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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:05 PM
Original message
What exactly changes if a democrat wins in November?
We're not going to win back the House and Senate.

The House is gerry-mandered. There aren't more than a dozen or two races that could be considered competitive.

We are defending 5 southern democratic senate seats. We're not taking back the Senate.

Will anything get done other than our president vetoing and vetoing the crap the congress puts on his table?
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Edwards4President Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. No more Pickerings, for one
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. reply
Will anything get done other than our president vetoing and vetoing the crap the congress puts on his table?

THAT would be a significant improvement over today. In any event, presidents wield much more influence over foreign policy, which is particularly important today. Also, if a president is popular with the American people, both personally and politically, the Congress will follow.
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Depends on who the Dem nominee is
I think Clinton proved beyond a doubt what can get done with Congress being held by the repukes and dealing with an impeachment to boot!
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Two words my friend.


Supreme Court.
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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. yeah
supreme court is huge.

But what about jobs? How will our president get anything done to boost our economy in a republican congress? You think the republicans will approve rolling back any of the bush tax cuts?
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. or perhaps they would rather say "Chief Justice Scalia"
What will happen to the Supreme Court if Bush wins another term can have an effect that can last generations, as I am am sure you are aware. I would have a very desperate feeling if that occurred.

"Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
40. Not if they are appointed this summer.
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think we could win back the House
if our nominee wins by enough of a margin to produce coattails. Even if we don't, the presidency is a huge prize for us.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. We can take back the house and the senate.
But it will take enough pissed of Dems and other people voting Dem across the board. If that happens, we can win anything. Huge turnouts is what it will take.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
38. I do not think we can take them back.
But I think we may lose fewer Senate seats than predicted. We could make some inroads. I think five dem senators are retiring this year. And what about Edwards and Kerry's seats? People are mad enough that we may not lose them all.

We could see some dems elected on coattails. There has been record voter turnout in the primaries. There have been record numbers of new voters registering in alot of states, too. I think that will carry over to November.

There are pissed off repubs, too.

Bleachers, we will see record turnouts.

Are you a Cubs fan, by the way?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Pretzel boy won't have control over this any more. That is good enough
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 10:16 PM by NNN0LHI

The Nuclear Football on display at the Smithsonian Institute. Contrary to populary myth the Football is not handcuffed to the military aide

The Football

The Football is a secure briefcase that contains the information needed to enable the President to authorize and initiate a nuclear weapons strike. It follows the President where ever he goes and is never more that a few steps from his side. A military officer carries the Football and undergoes the nation's most rigorous security background check, "Yankee White". The contents of the Football are believed to include:

The "black book" of nuclear weapons launch options as formulated in the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP). The current SIOP is SIOP 04.

The Emergency Action Message (EAM) or "go codes" needed to authorize use of nuclear weapons;

A booklet on "Emergency Procedures White House" outlining secure locations to which the President could be directed and describing use of the Emergency Broadcast System;

A secure telephone.

The concept of the football came about in the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis. President Kennedy was concerned that some Soviet commander in Cuba might launch their missiles without authorization from Moscow. After the crisis, Kennedy ordered a review of the U.S. Nuclear Command and Control system. The result was the highly classified National Security Action Memorandum that created the Football.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/nuclear-football.htm

The Football

It follows the President where ever he goes and is never more that a few steps from his side. It is carried by a military officer who must undergo the nation's most rigorous security background check - the "Yankee White". It contains a secure SATCOM radio and handset, the nuclear launch codes known as the "Gold Codes" and the President's Decision Book - the nuclear playbook that the President would rely on if he would ever have to decide to use nuclear weapons. Its real name is unknown but it is popularly known as "the football".

The concept of the football came about in the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis. President Kennedy was concerned that some Soviet commander in Cuba might launch their missiles without authorization from Moscow. After the crisis, Kennedy ordered a review of the U.S. Nuclear Command and Control system. The result was the highly classified National Secuirty Action Memorandum that created the football.

