Propaganda creates reality: Why Bush will win.

[Solomon]

My rationality is suffering from disconnect. My angst is intolerable. Friends are making me angry. And this is why.

My brain tells me that Bush got less votes than Al Gore in 2000. My brain tells me that there is nothing he has done which would make previous democratic voters switch over to his side. My brain tells me that not only has he done nothing that would make a democratic voters switch, but he HAS done things that would make some republican voters switch. My brain tells me that this means certain defeat for Bush.

BUT. My television is telling me that there is no one who can beat him. My newspapers are telling me that there is no one who can beat him. And worse or all, MY FRIENDS, are telling me that none of the current crop of democratic candidates can beat him. These (my friends) are tried and true democrats, mind you, who, like everybody else, has been suckered by the dark force.

I can see it as though it has already happened. No one will question a Bush victory because we are all convinced by the propaganda, that he will win. Can someone please please explain to me how this can happen to us? In the words of Vince Lombardi: "What the hell is going on out there"? What is it about the propaganda that makes us doubt our common sense and believe a lie? I can't possibly see Bush getting more votes than in 2000, if anything, my common sense tells me he will get less than in 2000. But somehow, he's invincible.

My friends will never know HOW PISSED OFF they make me, when they call and speculate as to who can beat him. From my perspective, anybody can beat him. It makes me angry to know that I will get a lot of "told you so's" by democrats. Just imagine it. Whoever the democratic nominee is, they'll be a ton of democrats blaming the loss on the choice of nominee. It's surreal that democrats will not question the election while republicans will wonder how the hell they stole it again. Crazy world we live in. Even the people who hate Bush assume he's going to win.

[Lone_Wolf]

1. This is what I came up with

Premise:

CNBC is owned by GE which has received hundreds of billions of dollars in Federal contracts. Like Halliburton, GE has made money off of the Iraq invasion. They want this gravy train to continue so they are prepared to spend a lot of money to help George W. Bush get back in office.

The problem:

Federal campaign finance reform laws make it very difficult for GE to give as much money as they are prepared to give to Bush.

Solution:

Get around the election finance laws.

How?

Create a "show" that will spew Republican talking points. It doesn't matter if the show has low ratings and doesn't bring in advertising revenue because GE will simply subsidize it in order to keep its Conservative message on the air. In essence, the new show is nothing more than a slick infomercial meant to propagandize its audience with Conservative talking points. Dennis Miller's new show is a perfect example.

[dennis4868]

23. Wow....

I never thought about that....great point!

[Solomon]

34. I totally

agree.

[Lone_Wolf]

44. Did you ever wonder why...

Did you ever wonder why MSNBC keeps 'Hardball' and 'Scarborough Country' on despite their dismal ratings?

[NeoConsSuck]

41. And you hit the nail on the head...

why do any serious thinking yourself? It's so time consuming and tiring. We'll let corporate media do it for us. They know better than we do anyway. Look how pretty that announcer is.

Besides, we have better things to do, like watch Survivor, play XBox games, and hey, the Super Bowl is this Sunday!

Americans deserve what they get

[Lone_Wolf]

59. If you think about it

Their message helps all Republicans. So creating a show to spew Conservative talking points is probably the most cost effective way to get their message out. It is probably cheaper and easier than giving money to each Republican running for an office.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

2. One sentence

"Dewey defeats Truman"
Buck up, man! It can be done!

[magatte]

6. this was in a day where news (and hence propaganda) travelled very slowly

Much, MUCH, easier to brainwash a nation, nowadays....

[Solomon]

9. fertilize your post suggests that votes will actually be

counted in '04.

[Karenina]

40. As we say in D'englisch...

And THAT is the problem.

[0007]

55. The difference is that Truman had the drop on J. Edgar Hoover

The only drop any nominee will have will be in the machine that count the votes.
The 'Help America Vote Act' won't be strong enough to overcome.

We're so screwed!

[JailForBush]

3. Art imitating life?

The title of your post sure does a lot to help beat Bush - NOT.

As a realist, I think there's a very good chance that Bush will steal the White House again. But it isn't finished until it's over.

