Everytime I hear someone in the Media spin the Powell presentation to the UN saying "nobody knew, everyone thought there was WMD's, the CIA, The British, all the intelligence agencys, Clinton, Gore, etc..." I think back to the day I was reading DU. We were rather certain that the proof being presented was questionable, if not outright lies.
Looking back thru the DU archives, I found the day that Powell went to the UN and presented the proof the United States had against Iraq. I remember sitting in front of my pc reading the posts, knowing that Powell was lying and manipulating information to deceive the American public into backing an unjust war and the media was giving him a free pass.
As DUers listened in real time to Powell's speech, many of us were on to the deception. DUers had been debunking the reasons for going to war all along. Reading back over some of the posts, it was shocking just how right we were. I also forgot that when Powell was delivering his presentation, a real problem that the administration should have been focusing on instead, North Korea, was activating its nuclear reactor. Here's a sampling of posts which characterized the discussion at the time.
This is RIDICULOUS!!!
Is this it? A system of hiding things? They're going to kill thousands of Iraqis for THIS???
That tape was pathetic
"modified vehicle"...now Powell is explaining what it all means, adding in all sorts of words that the tape doesn't say.
Its on CBC radio too
"We can't tell you everything we know..."
They are now playing a tape of 2 supposedly Iraqi officers that say that they "evacuated everything" and are graphically explaining how they got rid of evidence.
REALLY believable. What a crock.
If * thinks Iraq is a threat to US
then I got a Colorado beachfront property to sell him.
"from our sources" (which we won't tell you about) "we KNOW"
Their proof that the inspectors are being spied on
is that Iraqis visited sites in the days before UN visits?
He's showing ANTHRAX now???
This is just an amateurish scaremongering campaign. Seasoned diplomats won't take kindly to this shit at all.
North Korea Nuclear Site reactivated as Powell speaks
just saw breaking news on bbc online...
<
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2729717.stm> every reason stated for going to war with Iraq would equally apply to North Korea... no chance of an attack though, they actually have the weapons, Iraq well, i'm not convinced yet...
Why is is talking about the anthrax Senate attack?
It didn't come from Iraq! "This is evidence, not conjecture..."
And Iraq did NOT "FORCE" out the inspectors--LIE!!!That's a big leap of logic.
No citing "sources" they have on scientists
False death certificate
Some ordered to stay home
Some under house arrest
Systematic effort ...pattern is not just a lack of cooperation....
OK, so if you "know" they were moving things (from pictures of trucks)
then why didn't you use the same technology to follow the damn trucks?
"These are not assertions, these are facts..."
We had pictures of trucks picking up these suspected WMDs??
Do we not know where the trucks went? Could we not send the inspectors to those locations??
"I believe this conclusion is undeniable and irrefutable"
I believe you're talking with your hat, Colon!
If anyone's hanging themselves, the US is.
These photos date back to MAY 2002. WHY didn't they forward this intel to Blix? Were they scared that Saddam would have the satellite executed?
Hellooooooo, hellooooooo, helloooooo,
I'm listening with an open mind. But this rhetoric is definitely out of school and won't fly, simply put, this is all horseshit. Aluminum tubes B.S. is way out of line.
WTF? Hussein COULD have built a nuke in 1996?
We need to bomb Bagdad back to the stone age because Hussein COULD have built a nuke six years ago but didn't?
My brain hurts.
Ho hum...back to the aluminum cylinders again...
How sad.
OH NO!!! NOT THE ALUMINUM TUBES AGAIN !!!????
Tubes again...
Powell says they can be used for centrifuge use.
Opinions differ on these.
David Albright of ISIS said they CAN'T BE USED...
and he also said that Khadir Hamsa was talking shit.
The aluminum tubes issue is dead, Colin!
I'm embarrassed for Powell
His presentation makes him seem like an over-eager student presenting a shoddy term paper to a bored classroom of cynical classmates. Or a high-school drama student grossly over-acting while the instructor rolls her eyes.If THIS is a reason to go to war, God help us.
Look who's accusing someone
Of having a "government-controlled press."
There is no connection according to Peter Bergen
Peter Bergen the terrorism expert CNN often used before said on CBC live this morning unequivocally that there is NO CONNECTION between Al Qaeda and Saddam....He said if there were it would have to mean that 1000's of reliable sources were lying Maybe that's why I haven't seen him on CNN for some time???
