what would it take to organize the religious left?

[ulysses]

I know that there are handicaps where the religious right has strengths - no unified goal of theocracy in America, the ecumenism that tends to admit of a variety of religions where the wingnuts have only a Christianity of dubious heritage to deal with. Still, organizations like Sojourners and others that do good social work do exist.

Is it possible to organize the religious left into a unified political force?

[Killarney]

1. I think extremists in the right may push the other religious to the left

The extremists in the Christian right may push other religious people to the left because they don't want to be associated with the extremism.

For example, I know many Catholics who lean left because the Christian right often Catholic-bashes.

The problem with the religious right is that it caters to one religion only--evangelical Christians. The more they say that there's is the only true way, they will push the other religious people (Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, etc) to the left.

[SharonAnn]

12. They already did. Here's the link

The Clergy Leadership Network: The New Religious Left
12/11/2003 Albert Mohler
http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mohler/?cal=go&adate=12%2F11%2F2003

Clergy leadership Network
http://www.clnnlc.org/index.html

NETWORK, A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby, educates, lobbies and organizes to influence the formation of federal legislation to promote economic and social justice.
http://www.networklobby.org/about/

[blondeatlast]

34. I was going to mention the CLN.

They support the otal separation of church and state, strongly oppose the faith based initiative, etc.

They are more Liberal than religious, and plan to be quite politically active.

[schultzee]

39. What about Liberalslikechrist.org or com and Rev Ray Debuque?

He is left and so is the Reverend Penneybacker recently mentioned in Salon Magazine. These two are fighting the Bush fundi takeover. Left religion may save us from the right crazies.

[Kazak]

2. I would happily get my church involved...

I am the President of a local Unitarian Universalist church.

[southerngirlwriter]

15. I went to a UU church a few times when I was away at school.

I just couldn't fit in there. It was constant Christian-bashing. :( I'm sure that congregation was the exception, not the rule, but I sure wished I could have gotten involved. It wouldn't have been worth it -- I go to church to nurture my spirit, not defend myself.

UUism is a beautiful thing, and I am happy for you. :)

[Kazak]

21. Thanks...

UUism is about acceptance and tolerance, not bashing.

On that note: we are organizing. Currently, we are preparing to hold a public viewing of Uncovered, the moveon.org film about the deception in the lead up to war, and we are helping to fund an ad in the local newspaper in opposition to the federal marriage amendment.

[blondeatlast]

35. I attend a UU house and I'm Christian. I'm very shocked

that that was the reaction.

I'm as welcome as anyone there. All I can say is that I think that is the exception, not at all the rule.

I'm really sorry about that, and very much surprised.

[southerngirlwriter]

3. You really want to know?

An end to the shoddy treatment is all it would take.

Many Christians are thoroughly convinced that the Democratic party doesn't want us. The venom that is spewed to and about religious people is frightening at times. I'm not saying that it's wholly undeserved -- many religious people are BAD people -- but treating all Christians in the party badly is no different from treating all black people badly because some black people commit crimes.

I won't say too much more, as I have already experienced some RL harassment after I posted a few liberalism-is-backed-up-by-Scripture threads. I talked to some folks here about that privately, and their response was that I had "asked for it" by talking about my faith, which is a "choice," and so I deserve what I get, since the bashing was based on a choice.

That one made me laugh. If a woman here talked about using her choice and choosing to have an abortion, and was bashed for it, the basher would be skinned alive. (And rightly so). Same with the choice to be a vegetarian. Or a million other choices that we, as a party, are tolerant about. The choice to be a Christian and not hide that fact, however, is a choice that many Dems are not tolerant of.

I am hesitating before clicking the Post Message button. I fully expect to be flamed into oblivion, which will, ironically, only prove my point.

You want the religious left to turn out in droves? Stop making fun of Christians, stop painting us all with the Jerry Falwell broad brush, stop implying that people who believe in God are mentally ill, stop all the bullshit along those lines.

That would get the religious left organized.

Flame away.

On edit: I am referring mostly to the way Democrats treat each other, not to our party's talking heads on TV. Mostly.

[Killarney]

4. No flames here

I agree with you.

I'm agnostic myself but know a handful of Christian liberals (and many Catholic liberals). I think many of us are too quick to bash Christians and you're right, they are not all the same. The evangilical Christians are locked with the GOP, but true Christians that follow the words of Jesus (non violence, compassion for the poor, etc.) should be Democrats. :)

[Solon]

7. I take issue with the bigotry.

What makes catholics not christian. Your sentence "...Know a handful of Christian liberals (and many Catholic liberals). is bigotry of the right wing fundies. They are the ones who claim that Mormons and Catholics are not Christian do not fall into that trap.