In that spirit, I would have chosen a title like, "Why Bush MAY Win Again," not "Bush WILL win."

[devinsgram]

4. You need to be more optimistic

and get new friends.

[K-W]

5. You are buying into propaganda that isnt true

they want you to think it is inevitable. It isnt. The same voting attitude that got Bush elected makes his reelection not a garuntee. People who vote do follow campaigns to at least some extent and do make a decision between two options. By your logic, Bush senior should have won, he didnt. Bush jr is probably in a much less enviable position electability wise.

[TheDebbieDee]

7. I feel exactly the same way.......

about always hearing that "Bush can't be beat" and I am convinced that the public will be inundated with this mantra until the election.

That way, the Republicans can manipulate the voting machines into tallying up another win by an even greater margin, perhaps with the appearance of giving W. a mandate to continue to "starve the beast", enact the draft and wage pre-emptive wars in Syria and North Korea.

[Solomon]

10. There you go. This is what I'm talking about.

By all logic, this election should be a landslide against Bush. But people are acting like it will be a landslide for Bush.

[Dark Star]

8. Turnaround Alert!

Even CNN and MSNBC have been touting the fact that Kerry v. Bush is 49-46 at this early stage.

Don't worry - be happy.


(BTW: lose the "friends"!)

[rogerashton]

11. Remember the newsweek poll --

Bush LOSING against Kerry by two points just after the SOTU address -- I'm still not certain Bush will run, if he continues to lose support.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4049942/

Remember: the American media never distinguishes approved opinion from news, and bosses and Republicans are just as subject to wishful thinking as we Demos are.

[Smirnoff]

12. NO!

Not so optimistic are we? No, but I totally know what you're saying. Americans are so brainwashed it's disgusting. I was rooting for Gore in 2000, (too young to vote then) but when the war started I was brainwashed. I didn't understand how people could possibly be against the WAR ON TERROR. We were getting those horrible, building bombing people from Iraq who had Nuclear weapons in their back pockets! Finally I got a head on my shoulders and saw through those crazy repukes! I'm very discouraged because if I can be brainwashed so can everyone else....
:cry:

[glitch]

13. If you can wake up so can everyone else

welcome to DU!

[Iverson]

18. ah, you give me hope

Your critical faculties kicked in. If you can be reasonable, so can others.

Welcome to DU.

:toast:

[dennis4868]

24. Welcome to DU!

Our job is too talk to the people who are brainwashed and help them see the light.....we have to do it in a way where we dont seem so angry (even though we really are)!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. The only important question is

what will you be doing to make sure that Bush doesn't get re-elected?

Have you contributed to or volunteered for the candidate of your choice? Have you written letters to the editor and opinion pieces for your local paper? Will you be getting involved in your local Dem party? Will you be going door-to-door in your neighborhood? Will you be participating in GOTV activities? Will you be giving people rides to the polls? Will you be doing volunteer exit polling to check against the official figures? Have you urged others to do the same?

You don't have to do all of these things, but if every DUer did SOME of these things, Bush's position would be much less secure.

This "oh, Bush will win again, what's the use" line sounds like a bunch of coffeeshop liberals sitting around acting blase and trying to prove their superiority to the uninformed masses.

[citizen snips]

15. NO, NO.

It is too late to give up now.

[jab105]

52. It's too IMPORTANT to give up now...

n/t

That is why DU is so great, I check Latest Breaking News twice a day and I know most of the things that are going on in the world before they do...on Saturday, my friends brother came over (he was a Bushie in 2000, on the fence now) and was saying that the Danish found chemical weapons in Iraq, so it proves that it was right...

Well, I flip on my computer, flip right to the search page on DU, type in Danish, and boom...there are 2 news articles, and I can say, see, here is proof, once agaqin those were not chemical weapons...and that got us into a good discussion about the so-called "liberal media" (my ass!)...he was actually pretty impressed which was cool:) Doesn't seem like Bush has him this time (and I am in FLORIDA!!)

We cant give up, its just too important...

[Karenina]

58. Have those who were "scrubbed"

and prevented from voting over THREE YEARS AGO in Florida had their right to vote restored?