We know he's bad
that isn't the point.
There are a lot of baddies leading countries
right now. Starting a war with each one
leads the world to hell.
If as an intelligent and powerful country we
can't think of other ways to contain him
or weaken his ability to buy enriched uranium,
then we have no intelligence.
I'm sorry, even if there are al Queda living in Bagdad
That sure doesn't mean Hussein is hooked up with them.
Using that logic we should have invaded Alabama when that terrorist training center was uncovered there - - and Florida, when we found out that some of the 9/11 hijackers took flight training in Jebland.
Hidden stores of chemical and bio weapons. According to Powell Iraq has beaucoup litres & litres & tons & tons of bio and chemical agents stowed away. Powell demonstrates how a pinch of this and a drop of that can kill so many .He goes on to say they are still producing these agents in mobile units.
Overkill wouldn't you say. If so little can do so much why on earth would the Iraqis find it necessary to continue to produce these agents. Why, if we have the documentation of trucks present at bio/chemical installations, why weren't the destinations of those trucks moving the equipment being monitored also ? I got a kick of his statement that some of the WMD were hidden in palm trees.
The audio presentation was a dismal failure. Powell found it necessary to dramatize and add words & his personal interpretations to the proported Iraqi audio. Reality TV.
Surprised that hard computer hard drives were replaced ! Never heard of such a thing.
And of course the TUBES !
Most likely the unnamed 'sources of information' comes from disgruntled Iraqi dissidents or the famous Massoud.
Sorry I'm not convince we should bomb the hell out of Iraq if some of these things are actually true.
FOX / MSNBC talked over Chinese delegate
Just posted this in the Media forum
Powell finishes his speech and Faux and MSNBC have their talking heads talk over the Chinese delegate, knowing he's going to disagree. The British delegate comes on and they shut up and go back to the UN.
I can believe it. They'll probably cut away after the UK speaks.
Simply because I don't think a lot of the UN Security Council people were convinced it was worth blowing people up.
Of course, like I said in the other thread (part 2 I think), Powell sold it well, to the average American.
China basically said that Iraq must be allowed to respond.
That the inspections have only been going on a few months. And somewhat implied that they want clear evidence, and not outright hearsay. Innocent until proven guilty, right? If the US really wants to catch them, give the inspectors information with regard to our spy satellites.
I'd wager we wouldn't do that, for fear our suspicions turn out wrong.
______________________________________________________________________
During the same speech, Over at Free Republic, comments were gung ho for the War. They were so convinced that they were right, they were blinded to arguments otherwise and bought Powell's presentation hook, line, and sinker. Here's a sampling of posts that characterized their discussion during Powell's presentation to the UN.
______________________________________________________________________
"I cannot tell you everything we know..." He's is going to protect their sources!
going to link Iraq with terrorism. Where's Benjamin Netanyahu. He's been saying this since the early 1980s.
Powell: Some have risked their lives to help uncover what Saddam is hiding.
He is going to play a tape from Nov. 26 the day before inspections resumed.
Tape playing now.
This breaking News just in - North Korea restared its Nuke Facility! Now back to our regular program!
OH my... this is good. - the actual recording!
"I AM WORRIED THAT YOU ALL HAVE SOMETHING LEFT!!!" They said it!
OMG!! GOT CAUGHT WITH THEIR HANDS IN THE COOKIE JAR!!!
They Said they Evacuated Everything?!!
They have them dead to rights.
"We evacuated everything!"
Notice they did NOT say they got rid of it!
"We evacuated it to make sure it was not around when the inspectors come."
Smoldering.
Policy of evasion and deception that goes back 12 years.
(Side note: remember Mr. Popularity, Scott Ritter, and his "Iraq doesn't have WMD" mantra?)
This sort of worries me..I don't like other nations knowing how good our spy stuff is...:(
There was all sorts of debate, I believe, over what to show and what not to show. Must be some pretty scary stuff in there that we won't see here if this is what they decided to declassify.
Time to go in and get this over with.
BTW, Screw the French.
Holy toledo!
Powell is giving it to them chapter and verse.
Powell says every statement he makes today is backed up wth proof!
U guys seem to have this well in hand, I think I am gonna go to DU for a good laugh. Shall I come back with a report?
