"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" -- Conservative or Liberal statement?

[fleetus]

Taking a political survey I had to say whether or not I agreed with this statement.

I said I strongly disagreed, because it sounded like something the U.S. would have said during the Cold War to justify helping Usama Bin Laden in Afghanistan or during the Iran/Iraq war to justify helping Saddam Hussein in Iraq. In my opinion, the U.S. looks like hypocrites thanks to our actions then and now, so I said I disagreed with the statement.

But later I was thinking about something my friend was telling me. He works for the ACLU and was hired specifically to fight the Patriot Act in California. He was telling me one of his ideas was to target conservative audiences in his campaign, because he thinks they would be very opposed to the Patriot Act if they knew the truth. To me it seemed like a good strategy, but looking back on it, it seems like he's joining forces with the republicans to fight a common enemy. So maybe it's not just a phrase for conservatives after all?

So, which way did my answer to the question skew my political orientation on that survey? I ended up pretty far left on the results, but there was still room for "improvement." The survey calculated my score automatically, so I don't know how my answers affected the outcome.

[Rich Hunt]

1. it's a bad idea

It's a bad idea that can lead to all sorts of trouble : blowback.

Your ACLU guy is just standing up for everyone's rights, and perhaps this is also a good tool for educating people about the right vis-a-vis civil liberties. It's not the same thing as 'the enemy of my enemy'.

I wouldn't say it's 'liberal' or 'conservative', just dishonest.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Can't remember theexact phrase or author, might have been Sclessinger

who said: If today's enemy is tomorrow's friend, then by what measure do we really calculate the forces of good and evil?

Working with people on a common issue does NOT necessarily imply friendship but cooperation.

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend. They are simply the enemy of my enemy and with force frrom both sides may my enemy fold.

[fleetus]

8. A good point.

Working with people on a common issue does NOT necessarily imply friendship but cooperation.

When I asked my ACLU friend if he agreed with the statement (since it seemed to me he was following it), he said he disagreed with the statement and suggested a new statement "The enemy of my enemy is my ally." Kind of like what you said about the cooperation vice friendship.

But now I'm wondering about my original example... was the U.S. "friends" with those guys or just "allies." Even if we were just allies with them, it doesn't excuse our actions (in my opinion). So maybe the cooperation arguement doesn't hold either.

(man, this is turning into a philosophy nightmare. my head is going to explode) :crazy:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Ally and friend are synonomous so I disagree

As far as the analogy of the muhajadeen in Afghanistan, that is a perfect example of why I think the statement is false but there is a lot more to that story as well..America dropped the ball after the USSR had worn themselves out...America has a habit of making deals as with the Kurds in Iraq and then breaking them...not to blame America first but it DOES impune our credibility.

I can share a goal with an enemy and temporarily cooperate...as with the ACLU example...but once THAT goal is complete...unless we have some common bond...all bets are off.

I too have worked both sides of the aisle in Sacramento regarding labor law....I am VERY clear that while cooperation is the key to negotiation...I would NOT fool myself into believing those on the opposite side of the aisle are my allies...they are a tool (sorry that's cold) if you will to meet a specific end.

[fleetus]

14. In defense of my friend's statement...

Ally is a country or person joined with another for a common purpose. I think ally is more synonymous to "sharing a goal with an enemy and temporarily cooperate" as you described than "friend" as I described in the original post. Anyway, all I'm trying to say is I think my friend would agree with what you are saying and that is why he changed it to ally from friend.

Also, it's cool to hear you worked for labor issues in Sacramento. The same guy I'm talking about worked for better treatment of California's strawberry pickers back when we were in H.S. I find California politics very interesting because they always seem on the cutting edge (one way or the other).

[lcordero]

3. neither

It a saying that lacks common sense. If one slimebag is my enemy, and another slimebag is the enemy of that other slime bag, then neither slimebag is my friend. People are judged by the company that they keep.

[ret5hd]

4. your first examples...

(Usama and Saddam)
involved "us" doing something ugly to get something we wanted.

your second example (conservatives)
involves us doing something good to get others to vote with us.

very different situations, don't you think? no comparison.

[fleetus]

6. I wouldn't say "no comparison."

Because I got the feeling he'd have to hide some of his beliefs while talking to the conservatives to avoid being tuned-out. Sort of like how you hear there might be pro-life democrats who are pro-choice to the voters.

But overall I agree with you that it's not an apples to apples comparison. When I asked the ACLU friend if he agreed with the statement, he said that he agrees the similar statement, "The enemy of my enemy is my ally."

[John BigBootay]

5. I think there can be a legitimate practical use--

for this philosphy. But I would not help or "befriend" anyone that I thought was a bad or evil person merely to further my personal goals. If I needed something from a bad person, I would let them know if they chose to help me, they should not expect reciprocation UNLESS they changed their ways.

[HawkerHurricane]

7. A measure of desperation

In a all out war, say WW2, when you believe you are fighting for survival, then 'an enemy of my enemy is my friend' (see Churchill and Stalin: two men who hated each other but hated Hitler more).

It really comes to the question of 'how much must you compromise?'.

It is a statement of 'realpolitic'. Equal to the old maxim "The British Empire has no permanent allies, only permanent interests".

[TahitiNut]

9. Neither ... it's a question of Authoritarian vs. Libertarian

The "survey" you were taking was probably akin to the Political Compass. To the degree you answer 'agree' with that, the further along the "Authoritarian" axis you go, imho

[fleetus]

10. Ohhhhhhh...

Yes, it was the political compass! And yes I think I was slightly farther on the Libertarian axis than the Authoritarian one(although kind of near 0 if I remember correctly)! I totally forgot about the x-y thing, probably since I was nearer to 0 on the y axis.

I just remember being glad I was closer to Gandhi than Hitler.

Thanks for the help! I really think you are right on!

[Terwilliger]

16. how so?

Whether or not you view friends (or enemies) as enemies or friends doesn't really speak to whether or not you're authoritarian, does it?

I figured it was a difference in social ideals.

[Hekate]

11. Just a flat-out bad idea

Making common cause across party lines is one thing, but choosing "enemies" like that leads to some really bad decisions.

The saying has been around a long, long time. When I was a kid my mother told me the Irish had used it to justify supporting Nazi Germany because the Nazis were at war with England, the hereditary enemy of the Irish. We are of Irish descent, and she was ashamed to have to say that, but I never forgot the example. (I owe my liberal instincts to my mom.)

I think it's quite a different matter for the ACLU to join with the Cato Institute in opposition to the USA-PATRIOT Act. In that instance, the ACLU is not supporting everything the Institute says or does, but only speaking out together on this one issue that poses a threat to us all.

Hekate

"But why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many,
what day it's going to happen, and how many this or what do you
suppose? Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my
beautiful mind on something like that?" ~Barbara Bush

"I guess the 'nation's grandma' isn't the grandma of those her son sends into harm's way." ~Hekate

ARLINGTON WEST, SANTA BARBARA CALIF.
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Default.htm
click on the large photo of AW to go here:
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Arlington_west_121003.htm
Scroll down the page for all the photos...

[yellowcanine]

13. A Corallory is " He may be a SOB but he is our SOB

I believe that may have been FDR talking about the original Samoza in Nicarauga (sp?).

[Terwilliger]

15. Conservative

Liberals are not about enemies.