[Solomon]

16. I guess what I'm really trying to say is

I don't know if votes will really be counted. I mean the propaganda isn't going to change the way people vote so why all the effort? Makes me feel that the only reason for it is to keep people from questioning another theft.

[marie123]

17. well if it makes

you feel better, the SOB no longer has my vote. I cant begin to tell you my disappointment in all of this, but I can tell you I am not alone in my thinking with other freepers. They are just afraid to come out of the closet. After all, in kind of sucks being very wrong

Hang on, more of us will come over

[Iverson]

19. common ground

As little common ground as there might be between the typical DU-er and the typical Freeper, surely neither cohort feels surprise at being misled or disappointed by a politician.

Hell, we might even have some common ground on loving our children and not wanting to see the country go down the toilet!

:toast:

[marie123]

20. cheers

my friend

:-)

[rogerashton]

33. We all need to get away from the stereotyped thinking

that makes "divide and rule" so successful.

[zbdent]

21. I get some comfort from the fact that a media-created "popular" W

was unable to walk away with a landslide victory over a media-created "wooden robot", and had to resort to the legal chicanery that the media said Gore would resort to.

[chookie]

22. The Poker Playing Chimp

Bush has got to be one of the biggest gamblers in world history. Everything he has done, he has done boldly. He assumes he will get away with everything he attempts.

He has gambled everything on the notion that people will go along with The Big Lie. He knows that his achievements have been so dastardly that no rational person will want to believe that they have been carried out in the light of day on the world's stage.

Here's the ticket to winning back the White House: the Dem candidate has got to realize that Bush is only a great poker player. He is the supreme bluffer. All along, he has been holding an empty hand -- but no one has called upon him to show his cards. Exposing him will take the same sort of tactics that are used to expose card sharks.

Watch for this: part of Rove's strategy is to have his trained monkey just smile while the Dem Candidate calmly outlines Bush's record of achievements. In simply reciting the bare facts of Bush's administration, the Dem Candidate will appear to be insane -- because no one will want to believe that all this stuff has really been happening in our country in our lifetime. Bush is counting on people not being able to believe that this stuff is true -- that Bush's conduct in office has been insane.

We are witnessing an utter disconnect of perceptions of reality. There are a lot of people, like us, who have been calling these things by their right names. On the other hand, there are people who believe that some sort of religious mythology is being played out, people who buy into an authoritarian Cult of Personality, who dismiss the facts and who want to see their Fiction being revealed in current events. Then there are the people who aren't exactly paying attenntion: The confusion a lot of people feel when confronting the headlines of the day, I believe, is deliberate -- to always keep them off-balance, so they can't think straight and accept their own critical judgement. Bush's MO has always been "Who do you believe -- me, or your own eyes?"

Solomon -- 2004 is going to see a big showdown. What is going to happen is anyone's guess. I intend to fight. I am prepared for what is going to be the most bizarre, devious and vicious election year in American history, and I hope you are too.

We'll have to see how things play out. As Molly Ivins has observed -- the great American divide is no longer between Democrat and Republican, or liberal and conservative, but Sane and Insane.

*IF* we fail to wrest the Presidency from these bastards -- all hope is not lost -- we must continue to fight. History has shown us that if Presidents that have significant even if not majority opposition in the country are re-elected -- they end up being impeached in their second term. I bet Mr Rove knows that too -- and they've been already planning for it.

A lot of the popular scenarios simply have not panned out. And hopefully, the "Bush can't lose" assumption will be shown to be yet another bold lie forced on us.

[Solomon]

26. You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what

I see. 2004 will be a watershed in the history of america. The big showdown. I believe more people will be involved in the political process than ever before. Another reason why I believe that Bush cannot win, unless of course, they steal it by blackbox voting.

The poker analogy is right, but not just for Bush. I see the poker analogy as being valid about america itself in terms of world politics. Gone is the day when the world believed something simply because america said it. We have never been called out to prove anything we say, until now. And we really don't like it do we?

A prime example was when we demanded that the Taliban hand over Bin Laden. Do you remember their response? They said they would do it, if we gave them evidence that Bin Laden was involved. We refused to do that didn't we. I wonder why?