[Killarney]

33. I take issue

with you saying I'm a bigot. My entire family is Catholic. I was born and raised Catholic.

Please show me where I said Catholics are not Christian. I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth especially when it comes to my family's religion. I'm highly insulted.

I said that I know a handful of Christians who are liberal and many Catholics who are liberal. By that meaning that I know a lot of Catholics that are liberal and I only know a handful of non-Catholic Christians who are liberal. Maybe I could have said what each one was, but I don't know if they are Baptist, Methodist, etc, I just know they are Christian. I, in no way, said that Catholics were not Christian.

And to infer from that that I am a bigot is highly insulting and I have stood up for Catholics so much on this board and was born and raised Catholic.
:mad:

[DrBB]

5. Sorry I didn't see your threads

I'm a Christian liberal--Episcopalian. Lots of us out here, lots of us are activitsts. As you can tell by our denomination's recent stands on gay rights. My own bishop is an activist on mid-east peace and Palestinian rights as well. Lot of this stuff going on. Doesn't get as much coverage as the fundies, but that's not OUR fault.

And yeah, I generally stay away from the religion threads here (may be why I missed yours) because I don't feel like rehashing all the same old arguments about how Christians "never" live up to the (very lefty) values in the Gospels.

Conservatism has much more to do with worship of authority than with genuine religion, and right wing religion has much more to do with worship of authority than Christ. What they want is to punsih everyone who doesn't believe what thy do. They call it "hating the sin and loving the sinner." What it really means is "Everyone who doesn't think what I think will burn in hell for ever!" Now doesn't that make ya happy? Can I get a witness? Can ya say aMEN?

[southerngirlwriter]

9. Here's yer AMEN!

AMEN!! :D :yourock:

[AliceWonderland]

8. No intention of flaming you in the least

Just some discussion. From what I've noticed, religious threads on DU tend to degenerate; however, the very fact that they degenerate shows that there are strong supporters on different sides of the issue. There are always posters who say that they are Democrats of faith (for want of a better term), so it's certainly not everyone on DU tossing religious babies out with the bathwater.

And frankly, as an immigrant to the US, I have seen *no* media pundit circle in the country where being religious is trashed. It's considered unquestionable virtuous to be religious in this country, it seems to me. And I've noticed because I'm not.

I like the idea of a "religious left." Maybe "progressive faith" is a better term; the non-wingnuts I know seem more into faith than the institution of religion. After viewing that 60 Minutes piece on the Left Behind crew, I'm lucky I got any sleep last night. *shudder* And at least in Canada, church-based initiatives have spearheaded some important social justice causes. The one that springs to mind is the issue of social justice in Central America in the 1980s, something some commited Roman Catholics were involved in. There were also some amazing ecumenical projects going on. Really grassroots stuff.

Having said that, I understand the reaction of folks to All Things Religious. I'm astounded by the level of religiosity in the country, and quite frankly, I find it creepy and appalling. I'm not used to religious being so unquestioningly injected into political, social and economic life. I am much quicker to stand up for the other point a view since moving to the US! At home, I was sort of laissez-faire agnostic; whatever goes, goes, and I'm cool. But I swear, living here turned me into an atheist as a way to protect my sanity.

But I repeat, I think a "progressive faith" movement would be incredibly healthy for this country. Don't hesitate before pushing that Post button! It's good to hear from different voices... and hey, the vegetarians get mocked by some, too.

[blondeatlast]

36. I like it, with a minor addition: Progressives of Faith

"Progressive faith" sounds a bit confusing, IMHO.

I hope you don't mind if I use the phrase to describe myself, with my very minor adjustment.

[Malva Zebrina]

38. I agree, it is an incredibly fascinating phenomena

perhaps we just have not grown up enough as a country. I find the Christain bashing on DU the same as anywhere else and it is bigotry. Christains bash other Christains and attack other Christians. They do more attacking of Christians than any atheist would even consider. They are the own worst enemies -- not atheists.

If they are "fundies", they are not "real" Christains and this is exactly the same wording that fundamentalist literalists like to say about other religions that do not have the same holy criteria as theirs, therefore, because they are not "real" Christians, they are fair game for bashing here on DU. If people say Jeebus that is bad and disrespectful, but saying "fundie" is acceptable. :shrug: :eyes:

Yet, when I have questioned Christian dogma in the course of a discussion and most of the time I am just interested in the logic part of the discussion, I am attacked by strident, defensive Christian apologists.

I guess the old biblical verse to see the mote in your own eye is one of those not followed too much by those who believe and that is why those little platitudes are shallow.

I don't know why this religion phenomena and obssession but it is certainlyu curious. I agree with your implicit statement that it is unhealthy. Such defensiveness toward a religion or a church on a Democratic talk forum, and quite a liberal one at that, for an institution like any church,is another curiosity. No religion is democratic.

I am not a believer, but I find these types of iniquiries curious and interesting, as historically the church and religions have done so many incredibly cruel and barbaric things while all the time insisting on it's exclusiveness , sacredness and holiness, and the human being is so vulnerable to myth and mysticism as to leave reason hanging out on the line in favor of it.

Intuitively, I want to connect the economic system of capitalism somehow to the phenomena of religious obssession in this country. Whether that is out in left field, I do not know enough.

[LoZoccolo]

13. I'd agree.

I appreciate your post here and have really enjoyed other ones I've seen you post as well.

There's supposed to be a rule here against anti-religion posts, but it does go on here quite a bit. Some simple gestures on the part of people critical of the mixture of religion and government, like using the terms "religious right" or "Christian reconstructionists" rather than scapegoating specific denominations or traditions (which are theological distinctions and not political ones), or insulting central figures of their faith with words like "gawd" and "jeebus", would show a greater amount of courtesy and respect for the Christian contingent I see here, most of whom I've seen are not happy about what goes on in right-wing politics but don't get involved in arguments about religion here (and I suspect they're quiet enough not to complain). I think most of the religious people here see that mixing religion and government starts corrupting their religious institutions - now wouldn't even the people who reject those religious traditions want to support the people that could go back to their places of worship with ideas from here rather than the right-wing Christian establishment?

So let's start already.

[Lars39]

19. No flames, but an insight.

The thing is,the fundies often leave a trail of devastation that is very personal to the person whose life they have effected. It often goes much deeper than being dissed on an online forum.

I was left with PTSD after my brush with fundies. The very mention of religion/church would trigger me. I am being shunned right now by family members I have known for over 25 yrs. My children have been written off because they're not saved.

It has taken me over 2 yrs to get to the point where I can distinguish and appreciate the difference between fundies and christians.

My experience with fundies is not very unique, nor is it the worst I've ever heard of.

Turn the other cheek, 'cause most of the time it might be somebody lashing out in hurt. Have compassion for your fellow man. You never know what they have been thru.

You don't have to rise to all the bait, either. ;)

[southerngirlwriter]

23. I totally understand where you're coming from.

I was raised by fundies who no longer consider me "saved" because I am now a LIBERAL Christian. I have suffered at the hands of sick people, too. I understand.

However, I was robbed at gunpoint and assaulted by four black men a few years ago. If that incident turned me into a racist, would anyone -- especially Democrats -- put up with that for a second?

A lesbian touched me inappropriately when I was 12. If that incident turned me into a homophobe, would anyone here put up with hate speech about that?

I understand your pain. I just ask you to see my point, too.

:hug:

Edited for a typo.

[Lars39]

24. I see your point.

But so much of the "I'm being picked on because I'm christian" seems to be in generalities, whereas true abuse is personal. Being the victim of religious abuse and being truly persecuted for religious beliefs are opposite sides of the same coin in a way. Both are personal. Compassion grows from understanding what makes people behave the way they do.

Gotta get some shuteye! :hi:

[southerngirlwriter]

25. I totally agree.

"Compassion grows from understanding what makes people behave the way they do."

SOOOOO true. :-)

[grasswire]

6. My friend, look around

The religious left IS organized. It's just that the activities of the religious left include feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, caring for the ill, freeing prisoners, protecting rights, etc. The religious right spends its money on political action. The religious left spends its money alleviating suffering.

Did you miss the event where clergy were arrested in the rotunda of the U.S. Capitol for reading scripture in protest of the cutting of welfare benefits a few years ago?

Here are some of the organizations:

Interfaith Alliance
Sojourners
Call for Renewal
Tikkun
The Other Side (a publication)

All of those have web sites. Give them a look.

[Merlin]

10. The religious left is tiny, and they're nearly all activists already.

True they aren't organized as a religious voice. That would be great if it could be done. But I believe this is a relatively small group of people.

Still it would be great to hear from people who would unabashedly set the record straight as to what Jesus really stood for.

[arewethereyet]

18. you couldn't be more wrong

the Roman Catholic Church is NOT tiny, they ARE orgnaized and are limited by the left in what they can, in conscience, be active in.

the left them, they did not leave the left.

[leftofthedial]

11. a miracle

you'd have to find it first.

then you'd have to deal with its utter lack of organization.

[arewethereyet]

14. not without alienating portions of the base

it used to be organized and highly effective and went by the name of Roman Catholic and Southern Baptist.

For those in the progressive camp who think the party has left them, remember how others who had the tent shifted from them and were left outside feel.

[cally]

16. The religious left is fairly organized

but strong supporters of the separation of church and state. I don't want the religious left to organize politically. Look at your own community, I would predict that many mainstream churches cook meals for the homeless, fund abuse centers, volunteer at prisons, and support many other 'liberal' causes. I work on some of these charities with so called 'conservative' folks. I don't talk politics much because I'm in such awe at what they have done in their lives. They are spending their lives helping those in need.

[resist]

17. First things first

You should ask yourself if its possible to organize democrats? So far, it doesn't look good.

[Doctor_J]

20. Lots of $$$$

there's alot of them, and they're just as devout as the wingnuts. But the RR has four or five cable stations on everyone's TV, while the RL has nothing.

IF they could get a TV station on everyone's cable, they would be just as much of a force.

[SanchoPanza]

22. A Talk

Michael Parenti gave a talk a few years back titled "The Political Uses of Religion". In it he not only describes the various practices and pontificating of the religious right, but also the existence of a religious left (including Catholic practitioners of Liberation Theology in Latin America, and others).

Of particular interest is the Q&A segment towards the end of the talk (at 39:50, to be exact) wherein a member of what the questioner described as the "Athiest Right" chided Parenti for suggesting an political alliance between Left-Leaning Atheists and Theists, and not suggesting a "religious" alliance between Atheists across the political spectrum.

The entire talk is around 5mb.

[question everything]

26. Praise the Lord! (And Howard Dean, Too.) - My Turn, Newsweek

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4113677/

Feb. 9 issue - I am a born-again liberal. That is, my politics are liberal and two years ago I was baptized in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Maine, while the congregation of my church stood on the sand and sang "Amazing Grace." The church sits in a small fishing village on the end of a peninsula. Inside on a Sunday morning you'll find fishermen, families, gray-haired ladies and a pastor with a powerful message. While my political beliefs go back at least as far as JFK, my life in Christ has become no less central to how I see the world, and myself.

(snip)

The pastor immediately apologized for assuming that because we were Christians, we must all be Republican. "Well," volunteered another church member, "the liberals have really ruined this country." A sweet, white-haired grandma joined in gleefully, as the pastor tried to stem the tide he had started. I sat there wondering whether I really belonged.

(snip)

Meanwhile, as the volunteer Howard Dean "victory captain" in my town, I recently hosted a Dean party for fellow Democrats. Eleven neighbors showed up to share thoughts and carrot cake. As we sat around the wood stove listening to the wind beat against the windows, it seemed I had another bunch of sisters and brothers with me. I had to smile, because I was reminded of what Bob Dylan sang about God: "Oh, Jokerman, you know what he wants." I think God wants all of us—Dean advocates and born-again Christians alike—to be brothers and sisters. The joke is on me, for ever thinking there were real differences between us.

Fox lives in Tenants Harbor, Maine.

[Terwilliger]

27. Dennis Kucinich

Kucinich is religious and leftist

[JasonBerry]

28. SOJOURNERS

I have worked with these people and they are incredible. They are one of the largest "Christian left" groups in America.
http://www.sojo.net/

[drdigi420]

29. would that be the wiccans? the pagans?

or just those that believe jesus was the son of a god?

or would that include those of us that, like George Carlin and I, worship the sun?

[Woodstock]

31. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me

That's the whole point, you are free to choose what you will. And please, let me choose what I will. I won't be a drag about it if you won't. Freedom - that's what America is all about. Or should be.

[Woodstock]

30. The great myth on boards like this is that the left is not religious

It may be unfashionable to admit it here. But most Democrats are religious. Christians on the left are more religious than the right - we just prefer to FOLLOW the teachings of Jesus rather than subvert them.

Jimmy Carter is a man of God. George W. Bush is not.

[dawn]

32. What about organizing a real religious left...

Not just for Christians, but for people of all faiths. Just a thought. Many people consider themselves religious (or spiritual), even though they aren't Christian.

That'd show the Republicans. People from different faiths uniting, while also not shunning those who are atheist or agnostic. :)

[blondeatlast]

37. Clergy Leadership Network is represented by dozens of faiths

http://www.clnnlc.org/index.html

They are more for clergy than the laity, but they are a noble organzation.