Schoolbus fight.

[Catherine Vincent]

I couldn't find any other thread about this. This is the one that is being shown on all the cable shows today when about 7 or 8 boys beat up one 1 boy on a school bus and the other kids just look (some of them even laughing). And to top it off the bus driver didn't try and stop it until it was too late.

This is disgusting and I believe this goes on a lot more than we think.

[Pithlet]

1. Too late?

Did the boy die? :( How horrible.

[Catherine Vincent]

8. No, he's alright. He didn't die.

But the driver didn't bother to stop it until they were done beating the crap out of the little boy. It was a very disturbing video.

[Pithlet]

15. That's terrible. n/t

[Pithlet]

16. That's terrible. n/t

[tom_paine]

25. Maybe the driver didn't know it was happening?

[PVnRT]

29. I doubt it

I saw that video, and if the driver didn't at least know SOMETHING was going on that required attention, then he or she needs to be fired.

[htuttle]

2. Speaking as someone who's been wearing glasses...

...since the 4th grade in 1973:

Duh!

Nobody died back then, to my recollection, but boys have been beating up the weaker boys since proto-human days. It's an unfortunate hold over from our mammalian past (and present!).

NOTE: I didn't see the video, but I would say that one modern distinction is that modern humans seem to be, on the whole, far more cruel and mean spirited than the animals I observe in the wild. There are very few species where ritual fighting goes beyond the first sign of defeat/submission on the part of the loser. Humans seem to like to keep kicking them after they are down.

[bleedingheart]

5. it was a "lord of the flies" moment

first one kid starts pummelling a kid in his seat then a bunch of other boys started in...seen it many times when I was a kid...however my son rides a bus with a seating arrangement and an older lady bus driver who will kick the *ss (figuratively not literally) of any one who steps out of line...she rocks!

My son says "she's mean"...which means she runs a tight ship...I like that...

[tom_paine]

26. Good points all, htuttle!

[Iris]

43. But that doesn't make it right.

And adults who witness those situations should step in and teach kids that.

[arewethereyet]

3. you're right

they need to fire the driver and arrest the parents of the brats

[sherifffruitfly]

54. they're BUS DRIVERS for chrissakes!

sheesh - guess i'm the only one who feels this way --

the damn parents need to be fired - not the bus driver......

the bus driver's job is just to, well, DRIVE THE DAMN BUS.... not get into a fight with 10 13 year olds, which, even if he wins (not terribly likely), he'll get arrested n sued for assault, child abuse, and the like....

it's the f-in parents guys..... c'mon......

cdj

[drdigi420]

56. actually, the bus drivers job is to ensure

the safety of all on board

[Granite]

4. Sad

I've got a 6 month old daughter, and can't imagine what I'd do (or how I'd feel) if that were her.

[Solomon]

6. Think About What They Showed You.

Out of all the billions of images they could have chosen to give you, they gave you the image of very young BLACK males fighting while the commentator kept emphasising the word "brutal".

I'm sorry. I got beat up like that as a kid as did many other boys in the neighborhood. Yeah I didn't like it, and it was wrong, but it wasn't murder, or "brutal", and no, nonbody got arrested. How you could call something "brutal" where no weapons are used and the guys are seven of eight or so, is beyond me. Somehow, now I can't get that image out of my head. A gang of very young black boys who committed a "brutal assault".

Maybe they did. I don't know. But I'd like to at least wait and see what if any injuries there are before prejuding the thing.

I'm sorry. I don't see any possible reason for the cherry picking of this story except to put forth the image of predatory pre-teen black males in the brain. Shoot, people are already talking about how the bus driver should go to jail. I guess he should have immediately stopped that bus, no matter whether it was safe to do so or not.
I wonder how many days he was able to just get through one day, with no stupid incidents on the bus.

[Granite]

9. I agree with the racial overtones

and this was, most certainly, a sensationalized story run specifically to elicit the reaction that it has received.

But there is no denying that what appeared on tape was brutal, regardless of who perpetrated the act.

[Catherine Vincent]

10. Yeah, there were fights in school when I went.

But I don't think I have ever seen 8 boys gang up on 1. I didn't like that image with them being black either but it happened. Those boys should be suspended and made to attend summer school or something.

[Bonobo]

14. You are entirely correct. It's all in the (sub) context.

There were regular fights among when I was a kid and no one ever conflated it to this degree. I agree it was rough, but c'mon.

Cherry picking is exactly correct.

[Jesus H. Christ]

21. Mmhmm.

Remember the school yard fight where a bunch of black kids got expelled, Jesse Jackson held a protest.

Then they released a video, looked like any regular fight from any given high school, except for a bunch of screaming running white people. All the republicans got real upset, "of course they should be kicked out. Look at them, they're animals. They frightened those poor people, who probably thought they were gangbangers and start shooting up the place."

Fucking racist dickheads.

Violence is what kids do. Consider it a learning opportunity. Suspend them if it's a first offense, juvy if they've got a record. Like half of us didn't get in fights when we were kids.

[AP]

28. Solomon, you should have seen the story my local CBS affiliate followed

this one up with. Shocking.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1116929&mesg_id=1117803&page=

[Ksec]

30. Yea lets excuse him because hes Black

You people kill me. I dont give a flying fk what color the kid was. He beat the shit out of another kid and he deserves to be severely punished. Stop pandering. Its disgusting.

People are people. Get over your hangups

[Jesus H. Christ]

33. "you people"?

Nobody is saying he shouldn't go unpunished. It's just that we're saying he shouldn't be treated like and animal, and be punished harshly. If you're not aware black kids are on average punished much more harshly in schools than white children.

Maybe you should get over your hangups.

[Catherine Vincent]

36. I didn't see anyone post that the perpetrators should be excused

because they are black.

[OhioStateProgressive]

38. assault is illegal(nt)

[Jesus H. Christ]

39. Gee, thanks Eisenstein.

Who knew?

[OhioStateProgressive]

41. well

it seems a simple enough justification for all the kids involved expelled

[Jesus H. Christ]

44. When you were a kid

did you or other kids get expelled for fighting? The worst I ever saw was suspension. Usually just detention unless it was a kid with a record. I certainly never saw anybody being arrested by the police.

Anyway, the thread is more about the media's bias.

[OhioStateProgressive]

48. yes

I got bullied badly in school, and I did pursue charges against a few of them through the school and they did get expelled.

[teach1st]

7. Good stuff doesn't make the news...

I don't for a second deny that brutal bullying happens.

On the other hand, I'm aware of some kids who broke up a fight yesterday after school, off school grounds. Apparently, a child (allegedly a bullying type) was choking another using the victim's own neck chain - other kids pulled the offender away and got in the offender's way as the offender attempted to get at the victim again.

Not newsworthy, of course.

[Solomon]

12. Look. Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with suspensions or

some sort of discipline. What I have a problem with is the subliminal message of the showing was that it's okay to ARREST a pre-teen black male for "brutal assault", out of a school gang beating where no injuries occurred.

Publicizing this incident does absolutely nothing but plant symbols in the brain. It's not a solution to the problem to show that beating.

I guess the principal of the school will be hung out to dry by O'Really and Hannity if he doesn't immediately remand these thugs to the custody of the sheriff along with a plea that the death penalty ought to apply.

Shit, they done locked up so many of us with the drug war and all, that now they going for the pre-teens. New system coming up? Can't wait to see it.

Yeah. I saw what the nazis did to the jews, how they dehumanized them first. It starts in the brain.

[cally]

20. I vehemently disagree

While I agree that the media plays this because young black males are involved, and publicizing this the way the media does is wrong. That does not excuse the behavior or the society that seems to promote and accept such behavior. American society seems to accept bullying behavior as normal. Without the racial overtones, I hope you would acknowledge that their behavior is extremely wrong.

I've advocated anti-bullying and tolerance curriculum in schools. I believe it works. It teaches kids at a very young age to speak out against the bullies and hate filled bigotry. It creates an environment where those who speak out are honored instead of the bullies. I wish all schools would adopt this curriculum

[Solomon]

22. Just what is it you are "vehemently" disagreeing with. Are you saying

these kids should have gotten arrested and prosecuted?

Nobody supports or excuses bullying in the schools. Hell, according to the report I saw, I been "brutalized" many many times in school.
Don't try to make it that I'm excusing the problem. But arresting pre-teens for this type of activity is ridiculous.

[OhioStateProgressive]

42. i think they should

it's fucking assault...do it in public and your ass is in court, even if you are a kid.

[AP]

46. That's not true. The law treats kids like they're capricious and unable

to distinguish right from wrong. That's why we don't treat kids like we treat adults.

[OhioStateProgressive]

49. wrong

For felonies committed, juveniles are in fact put through the court system, and sentenced usually to youth detention or probation

[AP]

51. Those kids on the bus will not be tried for felonies. If they weren't mino

they might be.

Minor - adult. The law makes distinctions.

When I was in elementary school, a kid deliberately stabbed another kid in the back with a pencil. Nobody was arrested. Nobodies was charged with a crime. BECAUSE THEY WERE MINORS.

[OhioStateProgressive]

52. maybe in your state

it makes distinctions in sentencing

a felony is a felony...for a juvenile it is called a "juvenile felony"

[AP]

53. Every state presumes minors don't have mens rea sufficient to commit

crimes, except in exceptional circumstances.

[OhioStateProgressive]

55. just not true

it isn't

they go to Juvie hall, or get probabtion for many things, amongst them theft, assault, criminal mischief.

I know many people who were given juvenile probation or Juvenile Hall for criems committed.

[AP]

57. Minors are presumed not to be able to form the level of criminal intent

required for a conviction of almost every crime. You have to make a special motion (I presume -- not a criminal lawyer) and satisfy very specific, stringent requirements to be convicted of a crime.

Even juvenile hall isn't a real criminal conviction. You get out when you're 18, and your record is scrubbed, I believe (again, not a criminal lawyer).

[OhioStateProgressive]

58. negative

I am not a criminal lawyer either, but my sister works for the police as a forensic psychologist

a felony is a felony, and the only difference is in the sentencing

[thelocalkgb]

11. I saw the video first thing this morning

Definitely not a pleasant thing to wake up to.

[EV1Ltimm]

13. reminds me of my bus back in the day

some kids would start beating up another kid, everyone would turn around and start giggling, the bus driver would say "Hey! Knock it off!" and keep driving. Of course, i'd be the only one saying "Stop it!" and then i'd get called a pussy.

But if you ratted them out, you'd get beat up as well and everyone at school would hear about it and make your life a living hell.

Ah yes, the "best years of my life".

[maggrwaggr]

17. the only reason it was "cherrypicked" is cuz it was on video

no videotape, no story.

It's just sensationalism. They'll show anything these days on the "news".

A few years back I was appalled to see CBS evening news with Dan Rather show surveillance camera videotape of a convenience store owner being gunned down (to death) in his store by some robbers. Not only did they use the footage as "news", but they used it as a COMMERCIAL. They used it as a teaser before they went to a commercial break! You know, with Dan Rather saying "coming up next ....."

I was so disgusted I wrote CBS, I wrote Dan Rather (this was before e-mail, or at least before everybody had it). Never heard back from them one bit.

To me, it was the beginning of the end for the "news media".

It's just gotten worse and worse since then. Snuff TV.

[Solomon]

18. You're right about snuff TV. I'm sure they have plenty of videos of

school fights though if video cameras are on the buses. They jerk us around like they think we're ragdolls.

[DemoTex]

19. Reminds me of my bus days in Jr. High. Bus 42.

"Hood" used to beat up on me. Not bad, though. Kind of kidding. I was 110#, soaking wet, and Hood was 195. "Hood," killed at Hamburger Hill, A Shau Valley, Republic of Vietnam, May 19, 1969. RIP, Hood.

[Catherine Vincent]

23. One on one fighting is common and accepted more.

The individual that doesn't win will have to settle that situation with teachers or parents, etc. But a bunch of brats ganging up on 1 is uncalled for. I would suggest to the principal for those students to get suspended and let them be allowed to return to school. But make it mandatory that they attend summer school and maybe even stay after school for further detention. That would give them a chance to straighten up and behave like normal kids.

[Loonman]

24. So this is a new thing?

Open your eyes, people.

[Serenades]

27. did

Did they say why the fight started? Or was it just random?

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[bobbieinok]

32. why was there a video?????

standard on school busses????

who took video to TV station???

I find this really weird

[Jesus H. Christ]

34. Yup, video cameras are standard on busses.

Mostly because of fights, vandalism, "inappropriate contact" nudge nudge wink wink.

No explanation for how it got to TV.

[donco6]

50. We have video on all our buses.

Standard ops. Keeps us from having to argue with mommie and daddie about little Johnny always being an angel. Everything they do is displayed in all its glory.

[bhunt70]

35. bus driver can't just stop the bus...

you don't know the cictumstances of the traffic situation. What is he supposed to do, slam on the breaks.

I've been jumped a few times in my younger days and while it was demoralizing to get my ass kicked by 4 guys at once I lived through it.

Should the kids be punished, Hell Yes!

Is it a news story of importance? I doubt it.

[mrgorth]

37. This is why

my son is getting aikido lessons right now.

[Jesus H. Christ]

40. You're son is taking aikido

because of racial media bias?

[DrRock]

45. ridiculous

This whole bullying situation is ridiculous. How the hell do you think children grow up to be violent adults? By learning that this type of behavior is acceptable, that's how. Can you imagine what would happen if you were sitting at your desk at work, and all of a sudden, seven co-workers jumped up and starting beating the hell out of you? First off, they'd all be arrested. Secondly, there'd be criminal trials. Then there would be civil suits against the perpetrators. Then there'd be a lawsuit against the company you work for (because that's where the real money is). And how do people react when it happens to children? "Boys will be boys."

This is nonsense! Why are children afforded less protection under the law than adults? I'm not saying that a bunch of 10 year olds should go to prison for something like this, but this is certainly a problem that needs to be addressed. What kind of kids would do this? First of all, if they act in such a violent way, they most likely learned it from their parents, and they obviously need some help. Kids have a hard enough time making it to adulthood without having to worry about being brutally assaulted on the bus.

I know you can't just kick these kids out of school and let them take their chances on the street; that's completely counterproductive. My father has worked with juvenile offenders for the bulk of his career, and there needs to be more funding for dealing with these kinds of kids before they become full grown criminals. It takes a lot of work, but these kinds of kids CAN turn their lives around.

Another thing that infuriates me is how this kind of behavior is brushed off as normal, adolescent hazing, or just a part of growing up. But when the kid who's being bullied feels like he has nobody to turn to, and the physical and emotional abuse has pushed him to the edge, and he decides to bring a gun to school and stop the torture by shooting his tormentors, well then the whole world screams, "Try him as an adult! Give him the chair!" Talk about hypocrisy.

[Jesus H. Christ]

47. Who's excusing it?

Nobody is saying it could go unpunished.

It's just that we're saying this happens everywhere. Kid's got into fights in the past, they do now too. It happens with white kids, black kids, whatever.

The issue is cherrypicking video of black kids doing it, and portraying it as especially vicious, "they're animals after all", and deserving of especially harsh punishment. "We put vicious dogs to sleep, btw."