Now the whole world has caught on to the game. The world is demanding proof of what we say, and they are not being fooled when we give them bullshit. The only people being fooled are ignorant arrogant americans.

[Sterling]

56. Yes the fix is in. If more of us realized this we MIGHT

Be able to do something about it. However I don't see the critical mass needed to change anything. I just witnessed many DUers take part in the fabricated attacks on Dean that will ultimately by turned on whoever is nominated.

Now it looks as though we have a Skull and bones election in 2004 and only some DUers understand what is wrong with this picture. I feel like a spectator of a train wreck. I am no longer under the illusion that there is hope for our country politically speaking.


I will now most likely get by on what humor I can find amidst the irony of our folly as a people and a nation.

[Solomon]

60. Shhhhh!

Don't mention Skull & Bones. We're told it means nothing you know.
:spank:

[Edge]

25. Here's what you do...

don't listen to the news. Simple. :)

I don't listen to a damn word the media tells me. It's all lies now.

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. It was lies in 2000, before and beyond.

I don't listen and if by some chance I happen to catch a snippet of news, I call horsesh*t immediately. No matter how much the sTalking heads try to spin their particular brand of BS, they can't make me believe what I KNOW are lies. I choose not too believe that the majority of the people in this Country fall for the propaganda as well. I am hoping the Nov election will bear that out. However, I do believe that Bu$hco* will stop at nothing to steal the election again. That's the only way Bush* will "win" in '04.

[Silverhair]

27. Here is what your brain is leaving out.

Your statement: My brain tells me that there is nothing he has done which would make previous democratic voters switch over to his side.

Brutal fact: Democrats (Since '72) are perceived as being weak on national security. Republicans are preceived as "America, the strongest, first"

Democrats are Allan Alda, Republicans are John Wayne. (OK, I don't know if Alda is actually a Democrat and Morrison (JW's real name.) has been dead for over 20 years, but you get the idea.)

That's why Reagan was able to pound Carter, helped defeat Mondale and why Duke had to ride that tank and look stupid. That's why McGovern took such a beating. After the end of the cold war, people felt like it was safe to have a Democrat for POTUS again, so Clinton was able to be elected. Now, since 9-11, people are again very concerned about national security.

It is true that Bush hasn't done much, but the fact that he IS a Republican, and his opponent WILL be an anti-war Democrat, will be enough to move many of the center voters into the Republican camp.

Unless we can counter the soft on defense image, our goose is cooked. Kerry or Clark may be able to pull it off. I can't see any of the others doing it.

[Solomon]

30. This is what you are leaving out.

Are you telling me that democratic voters are going to switch to Bush just because of the National Security issue? I don't believe that. I can see pissed off republicans choosing to stay with Bush because of national security, but I don't see democrats changing because of it. In fact, I can see democrats switching because they buy the bullshit about born again christian, but I don't see us switching because of national security.

[Silverhair]

31. You are forgetting about the swing voters.

Swing voters are a reality, not a fiction. There really really are people who vote Rep one time, Dem the next, and then Rep again, and who split their tickets to vote for some Dems & some Reps. Just because somebody voted for Gore in '00, does not make them a committed, hard core, yellow dog Democrat. Some of them were swingers.

Sorry if that fact distrubs you, but swing voters known to exist, and make up about 20% of the voters.

[never cry wolf]

28. Check this out

Someone posted it on a thread yesterday, it explains alot!

Framing the issues: UC Berkeley professor George Lakoff tells how conservatives use language to dominate politics

By Bonnie Azab Powell, NewsCenter | 27 October 2003

BERKELEY – With Republicans controlling the Senate, the House, and the White House and enjoying a large margin of victory for California Governor-elect Arnold Schwarzenegger, it's clear that the Democratic Party is in crisis. George Lakoff, a UC Berkeley professor of linguistics and cognitive science, thinks he knows why. Conservatives have spent decades defining their ideas, carefully choosing the language with which to present them, and building an infrastructure to communicate them, says Lakoff.

The work has paid off: by dictating the terms of national debate, conservatives have put progressives firmly on the defensive.

In 2000 Lakoff and seven other faculty members from Berkeley and UC Davis joined together to found the Rockridge Institute, one of the few progressive think tanks in existence in the U.S. The institute offers its expertise and research on a nonpartisan basis to help progressives understand how best to get their messages across. The Richard & Rhoda Goldman Distinguished Professor in the College of Letters & Science, Lakoff is the author of "Moral Politics: How Liberals and Conservatives Think," first published in 1997 and reissued in 2002, as well as several other books on how language affects our lives. He is taking a sabbatical this year to write three books — none about politics — and to work on several Rockridge Institute research projects.

In a long conversation over coffee at the Free Speech Movement Café, he told the NewsCenter's Bonnie Azab Powell why the Democrats "just don't get it," why Schwarzenegger won the recall election, and why conservatives will continue to define the issues up for debate for the foreseeable future.
much more....

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml

[DrBB]

29. It's called the 3rd Party Principle

Sometimes just being able to properly label the thing can give you leverage over it.

The 3rd Pary Principle is a phenomenon widely exploited in public relations campaigns.

The classic illustration of the phenomenon was provided by the old debate over sex and violence on TV. When surveyed, most people said they thought too much violence, not too much sex, was the problem on TV. When asked "which do you think most OTHER people think is the problem?" the answer was "too much sex" by a broad margin. So sex, not violence, ends up being more closely restricted on broadcast television.

Hence the principle:

If I want to change behavior or influence an outcome in a population, I don't care what you think, I care what you think OTHER people think.

There is no single way to fight back at this, but naming the beast can deprive it of some power. This "inevitability" game is one Rove has refined to a high degree, but calling it that when you confront it, letting other people know what's going on, and doing what you can to counter it directly--writing LTTEs, talking up the Dems, letting people know there are others out there who aren't taken in--can help. Even participating in those scientifically meaningless online polls can help counter this subliminal effect.

[info being]

37. Right...and that's the way most Democrats vote...

Trying to guess who everyone else would guess is the right person who will be accepted by the "average Joe."

The trouble is, TV and media defines the notion of the "average Joe." And that is one way in which they get us to vote for candidates, and support positions, that are not in our own best interest.

True change will only come if people vote for and stand for what they actually want. Judging by Kucinich's numbers, I don't see that happening.

[tom_paine]

32. Imperial Amerika is subject to the Greatest Propganda Machine

ever devised by human beings.

Puts Hitler and Stalin TO SHAME, but does it much more subtly, owing to the 60 years of "progress" in the psychomanipulative sciences.

I'm not sure there is anything we can do about it. The Party-Loyal Busbevik Sub-Media is only growing more powerful and extending the extent towards which it can parasitize the few legtiimate news organizations remaining.

Further, Bushevik Loyalists have infiltrated every sector of the remaining Mainstream Media and engineered sea changes in mores.

Further, the FCC regulations designed so that Totalitarian Media could not rise in Free America have been parasitized and destroyed.

So has Free Amerika, and it's no coincidence.

[info being]

36. I agree. The best brainwashing ever accomplished in human history.

Like they say, America is the best.

[Karenina]

42. Naaa Duuu, t_p!!!

:hi: Your post is a "hit" with a "bullet." I usually begin my Kneipe converations by saying something like, "*corp will make Hitler's reign look like a Boy Scout weekend outing." Patiently let 'em go "ping-ping" for awhile, while they express all the ingrained emotional responses (this can take HOURS but my mom, may she rest in peace, ALWAYS told me patience is a virtue) and then present the FACTS of our current situation. Unlike the U.S. it's NORMAL to discuss politics and beat a topic (NOT people) to a pulp. It's considered good form and if you can provide solid backup, it's NORMAL that the Volk to whom you speak check it out for themselves. Thanks to all the wonderful folks on DU, I CAN provide it. !!!WE HERE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT ALREADY!!! IT SUCKS!!! And becomes a no-brainer SO FAST.

