If Massachusetts falls, kiss gay rights good bye :(

[Bush loves Jiang]

If not even Massachusetts can accept same-sex marriage, there is no way the Reich will losse on the issue.

[Adapter44]

1. It will happen

from what I understand they can not possibly amend the state constitution fast enough - even if they wanted to.

The question is - will civil unions put in place? Or will it be true marriage?

If it is true marriage expect massive amounts of federal cases on the matter in the courts soon after. I suspect if the constitution is followed, other states will be required the recognize them.

[foreigncorrespondent]

3. It will be a true CIVIL marriage...

...which basically means state sanctioned marriage, not religious sanctioned marriage.

[foreigncorrespondent]

2. Mass won't fail.

It is unconstitutional and the Mass. supreme court recognizes that, even if the government jerks don't.

What I am more worried about is Bush* getting back in for another four years and the bigoted FMA passes. If that happens, then we can kiss gay rights goodbye, and start looking at the concentration camps they are gonna send us to.

[LostInTheMaise]

4. I must take issue with this

"kiss gay rights goodbye, and start looking at the concentration camps they are gonna send us to."

This is the first I have heard of concentration camps for gays. Where did this concern originate and what evidence is there to back it up?

I can't even begin to believe gay people would be sent to concentration camps no matter what party is in control.

[foreigncorrespondent]

5. Hmmm!

Well the introduction of the FMA shows us, not only does the fascist regime that is currently in power wants the status of gay and lesbian citizens to be second class, but that there is also no separation between church and state anymore. I say that for the simple reason, civil marriage issues are states rights, not federal government rights.

Many with in the fundamentalist Christian religion wants to see gay and lesbian citizens put to death for their homosexuality, but if not death, then lock us away for life. If you don't believe me, try researching out Christian Reconstructionism and the Center for National Policy. I have done a lot of research on both and I can tell you as a gay woman, I am truly frightened. Not so much for myself (I am an Australian), but for my partner (an American citizen living in the United States still), and my queer brothers and sisters in the United States.

And because people have let Bush* get away with bringing religion to the White House, we have a lot of be fearful of.

If you search way back to a couple of years ago in the DU archives you will also learn about concentration camps that were being set up in the United States.

These people only believe in a rich, straight, white male, they don't care about anyone else. The FMA is just the beginning of the attack on gays in the United States.

[Sapphocrat]

6. Hello, LostInTheMaise...

"Take issue"? I'll tell you where this "concern originated":

First and foremost, with the very real incarceration of gay men in WWII Nazi concentration camps. Need links?

Second -- and more pertinent to the situation at hand -- with the very real "sentiments" of innumerable contemporary right-wing Nazis who have openly stated the desire to quarantine, tattoo, and -- yes -- put to death lesbians and gay men in the United States.

E.g.:

"(Debunked 'researcher' Paul Cameron) views AIDS as being such a large threat to 'innocents' that he has proposed nationwide testing for HIV and the forcible quarantine of all those testing positive, either by confinement to their homes or in regional detention centers."
-- Mark E. Pietrzyk, News-Telegraph, March 10, 1995

"Lesbian love, sodomy are viewed by God as being detestable and abominable.... Civil magistrates are to put people to death who practice these things."
-- Christian radio talk show host Rich Agozino, Crosstalk, KBRT-AM 740

"Those who practice homosexuality should swiftly be put to death by the government. God emphatically condemns the practice of exchanging proper gender characteristics among men and women. God justly calls for the death penalty for anyone who practices homosexuality."
-- Citizens for the Ten Commandments

"The State carries the power of the sword, that is, the power to prohibit conduct with physical penalties, such as confinement and even execution. It must use that power to prevent the subversion of children toward this lifestyle, to not encourage a criminal lifestyle."
-- Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore

"When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death. ... And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him."
-- Gary North

"The Bible doesn't say that homosexuals should be executed. What it says is this: 'If two men lie together like a man and a woman lie together, they are to be put to death.'"
-- Gary DeMar, January 4, 1991, "Sound Off" radio program on Superstation WSB, Atlanta, Georgia

Oh, gosh, I'm sorry -- I went all off-track there and got into proscribed death for homos, rather than mere incarceration.

But I think you get my point. If you need more references, I will be more than happy to dig them up for you.

[carlvs]

7. Turnaround is fair play

Someone should remine these folks that guns are quite easily available in this country, and they do not care about the sexual orientation of the person that would use them...

[Sapphocrat]

8. Ah, but, carlvs...

...that's what differentiates human from mere human barbarian. Self-defense, no question for me. But "pre-emptive defense" -- that just cannot be.

Btw, welcome to DU! :hi: