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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 02:34 AM
Original message
Pilots.. a little help please
I found the site where all aviation accidents are recorded, and there are lots for 1972..(It's been speculated that he crashed one and got too scared to fly again)..

Could you guys look at this chart?? Is the f-102 called a different name??

I looked at Jan-Apr 72

Boy there sure are a lot of small plane crashes :scared:


http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Month.asp
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Delta Dagger Is The Plane's Nickname
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 02:40 AM by mhr
Edit:

Delta Dagger - F102

Delta Dart - F106

Picture Link

www.photovault.com/Link/Military/AirForce/show.asp?tg=MYFVolume08/MYFV08P14_08

www.photovault.com/Link/Military/AirForce/Aircraft/F-102DeltaDagger.html
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. He may have flown more than that "brand"
http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm

Chasing George W. Bush and the F-102
A piece that got this started.

What he's like in real life.
by Paul Burka

"Well, am I running?" George W. Bush demanded to know.

I happened to be sitting in my Suburban near the south door of the state capitol, discharging a passenger, just as the governor's silver-gray Lincoln Continental was doing the same. It was early February, well before he would announce the formation of a presidential exploratory committee, and a smidgen of suspense still lingered. I had waved at Bush as he went past, and he had swerved over to deliver the opening gambit in one of his favorite games: conversational one-upmanship. Having played it before, I knew I didn't have a chance.

"Sure," I said. "You'd be the wuss of all time if you didn't."

"But what about the rumors?" he shot back. Then, to my utter stupefaction, he proceeded to tick off everything the national press was investigating about his past: five or six of the most salacious things that could be said about anyone—including, in his own words, "I bought cocaine at my dad's inauguration"—plus intimate gossip about his family.

As he well knew, I had already heard all of it through the media grapevine. "You missed one," I said. "You crashed a jet while you were in the National Guard because you were drunk." He spread his hands. "That's easy," he said. "Where's the plane?" Game over. He spun around and headed off.

more...





George W. Bush: A Short flying history

Training at Moody.

In September 1963, the Northrop T-38 "Talon," a two-seat, twin-engine (turbojet) training aircraft arrived at Moody to replace the T-33. In 1965, the T-41A Cessna, a four-seat, single-engine, propeller-driven training aircraft arrived at Moody and replaced the T-28. These small "prop-jobs" were used in the initial phases of student training. Students received about 30 hours of flight training in the T-41 before advancing to the T-37 primary jet trainer. The T-41 also was used at Valdosta Municipal Airport until June 1973. At that time, all T-41 training was consolidated at Hondo Municipal Airport, Hondo, Texas.



The T-41 trainer is a standard Cessna Model 172 light general aviation aircraft purchased "off-the-shelf" by the Air Force for preliminary flight screening of USAF pilot candidates. The first 170 T-41As were ordered in 1964, and an additional 34 were ordered in 1967. Most went into service at various civilian contract flight schools, each located near one of Air Training Command's Undergradute Pilot Training (UPT) bases. In 1968 and 1969 the USAF Academy acquired 52 T-41Cs, with more powerful engines, for cadet flight training.










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





From 1961 to 1975 there were no changes in the mission or responsibilities at Moody. The 3550th, under the Consolidated Pilot Training Program, trained Air Force officers as aircrew members with the Cessna T-37 and T-38. During this 14 years, 4,432 pilots were trained and received their wings. Base personnel strength varied during the period from 2,000 to 3,000 military personnel. On 1 December 1973, the 3550th Pilot Training Wing inactivated and the 38th Flying Training Wing activated in its place; however, no changes in personnel, mission, or aircraft ensued.



By all accounts Bush trained at Moody in the T-41A and the T-38.

Then he moved to Ellington AFB and the 147th FIG/ 111th FIS.

Whrere he trained in a T-33A before transtioning to the F-102A



more............................





Bush Service Time Line
May 28, 1968: Bush enlists as an Airman Basic in the 147th Fighter-Interceptor Group, Ellington Air Force Base, Houston, and is selected to attend pilot training.

July 12, 1968: A three-member board of officers decides that Bush should get a direct commission as a second lieutenant after competing airman's basic training.

July 14 to Aug. 25, 1968: Bush attends six weeks of basic training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas.

Sept. 4, 1968: Bush is commissioned a second lieutenant and takes an 8-week leave to work on a Senate campaign in Florida.

Nov. 25, 1968 to Nov. 28, 1969: Bush attends and graduates from flight school at Moody Air Force Base, Georgia. (UTP Course #P-V4A-A Moody AFB, Ga. 53 weeks November 1969)

January 1,1970 147th changes from doing Alerts to training F-102 pilots.

December 1969 to June 27, 1970: Bush trains full-time to be an F-102 pilot at Ellington Air Force Base.