The White House Communications Agency which oversees the military unit in charge of the Football, was created with personnel from sections of the Defense Communcations Agency, composed of units fo the Defense Communications Operations Unit (responsible for communications and emergency power engineering) and the Defense Communications Support Unit. To work in these units, a candidate must pas a special seucirty investigation, called "Yankee White." The criteria include U.S. citizenship, unqeustionable loyalty , and an absloute absense of any foreign influence over the individual, his family, or "persons to whom the individual is closely linked." The aide who carries the Football come from the four military branches and are ranked Lt.Colonel, naval Comander, or Marine Major. They must be knowledgeable about all aspects fo the overall SIOP, as well as the various options available to the President for implimenting the war plan.

more

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Clinton's football carrier wrote a backstabbing book about him
Buzz Patterson, I think his name is. That doesn't exactly strike me as unquestionable loyalty. He should have never had that job and if Al Gore was president today that book never would have been allowed to be published.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. He was probably another
r-w plant.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Judges
The next president will probably name at least one Supreme Court Justice. Do you want another Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas?

Bush would probably name Pickering.

Secretary of Defense. Do you want to see Rummy remain?

Secretary of State. Do you want Colin Powell to stay?

And on and on.

Besides if the Dems beat Bush soundly in the fall, which may happen, the Dem president may carry some Senators and reps in on his coattails. Certainly, those Southern states will have a better chance of keeping some Senate seats with a winning president.

I have to be honest. Kerry has surprised me. I think that if he goes hunting in Virginia with Governor Warner, Virginians might be very surprised at the results. Kerry should also ride his Harley and throw the football.
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mot78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Quite a bit
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 10:14 PM by mot78
1. We won't have to worry about extremist SCOTUS judges.

2. Relations with the rest of the world will improve (of course, not everyone will like us, but we'll earn enough global respect for most of them to forgive us for *).

3. When we have the Presidency we have the bully pulpit, trumping whatever power Delay (who I predict will kick Hastert out to become Speaker if the Repugs lose the White House) and Frist have.


...There will be problems, including a hostile Congress, and an active RW propaganda machine. Faux and Rushbo will be pretty energized.
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Scottie72 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. Easy....
The supreme court nominations. We will at the very worst get moderate judges on the court instead of the far right wing one that Bush will nominate. This is why the election is sooooo important. I will vote for the dem for that reason alone.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. Everything above plus
NO MORE JOHN ASHCROFT!

I am beginning to think we just might be able to get back the senate. Looks to me like the people are pissed.
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yeah, they're getting pissed at *, but I don't see that
causing them (repukes) to vote dem everywhere. Of course, if they don't vote, that would help.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. No, not everywhere
but there are a lot of republicans who are ready to switch and if enough democrats are pissed enough to actually go out and vote we should really have a great chance.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Things others have mentioned, plus..
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 10:22 PM by mvd
improved foreign relations. I think some civil liberties could be restored, and Bush's executive orders reversed. In the Senate, the few moderate Repubs might come aboard some of our plans like they've come aboard Bush's - putting pressure on the House. Just the different tone would be refreshing, though.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. The Veto at the very least. Supreme Court appointees...
A good bit when you own the Executive Branch.
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bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. What changes?
Executive Branch

Department of Agriculture
Department of Commerce
Department of Defense
Department of Education
Department of Energy
Department of Health & Human Services
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Housing & Urban Development
Department of Justice
Department of Labor
Department of State
Department of The Interior
Department of Transportation
Department of Veterans Affairs
Department of the Treasury

Judicial Branch

Court of Appeals for Veterans' Claims
Federal Judicial Center
Superior Court Judges
U.S. Circuit Court Judges
U.S. Claims Court Judges
U.S. Court of International Trade Judges
U.S. District Court Judges
U.S. Supreme Court Judges
Territorial Courts
Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces
U.S. Court of Federal Claims
U.S. Court of International Trade
U.S. Supreme Court
U.S. Tax Court
United States Bankruptcy Courts
United States Courts of Appeals
United States District Courts
United States Sentencing Commission

Regulatory Agencies

Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service
Consumer Product Safety Commission
Drug Enforcement Administration
Employee Benefits Security Administration
Environmental Protection Agency
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
Federal Communications Commission
Federal Election Commission
Federal Emergency Management Agency
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
Federal Labor Relations Authority
Federal Trade Commission
Food & Drug Administration
Occupational Health & Safety Administration
Securities & Exchange Commission
(just to name a few)
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patriotvoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. Much will change.
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 10:43 PM by patriotvoice
From a purely tactical standpoint, the effects a Democratic president will have are few. Most prominently, we will not have to worry about Supreme court appointments of far-right ideologues, which is actually a very Good Thing. Justices wield power over long terms and have more direct impact over citizens' daily lives than the President; with centrists or left-leaning justices, the freedoms we enjoy now will not be as likely threatened. Less prominently for us citizens, but more important globally, is that any foreign policy more liberal than George Bush's will help improve our tarnished national image. In short, we won't be immediately stigmatized the "imperialistic bully."