[info being]

35. Most people want to be normal / accepted. TV propaganda works because...

it defines what "normalcy" is. When your thoughts and behavior falls outside of what is shown in the media, you start to feel like an outcast. Only a small percentage of us are strong enough to choose this path.

[Solomon]

38. To be honest with you. I had to get therapy to deal with the

disconnect. I guess I'm not as strong as some. It started when the supreme court said don't count the votes and kept crescendoing until I broke down to see if it was me or not. Thank god my therapist agreed (what else could she do) that I see reality. The solution was hard to take - "pay no attention to reality, it's detrimental to your health".

[info being]

39. I know...it took me years to be "ok" with myself in spite of...

my worldview. It isn't natural to be an outcast...but when it comes to truth vs. social acceptance I really don't have a choice. I guess truth is my religion...but most people accept lies as religion.

There are times that I felt that I was crazy...but I find that the less TV I watch the better. Therapy is a good option.

At any rate...I'm sure we can all appreciate why we have a hard time convincing people to join our movement. Yes, the truth shall set you free...but ignorance is bliss.

[Karenina]

43. To paraphrase Krishnamurti

Being well-adjusted in a sick world is NOT a sign of good health.

[Generic Other]

47. I would have said "Pay no attention to the bill" if I were you!

Good grief. DUers could give you better advice than that. For heaven's sake the next time you need a healthy outlet for the disconnect you are experiencing, plan and execute an underground act of subversion. Every act of defiance no matter how small is an act of courage. Post anti-Bush signs or literature. Write letters. Bug your congressman. Get someone else to help you. Become an underground movement. One honest citizen activist is worth twenty of Bush's paid lackeys.

Fight the power!

[eridani]

45. Only if we play his game

We can't win the fear game, and we can't win the Triumph of the Will imagery slamming into peoples' limbic systems game either. The only hope is to play a different game--take on issues that affect peoples' lives and personally connect with as many people as possible.

[Snappy]

46. Great Post

I have felt a disconnect for a long time with the mainstream. It bothered me because I couldn't reconcile what the mainstream mindset was in conflict with my own perceptions. It was like I was living in an alter reality. What helped was the Net. Over the Net I started realizing that there are millions of others that are experiencing what I was.

The other day I was watching a program about the Patriot Movement. These folk have a vision of reality that I cannot relate to yet it seems certain that they truely believe in their perceptions. It must be that way with the Aryian Nation folk, Black Muslims and many other groups. They are way outside the mainstream of perception, as well.

Seems that America has been like this for a long time but now even more fractured than ever. There seems to be a true polarization now like never before. I'm writing this right now so I am hoping what I am thinking makes sense. Ya think so?

48. I hope you all read my research site...

Indeed, economic propaganda...

Dan

[Solomon]

49. Thanx for the link

Dan. Good stuff.

[Th1onein]

50. Think about this:

Yes, of course, you are hearing propaganda. All this "electable" shit and "Bush is unbeatable" crap. We know it's bullshit. We can go to a coffee shop three times a week and say loud enough for someone to overhear that Bush must be voted out of the White House this year and have several people chime in with the same sentiments. This is not an unusual event, but the press makes it seem unusual, because they have repeated the same matra over and over again, until our subconscious accepts it.

But ask yourself this: Do they not read the same polls you and I are reading? They know that Bush is imminently beatable. Hell, his numbers are in the "about to be impeached" range. BUT, the reason you continue to hear the propaganda is because they are WORRIED. They have to push propaganda, because they know thatBush is in trouble.

Take cheer from that.

[proud patriot]

51. The Emperor Has No Clothes

He's as naked as a jay bird .

[Astarho]

53. the thing about mass mind control

it amazed me how easy it really is. Two observations:

- The news has an aura of respectability so people take what it says as "truth".

- The system is self-sustaining. Some who resist will eventually be beaten down (as you can probably testify).


Hang in there

[0007]

54. Fabulous piece Solomon

My thoughts are of the same.

[leesa]

57. They are creating the illusion of popularity so people will accept the

theft again. It's worked in 2000, 2002 and with the Governator 'election' in California.

[stopthegop]

62. Governator 'election'

do you have info that the recall election was rigged?