Febuary 1970 Bush attends Preint Pilot Training (T-33 ANG112501 5 weeks )

June 1970 his records are not clear his computer records show RGRAD NAV TNG but his Discharge shows F102 Intcp Pilot Training (F102 ANG1125D 16 weeks). His Military Biography shows: Professional Military Education: Basic Military Training, Undergraduate Pilot Training and nothing else.

Here is his total Service

July 1970 to April 16, 1972: Bush, as a certified fighter pilot, attends frequent drills and alerts at Ellington.

Computer records show last Physical as May 1971. Which also shows him as CR MEM ON FS (crew member on flight service) not PILOT.

During his fifth year as a guardsman, Bush's records show no sign he appeared for duty.

May 24, 1972: Bush, who has moved to Alabama to work on a US Senate race, gets permission to serve with a reserve unit in Alabama. But headquarters decided Bush must serve with a more active unit.

more

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buckeye1 Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Just a thought.
Here is where our President got his "advanced hours".

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/tf102.htm

Hey, he was riding "shotgun".

I might be wrong but, can you argue any better?
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not sure that the NTSB investigates...
... military aircraft accidents, unless it's a joint military/civilian accident. The military has their own crash investigators.

Probably the only way to determine if Bush didn't fly because of an accident would be to have someone in Houston look through the Chronicle archives around that time, and/or seek the TANG aircraft inventory and aircraft maintenance records through an FOIA.

Cheers.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. There were some Huey somethings listed.. aren't they military??
:shrug:
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Huey Equals Helicopter
eom
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Rebellious Republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Bell and Howell, I used to fly in them, Navy UH1N's
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 06:11 AM by Rebellious Republica
Huey was there nicknames
:kick:
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I would say it was not posted any place because......
I knew some one that worked in a service hospital next to where the bodies came in and saw who came into hospital and they came in, in body bags and just hurt but it was not in the paper. Service likes to keep that out of paper. It does get in but usually because you have some good news men around. Often it does not get out.Also most men in National Guards could fly before. then went into guard, as it was so costly to train them.So a C Yalie get on top of the list the day his name goes on and even with ave. to low rates he gets a costly training in a plane they are going to take out of service, and his father is a big wig. Well can't be any thing wrong with that!!!!
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buckeye1 Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. Not a pilot.
However, NTSB would not investigate a military crash. Your link does reveal that small planes have many crashes. Most are private pilots that reach beyond their abilities and crash(JFKjr and Carnnahan's kid)there are others that are just not very good and the only job they can get is charter(Wellstone).

If Bush crashed a plane it would be noted. Another angle would be the TF-102. This was a trainer version. I was thinking that Bush did his "solo hours"( with a real pilot,left seat) there. Not to be nasty but, it is the signature of the Bush crime family.
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Rebellious Republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. I am not sure but was'nt he flying F111 interceptor's?
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 06:24 AM by Rebellious Republica
Its been twenty years since I was in, I was a Navy Photographersmate. I was assigned to work on military aircfraft crash investigations at the bases I was stationed at. I believe we worked with the FAA on all crash's. This was in the late 70's and early 80's. I could be wrong! Here is a link to the FAA http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/iirform.htm. But you can bet your bottom dollar that if there was a crash that Bush was in, there would documentation and PHOTo"s somewhere.
:kick:
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Rebellious Republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Here is an interesting read on the F111, involving ....
Catastrophic Failures....

Snip>F111 was one of the first aircraft designed for "Safe Life" as a result of the Aircraft Structural Integrity Program in the USA (1956). However, following several early aircraft losses, it was realised that relatively small flaws escaping detection during NDI at manufacture could lead to catastrophic failure in the highly stressed, high strength steel structure following a period of fatigue growth in a very short time frame. This led to the application of fracture mechanics principle to aircraft design and was used in the F111 recovery program in the form of the cold proof test. At the test temperature of - 40°C, the fracture toughness of the steel is reduced so that at critical load, small flaws undetectable by NDI can cause catastrophic failure. If the aircraft does not fail, then fracture mechanics principles can be used to predict a period of safe operations before the "proof test" flaw size grows to critical flaw size under normal operating conditions. F111 is the only aircraft ever built to depend for safety of operation on this test. This paper will briefly describe the history and technical basis for the Cold Proof Test, shortly to be established at RAAF Amberley.

Keywords: Aircraft Design, Fatigue, Safe-Life, Fracture Mechanics, Cold Proof Test.

Introduction
During pull-up from a rocket-firing pass at Nellis Airforce Base, Nevada, December 1969, an F111A experienced catastrophic failure of the left wing. The subsequent investigation determined that the failure initiated at a pre-existing manufacturing flaw in the lower plate of the wing pivot. The flaw was due to a forging fold in the high strength, D6ac steel forging which makes up the bottom plate. The flaw had passed undetected through inspections at manufacture and grew to critical size after only 100 flying hours<1>.<snip

http://www.ndt.net/article/apcndt01/papers/912/912.htm
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