From a perception standpoint, ousting Bush will usher in a tidal wave of hope that will become evident in Congress, in the market, and in the word on the street. With an ally in the Oval Office, Congressional Democrats will not so easily cave to bullying, because they know they have a friend in high-places. The stock market, as a collective entity has always performed better under Democrats, largely because there's a sense of Bullishness about Democrats that energizes the market. Finally, my ear to the ground has heard the word "corruption" leaking around and, I feel, people know that George Bush is the top of it all; they want him gone.

And finally, from a PR perspective. With George out, we also lose the smirking face of Cheney, the frankenstien form of Rumsfeld, the bloated mug of Rove, and the Count Chocula scowl of Wolfowitz. That alone will appease me.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. He'll want to claim the middle ground
. With an ally in the Oval Office, Congressional Democrats will not so easily cave to bullying, because they know they have a friend in high-places.

Depending on who that Democratic President is, that may be true. However, if present trends continue and the Democratic frontrunner wins in November what you are far more likely to see is the "Democratic" President triangulating against the pitiful remains of the Democratic Party in Congress. Yes, that WOULD be like thrashing a splintery crumbly threadbare mummy, but that won't stop him from trying.

He'll want to claim the "middle ground". Unfortunately the only middle ground left will be somewhere between Hitler's Germany and Franco's Spain.

I wouldn't be so sure about the cereal villains disappearing forever, after all the frontrunner has suggested Arch Villain James A. Baker III of the Bush Family Evil Empire as his Middle-east envoy. Sounds very bi-partisan in spirit.
We could even be treated to a return of Henry Kissinger, I'm guessing!
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cid Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Not much will change with the exception of no radical RW judges
otherwise business as usual. We will have to hope and pray that the nominee has the spine to veto the bad stuff the Reps will keep passing.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. HOW ABOUT A REAL PRESIDENT
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 11:51 PM by Skittles
WHO CAN HOLD REAL PRESS CONFERENCES AND SPEAK COMPLETE, GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT SENTENCES WITHOUT THE USE OF A FREAKING TELEPROMPTER. HOW ABOUT A REAL PRESIDENT WHO DOESN'T EMBARRASS AMERICA EVERY TIME HE MEETS WITH A FOREIGN DIGNITARY. HOW ABOUT A PRESIDENT WHO DOESN'T INVADE COUNTRIES BASED ON LIES. HOW ABOUT A PRESIDENT WHO DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A F***ING MORON IN EVERY PHOTO.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. And inspires confidence in the economy and the state of the union
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. As commander in Chief, he can order the immediate withdrawal
of our troops in Iraq and redirect the country's attention to the Economy, stupid and getting the UN to clean up Bush*s mess in Iraq and then hunting down bin Laden as a criminal to be Arrested. No more invading nations to get one man.
Yes, the president can make a difference.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Or...
Or he can prod the Army to raise TWO MORE divisions and get the Congress to rape bill us for it.
That way he can "do Iraq right."

Damn right, the President can make a difference. And if it turns out to be the guy everyone seems to want, the difference will SUCK.
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elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. To start - all executive orders re
gag rules, environmental practices etc.

Add a REAL EPA department along with reasonable court nominations.

Also someone who is not afraid of the American Public to explain needed revisions of tax code and trade agreements so they will pressure reps and sens.

We really need at least one of the houses to mnake some real headway. I think it was only one vote that got the ball rolling on the Clinton recovery.
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
25. Not a damn thing since the DLC has decided
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 01:01 AM by fla nocount
that we won't have a real choice. Just another poll with a gear-shift hanging out his ass........probably shoved in while spooning in a coffin and being kissed on the back of the neck by a cheerleader. sKerry stuff ya know.


edited for clarity.
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He loved Big Brother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
27. Politics as usual
i.e. ignoring progressives.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Well hey in that case
It's a GOOD thing the party is nominating John Kerry eh?
We already know he can roll over for whatever Republicans want.
eg:
IWR
No CHild Left Behind
Patriot Act
Taxcuts for Millionaires

I would predict 4 years of stellar Legislative accomplishment. For Republicans. And their bigger donors....True, it might not be so nice for the rest of us, I admit.

BUT THAT'S A SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR THE PRiVILEGE OF BEING ABLE TO SAY WE PUT A DEMOCRAT IN THE WHITEHOUSE!
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. You beat me to it !!!
I agree.

With respect to Kerry and his supporters, there is an opportunity cost in not having a real progressive for president. (Not that I think he/she would be elected in conservative America anyway...) IMHO, Kerry has shown himself to be effectively where the Republicans used to be on the Left/Right scale, while the current Republicans are much further Right.

His endorsement of the Iraq War and Patriot Act show that he is definitely not a progressive (putting people above corporations and the powerful elite) Democrat.

I think things will be much better, mainly because Bush will be gone, but it won't be what it could and should be.

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Speed8098 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. You obviously do not know how he votes
His endorsement of the Iraq War and Patriot Act show that he is definitely not a progressive

That's a broad statement to make over 2 votes in a 20 year career in public service.

In fact, Kerry has a very progressive voting record.

Educate yourself before you go around making statements like that.

You'll look smarter than you seem to be.
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. I know how he voted on these 2 important issues ...
Don't get me wrong, if he's the candidate, he will get my vote. I'm for ABB. Anyway, regarding his recent record:

Voted for the war.
Voted for the patriot act.

Aren't you concerned about what these 2 votes say about Kerry? I understand that he was conflicted on these issues, but look what his vote stands for.

BTW, he also decided not to vote on the recent medicare fiasco. I know he participated in the filibuster. I know he was on the road, and his vote wouldn't have tipped the decision, but this was still a very important issue.


Also, If I don't happen to agree with you, please argue the point and educate me instead of making ad hominem attacks about my education and intelligence.

My IQ is exceptional. As to my looks, that's debatable. ;)
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Welcome to both of you KB and PR.
It's not often I extend a welcome to low posters. I'm feeling pretty confident here. The DLC is insistent that the nominee has an address on the Hill and know their way about the beltway and if Kerry and Bush are lodge brothers, well that's just continuity.....nice word and hard to spell, ought to keep the riff-raff away.
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. Thanks for the welcome !!
:toast:
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. I remember being here when the Patriot Act was voted on
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 02:02 AM by camero
And most of the posters were adamant about the fact that they would never vote for anyone who voted for that Patriot Act or for authorization to go to war with Iraq. They even went so far as to list the congressmen and women who voted for it.

And look who's in the lead. :wtf:

There may be slight changes in federal policy as to the environment and the energy bill but other than that the Patriot Acts will stay and the war will go on.

Edit before it's too late to change: And Gitmo will still be there.
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DoctorBombay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
35. It's one more branch of government than we control right now.
That's a big deal. I'll take it.
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
36. I think the biggest change will be that we can actualy
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 04:59 AM by Seldona
get our agenda on the table.

Right now Bush, and most of the Republican party, simply snear and then proceed to ignore Dems and their postitions.

Hell, they go so far as to craft legislation behing locked doors, excluding any voice we might have.

With a Democratic President that is not possible, as he can virtualy stop anything they wish to do.

And we also have much more power to sway the President on issues important to us.

We can let our President know he loses our support, and his job, if our agenda is not addressed.

Bush simply doesn't care, or even more true, will actively work against our agenda.

It will not be perfect. Nothing ever is, or even can be.

But it is a hell of alot better than the current situation we are in today.

Spelling and punctuation edit.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
37. Attitude will be the biggest change
people will have a sense of hope again, the possibility of things getting better and the rest if the World will have some respect for America once again. :-)
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
41. I don't think much would change but it sure would
send a message that there is no Bush dynasty. The current joke of a president is there only because of the Supreme Court. Like everything else in his life it is unearned.

I think the pugs would hold up anything a Democratic president wanted to do as far as legislation goes. A Dem president might be forced to do unpopular things such as raise taxes to fix the mess shrub has gotten this ocuntry in so he would be demonized in the media.

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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
42. One thing that changes for me:
I will be watching the next Democratic president just as closely as I am watching bu$h. I will NEVER trust another president.

:freak:
dbt
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
43. Supreme Court Justice Appointees.............................
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. Helen Thomas reclaims her rightful place.
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