly or annual fees, and high late fees to boot. By the time said person finalizes the deal, they can already be several hundred in hock without spending the first dime on the card.

My God! Poor people want a place to live?!?! The cost of rent and utilities can often mean that a family of working poor can not afford basic food staples. So they have a home with running water, but the kids are hungry and because both parents work, they're ineligible for even basic food assistance from a government agency. I'm certain there are kids whose only nutritious meal is a school lunch; unless of course the parents earn too much to even qualify for that meager help. Hunger is growing among the working poor, but at least they have a TV.

This entire report compiled by the Heritage Foundation is absurd. Yes, I agree, the Repukes and even some Democrats want the American middle class reduced to the level of Third World paupers. With our outsourced and downsized economy, the ranks of the working poor are sadly on the rise. Despite the current "conservative" opinion, these people are not lazy nor are all of them unemployed; the downward pressure on wages has made it impossible for them to have a decent standard of living while often working multiple jobs. These people work in such profitable industries as construction, restaurant and hospitality, various call centers, insurance, medical services, and many other fields. In other words, these disdained poor build homes, prepare and serve food, clean the rooms, make reservations, process insurance claims, and provide care for these feudal lords who've determined they have no worth as human beings due to their low income.

[leesa]

65. The old " all blacks are on welfare riding around in Caddies" argument

[thingfish]

66. Right-wing think tanks trot out this crap every couple years.

I was wondering when they were going to strike next. Thanks for the update!