Thank you Michael Moore!

[abcdan]

Thanks for calling Bush a deserter—which flustered the media—and ultimately brought back Bush's military record (or lack of one) as an issue!

[madmax]

1. Is there a link to awol's military documents?

[For PaisAn]

3. Check awolbush.com

or democrats.com. I beleive they have scans of documents at those sites.

[madmax]

10. Thanks

I heard bush this morning talking about he would always defend 'Merica. But, I know I saw one of his military documents either on the net or in a book where he answered:

Volunteer for VietNam

Do Not volunteer for VietNam X

So much for defending 'Merica if his ass is on the line.

[Dennis Quaranta]

2. The Desertion Issue

The desertion issue wasn't brought up last time because Gore's own record wasn't terrific. He claimed he'd been under fire when he really hadn't.

[okieinpain]

5. I never heard that one about gore, just that he had a guard.

and that he was placed in the journalism detail.

[Dennis Quaranta]

6. Just Heard it This Morning

Not sure who said it, it was on "Democracy Now". Maybe Juan Gonzalez. Wheoever it was, he said Gore had been caught in an overstatement.

[Bandit]

9. That is just plain BS

How many journalist have been killed in Iraq? Do you know? Vietnam was much more of a war than Iraq. Even a journalist was not safe there because virtually every single city and town in South Vietnam came under mortor and rocket attack from time to time. Gore had a very good record to run on and did.

[CatWoman]

12. and then there's Ernie Pyle

For many journalists, Ernest Taylor Pyle, an Indiana native better known as "Ernie," continues to be an icon of excellence decades after his death at the hands of a Japanese machine-gunner in World War II. For the last ten years of his life he wrote feature columns six times a week, primarily for Scripps-Howard newspapers. As his fame increased during the war, other newspapers, including weekly ones, published Pyle's work.



http://www.journalism.indiana.edu/news/erniepyle/

[Dennis Quaranta]

18. Source

The source is Walter Robinson of the Boston Globe, who was on Democracy Now this morning. He sounded believable to me.

Michael Moore called him a deserter. Democratic National Committee Chairman Terrence McAuliffe called him AWOL. The controversy over a one-year gap in President Bush's military service has come under fresh scrutiny in recent weeks. We speak with the Boston Globe's Walter Robinson who first exposed the story in 2000 when he revealed that Bush's National Guard records indicate he failed to perform a year of service from 1972 to 1973.

http://www.democracynow.org/

[DemoTex]

13. Gore was in the 'Nam. Gore was in harm's way.

Gore went into the field. Gore spent a night in a foxhole at Khe Sahn, near the Laotian border and the DMZ. Gore got his ticket punched .. honestly and honorably. Bu$h did not.


http://www.snopes.com/military/goreviet.htm

[Bandit]

19. God that picture brings back memories

That could have just as easily been my picture. My back still aches from that rucksack. I needed help to stand up with that thing on my back.

[TahitiNut]

25. Damned straight he did!

It totally disgusts me how the Jody's slander and demean his service. While it's not unusual for a gathering of Vietnam Vets (only) to poke at one another about being 'REMFs' and 'pogues' ... that's a privilege reserved to those who got their in-country tickets punched. Jody is neither invited nor welcome. (Jody can just STFU, afaic.)

[EV1Ltimm]

14. but here's something gore could have brought up...

"Hey, look! That's me in Viet Nam!"

*'s only rebuttal would be a picture of himself in front of an f-102 during his stint protecting the alamo from charlie.

[Terwilliger]

29. it was lack of media interest

A new article by Eric Boehlert in Salon suggests that the NY Times effectively shut-down the AWOL issue in 2000.

As to why the Democrats do anything... :shrug:

[Taeger]

4. Moore in Michigan

I hope that Moore will be stumping hard for Clark in his native Michigan. This SHOULD count for something.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. yep

worked like a charm didn't it?

[ewagner]

8. Agree

I think Moore's hyperbolic utterance has done the party a GREAT favor.

Better yet, Ed Gillespie snapped up the bait like a hungry bass. The more they protest the more detail will be exposed in the main-stream media.

Thanks Michael Moore. This issue IS relavent!

[agitpropagent9]

11. would suggest

that anyone really preparing to take the fight to bush on this issue be familiar with -- and be able to refute -- this:

http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=131

[KensPen]

15. I am sure Bush would have gone to Nam

If they needed him for a Black Ops, ultra secure Turkey Delivery....

[Solomon]

16. Nice try but that is sooooo weak.

[CatWoman]

20. and I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with this:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/05/national_guard/

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_02_01.html#002526

http://www.hereinreality.com/commander.html

http://www2.observer.com/observer/pages/conason.asp

http://philcarter.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_philcarter_archive.html#107591570333210255

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4013.shtml

[put out]

21. What is this site?

There is nothing defending W.'s military record to refute. No one can say he was actually doing what he pledged to do. A bunch of right-wing apologists, that's all.

[DemoTex]

22. How odd ...

"Two friends said ..." "Bush spokesman Bartlett said .."

Rather disingenuous innuendo, too, regarding Democrats.com and Michael Moore.

[TahitiNut]

24. Well, it's a "fact" that friends and a spokesman made claims.

Interestingly, FactCheck comes to no conclusion regarding Junior's fulfillment of his service obligation. While it really is a relatively non-partisan site, it seems to be somewhat premature in addressing this without reliance on partisan spin.

