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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:34 PM
Original message
How Global Warming can cause the next ice age
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,582584-2,00.html

A total shutdown of the ocean conveyor might lead to a big chill like the Younger Dryas, when icebergs appeared as far south as the coast of Portugal. Or the conveyor might only temporarily slow down, potentially causing an era like the "Little Ice Age," a time of hard winters, violent storms, and droughts between 1300 and 1850. That period's weather extremes caused horrific famines, but it was mild compared with the Younger Dryas.

For planning purposes, it makes sense to focus on a midrange case of abrupt change. A century of cold, dry, windy weather across the Northern Hemisphere that suddenly came on 8,200 years ago fits the bill—its severity fell between that of the Younger Dryas and the Little Ice Age. The event is thought to have been triggered by a conveyor collapse after a time of rising temperatures not unlike today's global warming. Suppose it recurred, beginning in 2010. Here are some of the things that might happen by 2020:

At first the changes are easily mistaken for normal weather variation—allowing skeptics to dismiss them as a "blip" of little importance and leaving policymakers and the public paralyzed with uncertainty. But by 2020 there is little doubt that something drastic is happening. The average temperature has fallen by up to five degrees Fahrenheit in some regions of North America and Asia and up to six degrees in parts of Europe. (By comparison, the average temperature over the North Atlantic during the last ice age was ten to 15 degrees lower than it is today.) Massive droughts have begun in key agricultural regions. The average annual rainfall has dropped by nearly 30% in northern Europe, and its climate has become more like Siberia's.

Violent storms are increasingly common as the conveyor becomes wobbly on its way to collapse. A particularly severe storm causes the ocean to break through levees in the Netherlands, making coastal cities such as the Hague unlivable. In California the delta island levees in the Sacramento River area are breached, disrupting the aqueduct system transporting water from north to south.

Megadroughts afflict the U.S., especially in the southern states, along with winds that are 15% stronger on average than they are now, causing widespread dust storms and soil loss. The U.S. is better positioned to cope than most nations, however, thanks to its diverse growing climates, wealth, technology, and abundant resources. That has a downside, though: It magnifies the haves-vs.-have-nots gap and fosters bellicose finger-pointing at America.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, read about this at Common Dreams
Very unnerving.
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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. there's a movie coming out about this in the summer
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. hmmm..
the director of Independence Day could potentially redeem himself w/ me.

Jake Gyllenhaal is in it, which is good.
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. I've read this and have often heard of it on Pacifica Radio
spacifically WBAI NY 99.5 This could explain the cold and snowy winters of late here in the Northeast.
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masmdu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm moving to Hawaii
Between this and 'peak oil' predictions I'm moving to Hawaii...going solar...getting an electric car...planting a large garden...and learning how to fish.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Then, when you get tired of that,
you can walk back on the ice pack.
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. I bet the Neo-cons will force 20 century Fox to table this one.
They will compare it to CBS's Reagan mini-series.
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StopThief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just so I understand. . . . . .
if it gets hotter it's global warming, and if it gets colder it's global warming. Is this right? Does that mean that the only circumstance in which global warming would not occur would be if the Earth's temperature never changed?
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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The temperature would still rise
at the poles and the equators so it would be global warming, but would cool in the northeast and europe because the ocean currents would be disrupted.

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hansberrym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. No! If temperatures remain constant, then we know things are
really screwed up!!!

As the original post made perfectly clear, changes over long time spans have occurred in the past without human intervention, so if things were to suddenly stop changing, that would be unmistakeable evidence that human activity was really screwing up the works!

(sarcasm over)


Actually we ought to minimize energy waste and pollution regardless of
whether "global warming" is significant.

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brokensymmetry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. As I understand it...
global warming is more complex than just saying every place goes up a couple degrees. Some places might be colder - for example, the UK - due to shifts in the Atlantic currents. Other areas, such as the South in the US, might be warmer and a lot drier (drought).

The problem is that energy will be increased in the overall system, making everything more volatile. This wouldn't be good for agriculture, for example. It might also result in more severe and frequent storms such as hurricanes.

If I'm in error, hopefully someone with more knowledge will correct me...
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seasat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I think you've got it.
I'm not a climatologist but an oceanographer and I recently heard Stefan Rahmstorf speak in a series on sudden climate change. According to him, the cooling in the NE of North America and NW of Europe might occur about 50 years from now and would not really be an ice age. There might even be swings in the climate where it went from cooling to heating in these regions. The result would be severe cold in these regions with high heat in the mid latitudes. Another case that they haven't examined real well but are investigating is the shutdown of the sinking of Antarctic water water in the Southern Ocean. Interestingly, I thought that the capping of the sinking of deep water near Green Land and the shift in the Gulf Stream would have been caused by the melting of the glaciers and ice in the arctic. Actually precipitation plays the biggest role according to Rahmstorf's model. A possible interesting side effect of this shift in currents is lower upwelling of water from the deeper parts of the ocean. The upwelled water is high in nutrients and encourages algal blooms that lead to carbon sequestering. The result of these shifts could mean that there is lower transport of CO2 to the deep ocean and a further increase in the atmosphere, amplifying our contribution of green house gases.
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earthman dave Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yes, it's all a commie plot. Go back to sleep. eom
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