JFK
Still have a low opinion of NSA?
Powell: I am presenting solid evidence, solid sources.
It's not conclusions, but facts. Now being backed up.
There are three people standing in the back of the room behind Powell. They won't stop moving. They are distracting the viewer from Powell. I think it might be intentional. I've never seen anyone fidget so much while standing and listening.
"We evacuated everything!" Thst one statement alone should convince them all. This is NOT the best stuff we have .. you can bet they have better stuff then this .. Bush and Powell would not give out our best sources
Powell says who took the hard drives? Are we to inspect every home to find documents in order to satisfy this council?
Powell says sources say they are moving WMD.
Powell says while the UN was debating last fall, Iraq was moving missles and hiding them.
Hidden in large groves of palm trees and were to be moved every 1 to 4 weeks.
Here comes the photos!
Powell coming close to calling the inspectors dupes.
The question I hope he answers is are they WILLING dupes?
No matter what is said by Powell here, the peaceniks at all cost will not be satisfied.
Of course not. By this afternoon the talking point will be "why shouldn't Iraq have these weapons, we have them, should we go to war on ourselves?"
I hate peaceniks.
The Hollywood Maroons will STILL say, that Bush is the illegimate president, selected not elected dontcha know, he is a cowboy too quick on the trigger, he is going to war to steal the Iraqi oil, and avenge his father's honor, and leading us down a path straight to hell. Do ya think that about sums it up???
They are really hemming and hawing on excuses over at DU leftist/anti Bush/anti American website. But nothing of substance. Just petty hit and run comments and whining. Just crying like a bunch of babies. They have been made to look really foolish today. What morons. I almost feel sorry for them this a.m.
I have chills over these active chemical bunkers. Showing decontamination vehicles. Showing inspectors arriving and the bunkers are clean upon their arrival. Showed on map 4 bunkers outlined in red that are active.
now Powell saying the cargo trucks seen at over 30 sites going in before inspections with large cargo trucks and crans to move ballistice missil components
Here's what Powell didn't say. We know where he moved the stuff.
BINGO!!
Where are the ones who say Bush is dumb?
The ENTIRE anti-war Left is being shredded to bits as we speak.
Robert Fisk! Hit the bottle, sir.
talking bioweapons--3 points---took unscom 4 years to pry admission from Iraq that they had bios
when Iraq finally admitted it the quantities were found to be vast they declared 8500 liters---unscum thinks could be 25,000 liters. it took 1 teaspoon to bring US senate to a close in 2001 . Iraq has never accounted for these bio weapons that everybody knows they have. This is evidence not conjecture.
I'm waiting for that.......it may be at the end. (Like I'd know....LOL)
I wonder how much of this stuff Powell shared before this speech?
I'd say Bush has proven his point -- the UN is a paper tiger.
Oh, here comes some eye witness accounts of WMD.
"No smoking gun" my lily-white rear-*end*...
holding up the small vial of "anthrax" was good -- look at this amount --this amount made ??? how many ?? people ill, had to go to the hospital -- Saddam has thousands and thousands of teaspoonsfull, and has not shown us where ONE is.
The "peaceniks" are IGNORANT, ARROGANT liberals
I want to know why we haven't done anything about this before now! This is outrageous!
Clinton was president.
what's with the peaceniks?
Just that. Saddam could invade America and they would be against war. They should simply be dismissed as irrelevant to the conversation.
Go Powell Go!
Keep swinging!
Any of those peaceniks out there who think we still shouldnt go into Iraq need a nice cold glass of STFU because its now painfully obvious to EVERYONE what is happening over there.
Go Powell Go!!
I am just waiting for someone to argue back that , 'Well, there's your evidence right there that Saddam is not lying and in compliance with the UN-- he has removed all the bad stuff now, so what is the problem??'!
What he's said today is ugly -- but it will get uglier -- be prepared -- I have already heard reports of Iraq "freezing" dead children/babies to use for propaganda -- they will scatter these bodies where ever a bomb goes astray -- we could have higher military casualties than the first Gulf War -- our media & the foriegn press will hammer us oer things like these
trying to say everybody thinks Security council is VERRRRY important ,china welcomes US move to provide this evidence to UN, they want various parties to hand over evidence to unmovic and IAEA--to help them with their inspections (gag) . inspections going on for over 2 months---it is there view they aren't in position to draw conclusion and should continue and we should support that (gag)
China's response---this is a biggie--- omg---they support more inspections??
China wants source info, of course. We can't name names, of course. The leaders of the world will have to decide who they trust: Saddam, or the USA!
What is the deal with China??
China slept thru Powell presentation, they want more inspections. If it wasn't so SAD I'd LOL.
Britt Hume -- indesputed info. Already historical record, plus intercepted messages. Compelling picture for reasonable people.
Constitutes a very powerfull case.
Oh Cheese and Crackers -- ABC already spinning -- "this is old news, they've heard it before" -- a Middle Eastern guy saying there was no real connectionmadebetween Iraq and Al Quaeda
"It's Put UP OR Shut Up time for the UN now. "
OH yeah! They have phone calls, satellite photes, human testimony, al quada connections.. In my mind, al quada wasn't the only terrorist behind 9/11.. Me thinks Iraq assisted..
I am so proud of GW and his entire admin. CP just delivered a slam dunk. It's a relief to have adults in charge now!
Congratulations, Gen. Powell.
Congratulations, President Bush and your whole administration.
I'm blown away. Didn't think it would be this good.
When was it that the bombing starts?
So I guess, in summary... They have chemical WMD. They have biological WMD. They are trying really hard to have nuclear WMD. They have been testing and building delivery systems. They have been actively hiding all of this from UN inspectors. They have been supplying terrorists with weapons, support, cash, etc. They have been meeting with Al Qaeda leaders. It would seem to me that the only response "the left" of any country can have is that we manufactured this evidence. I am willing to bet that will be the shrill chorus
Oh my GOD, my radio has some poli sci professor from Gonzaga and he remains "unconvinced." What a moron. He slammed W and said he respects Powell much more, as do the American people. He calls for containment.
Networks are discussing Powell. Feinstein said she hates to say it, but that Powell in fact made a very good case that further inspections are basically useless due to evidence of their subterfuge. She states the UN must enforce their resolution or they in fact will be irrelevant.
Here's what Sen. Biden said: "If I had this evidence before a jury that was an unbiased jury, I could get a conviction."
To get a criminal conviction, you need to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In foreign affairs, it's often necessary to operate with much less certainty than that. But Powell's speech may have met the proof beyond a reasonable doubt standard.
"We're going to have to kill half the people in the world before this is over. There are too many of them and they will never stop as long as they live, so they'll have to be killed. It's them or us."
200 years from now, I want their children's children's children's children
to cower and cringe in fear whenever they hear the sounds of jet engines overhead
because their legends tell of fire from the sky.
I want them to hide in dark caves and holes in the earth,
shivering with terror whenever they hear the roar of diesel engines
because the tales of their ancestors talk about metal monsters
crawling over the earth, spitting death and destruction.
I want their mothers to be able to admonish them with
"If you don't behave, the Pale Destroyers will come for you",
and that will be enough to reduce them to quivering obesience.
I want the annihilation to be so complete that their mythology
will tell them of the day of judgment when the stern gods from across the sea
.. the powerful 'Mericans .. destroyed their forefathers' wickedness.
/end
Cool, huh?
_______________________________________________________________________
To sum up:
They fell for it when Powell held up the Anthrax, linking it to the Attack on the Senate.
They fell for the missing hard drives.
They fell for the WMD's being hidden in Palm Trees.
They praised the NSA's ability to ferret out this information.
They were convinced the anti-war crowd didn't know what the hell we were talking about.
We all know that every reason given for marching to war was false, and that the administration was deceiving the world and the American public as to the real reasons for going to war, and in fact had planned to invade Iraq days after the Bush adminstration took office. I wonder if anyone at Free Republic ,or for that matter, anyone that was gung-ho for war has learned a lesson here. The Bush administration clearly manipulated the public, and their base, by using fear and by implying Iraq was connected to 911 (and Al Queda) and that if we didn't act NOW, a mushroom cloud on the horizon might be imminent (yes, even though he didn't use the word "imminent"). They didn't do it alone however, they had complicity from our government controlled right wing media.
Hope you all enjoyed looking back on history with me, and how great DU is and was. I've learned so much since I found DU, and it has kept me sane in these insane times, knowing I'm not alone.
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