I'm convinced that Junior (and his puppeteers) are satisfied to use the mere contradiction of the slight hyperbole as a propagandistic firewall to keep people from fully discovering that Junior was doing court-ordered community service in Houston and was (possibly?) protected from a dishonorable discharge for a drug conviction. I'd be willing to take odds that Junior got a suspension from duty and a General Discharge for that conviction (and plea bargain?). (I think the DD-214's were stopped from showing this about that time.)

I'd also be willing take odds that (Major) James R. Bath was involved in this (both the drugs and the coverup) and became a Cabal Insider for his 'assistance' and collaboration during those years.

[Terwilliger]

30. sorry, anything that says "factcheck" and "PUH-LEEZ"...

is crap

Bush wasn't a deserter, but he wasn't someone the Republicans would normally laud as a bastion of military glory, either.

[dennis4868]

17. I think....

you should really be thanking General Clark. When Moore called Bush a Deserter it was not getting any attention until Jennings interrogated Clark about it. Clark did not condemn Moore for his statements and the story all of a sudden had legs. Clark's numbers went down and the media started to ignore him after that but he did the job.

Thank yoiu General Clark. It is not the 1st time you took a bullet for your country.

[Terwilliger]

31. Sorry, that's just crap

Why would the issue have come up at all if Moore didn't say it?

Clark wouldn't have said it. Dean wouldn't have said it. In fact, no Democrat would have touched the idea that Bush might be a deserter (much less as someone who was, in fact, AWOL)

Michael Moore brought the issue up and made it happen. Thanks, Mike!!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

40. Clark didn't back down, when he was given the chance

and that is in keeping with his public statements about Bush. You can say many things about Clark, but he has *never* had a problem telling it like it is about Bush and the rest.

For that, and for Clark being one of the few military officers to publically say it's okay to criticize the president in a time of war (when it has been illegal to many times in our history), I think Clark deserves a lot of credit.

I'm voting for Kucinich of course :)

[adriennel]

23. technically

BushJr was not a deserter, he went AWOL. I wish Moore had checked his facts and I wanted to strangle Jennings when he said there was no proof of Bush's "sketchy" military record.

Michael Moore may originally be from Michigan, but sorry, he's a Park Avenue guy now. big difference.

[abcdan]

26. That's the point!

The fact that Moore exaggerated was the point! If Moore said, "Bush did not have a stellar military career" or "Bush's military record doesn't stack up to Clark's", it wouldn't have gotten the attention.

I prefer accuracy, but since the national news media could not care less about facts, it took Moore's statement to stir the pot and ultimately get people talking about Bush's military record again. The media certainly had plenty of time during the 2000 election to delve into this issue, but barely scratched its surface, and instead focused on more important things like Al Gore's wardrobe.

By the way, the only difference between desertion and AWOL is desertion is leaving duty with the intention not to return and AWOL is leaving duty with the intention of returning. Who knows what Bush's intention was when he left?

[Terwilliger]

33. Jennings did nothing, other than act the media-whore-fool that he is

Moore brought it up, and just like a lapdog media should, they started barking.

[Grins]

27. Nope. You're wrong.

After 30 days an AWOL is automatically classified as a deserter. FBI is notified, local police, next of kin, etc. Bush was gone for far more than 30 days.

If Bush was in the Army tank battalion (active, not Guard) I was in during the same time period (1971-73), Bush would be toast. As an officer, he's be in Leavenworth. Almost nothing would be a bad as an officer going AWOL leading to desertion. NOTHING!

[Terwilliger]

32. a park avenue guy?

Like Dean and Kerry?

How do you know what Moore is all about. So, the fact that he's out there fighting for the poor and disenfranchised is simply obliterated by the fact that he makes money?

[sonias]

28. I'll chime in and thank Michael Moore

We finally have the media following this story, and it took Michael Moore to bring it up. Deserter, AWOL, shirked his responsibilities, cushy guard spot, senator's son favoritism. Call it what you want. They can argue all the nuances they want. The fact of the matter is, his past service does matter because he's the one wrapping himself around the flag. His records should not be secret. If his service was honorable and without question, why won't he release his records like Poppy made Clinton do?

Sonia

[brainwashed_youth]

34. me 2

You better thank God everyday for Michael Moore. Because of him, the AWOL issue is starting to get the attention it deserves. Terriwilger, you may not like Michael Moore, but you better be damn grateful that there is someone on our side who will bring up the stuff no one wants to talk about.

[Terwilliger]

39. ummm....huh?

I'm one of the few who constantly defends Moore. I was BIG TIME proud of the guy for saying what he said at the Oscars last year.

[spindoctor]

35. I didn't think he was going to pull it off

But I admit I was wrong.
I thoroughly enjoy falling asleep and waking up to discussions about whether Bush was AWOL or not.
This is going to stick with voters.

[Myra]

36. Ditto! And thank you General Clark for having the courage to say

Moore had every right to voice his opinion.

And no thanks whatsoever to John ("over the top") Kerry.
Someday I'll write his bio: Profiles in Cowardice.

[Name removed]

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[Terwilliger]

38. You stick to your guns

and keep believing in what you know.

Columbia will just have to figure these things out for himself.

[Name removed]

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