18 months in Afghanistan...

[Shananigans]

Yup...you heard me. I just got an email from a college friend telling me he is headed to Afghanistan for an 18 month tour. I can't believe it. I just don't even know how to react. My friend is in the reserves and I totally appreciate him supporting our country, but at the same time I totally disagree with us sending all these people over there. *sigh*

What are your thoughts?

[HEyHEY]

1. That nation needs to be stabilized

I'm not saying it's up to the west, but let's face it. If we pulled out it'd be chaos.

[ConsAreLiars]

3. "If we pulled out it'd be chaos."

"Poor backward folks just can't take care of themselves."
"It is for their own good."
"They are brutes incapable of self rule."
So say the imperialists and slaveholders and sweatshop operators.

US/CIA intervention gave real power to fundie fanaticism and warlordism.
The idea that the presence of western occupation forces is "stabilizing" anything is ludicrous. The only thing they do is protect the potentate in Kabul, while the stresses and tensions intensify, and launch random attacks on civilian populations in villages and towns outside that city.

[Robbien]

4. Are you saying there is nothing good there that we are accomplishing?

If we pulled out, would the situation get better?

[GreyV]

6. accomplishing?

What have US troops accomplished so far, aside from killing uncounted thousands? What? Opium production in 2002 was 18 times higher than in the previous year, 3400 tons that is. Figures for 2003 are even higher. The small amount of urban infrastructure that had survived the decade long soviet assault and decade long civil war, was destroyed by our own assault. Al-Qaeda on the run? Nope, they just moved to Pakistan.

[HEyHEY]

9. Sorry that they couldn't just say allakazam and turn it into paradise

This kind of stuff takes ALOT of time.

[Robbien]

10. So, aside from the potentates in Kabul

there would be no difference in conditions in Afghanistan if we left?

[HEyHEY]

7. It's called civil war

Why the hell does everyone on this board take a qoute like "If we pulled out it'd be chaos" and turn it into something far worse than what is meant.

Yes we can go back ages and see U.S. fumbling with that whole region...but facts are facts, if we pulled out right now, nothing there would improve.

[ender]

14. gotta tell you something about afghanistan buddy...

it has *always* been the way that you described. always.

from the silk road days, through the USSR and USA occupations, it has always been a totally, completely insane, barbaric place.

and there is absolutely zero chance of being able to reform the country.

first, teh geography makes it nearly impossible to have a strong central government. second, the extremist militant islam thinger is *so* deeply ingrained, that you would have to literally kill all of them in order to rid the nation of it.

the only time this country stops fighting an ongoing civil war is to unite and fight the occupiers.

[HEyHEY]

15. You obviously know nothing about Afghanistan

In the 60s and early 70s it was a huge destination for hippies and was very progressive. It was also considered one of the most safe and friendliest nations in the middle East.

I actually have a friend there now working to set up a radio station....even she says "Don't believe they hype" and in general it is okay. - RIght now anyway, we can't let another civil war break out there, we owe it to the innocents there.

[Qanisqineq]

2. EIGHTEEN????????

What happened to 12 month deployments? Are they crazy? 18 months?

[Taeger]

5. Even Vietnam

Even folks who went to Vietnam got to go home after 12 months.

We have a serious problem when our president can't complete his "weekend warrior" tour in the national guard. Yet he expects American GIs to go on extended tours in WAR ZONES.

Lets calculate, 1 weekend a month and 2 week a year is 2x12+14=36. 36 days on an annual guard tour. But served about 4 years including his absent time
36 days x 4 years = 142 days *approximate

So Bush served 142 days of his commitment which ultimately ducked out of to work on a Senate campaign and go to business school. Yet he is asking servicemen to do 500 days service in a war zone.

Is this not hypocrisy at its best???????

--------------------------------------
from www.awolbush.com

Bush Service Time Line
May 28, 1968: Bush enlists as an Airman Basic in the 147th Fighter-Interceptor Group, Ellington Air Force Base, Houston, and is selected to attend pilot training.

July 12, 1968: A three-member board of officers decides that Bush should get a direct commission as a second lieutenant after competing airman's basic training.

July 14 to Aug. 25, 1968: Bush attends six weeks of basic training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas.

Sept. 4, 1968: Bush is commissioned a second lieutenant and takes an 8-week leave to work on a Senate campaign in Florida.

Nov. 25, 1968 to Nov. 28, 1969: Bush attends and graduates from flight school at Moody Air Force Base, Georgia. (UTP Course #P-V4A-A Moody AFB, Ga. 53 weeks November 1969)

January 1,1970 147th changes from doing Alerts to training F-102 pilots.

December 1969 to June 27, 1970: Bush trains full-time to be an F-102 pilot at Ellington Air Force Base.

Febuary 1970 Bush attends Preint Pilot Training (T-33 ANG112501 5 weeks )

June 1970 his records are not clear his computer records show RGRAD NAV TNG but his Discharge shows F102 Intcp Pilot Training (F102 ANG1125D 16 weeks). His Military Biography shows: Professional Military Education: Basic Military Training, Undergraduate Pilot Training and nothing else.

Here is his total Service

July 1970 to April 16, 1972: Bush, as a certified fighter pilot, attends frequent drills and alerts at Ellington.

Computer records show last Physical as May 1971. Which also shows him as CR MEM ON FS (crew member on flight service) not PILOT.

During his fifth year as a guardsman, Bush's records show no sign he appeared for duty.

May 24, 1972: Bush, who has moved to Alabama to work on a US Senate race, gets permission to serve with a reserve unit in Alabama. But headquarters decided Bush must serve with a more active unit.

Sept. 5, 1972: Bush is granted permission to do his Guard duty at the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery. But Bush's record shows no evidence he did the duty, and the unit commander says he never showed up.

November 1972 to April 30, 1973: Bush returns to Houston, but apparently not to his Air Force unit.

May 2, 1973: The two lieutenant colonels in charge of Bush's unit in Houston cannot rate him for the prior 12 months, saying he has not been at the unit in that period.

May to July 1973: Bush, after special orders are issued for him to report for duty, logs 36 days of duty.

July 30, 1973: His last day in uniform, according to his records.

Oct. 1, 1973: A month after Bush starts at Harvard Business School, he is formally discharged from the Texas Air National Guard -- eight months before his six-year term expires.

[Qanisqineq]

11. I thought it was 12 months max

My husband is only doing 11 months in Iraq. If he has to go back (as they are predicting) and do something like 18 months...
I picture a mass desertion if they are going to force these lengths of deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq.

[0007]

8. I do too!

[greatauntoftriplets]

12. My nephew is going also -- but they are telling him 365 days.

He is in the Illinois National Guard. They have not given him a departure date, and his unit is undergoing accelerated training before deployment.

[Papa]

13. Just tell him to take care of himself

Tell him to be safe. He does not have a choice at this point.

[Bandit]

16. They have good opium there.

:shrug: