ABC Nightline Monday: A Nation of Immigrants

[Bozita]

Nightline Daily E-Mail
February 16, 2004


TONIGHT'S FOCUS: It's one of the hot-button issues in this country, and has been for decades. Illegal immigration. Now the President has put forward a plan for reform. What is the reality of life for those who are here illegally? And can this country function without them?

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Let me engage in a little bit of hyperbole, except that what I am about to say really isn't much of an exaggeration. The restaurant business. Construction. The hotel industry. Agriculture. I think it's fair to say that none of those sectors of our economy could function without the workers who come into this country illegally, those who do not have the proper paperwork. In many cases, they take the jobs that other Americans won't take. It's often backbreaking work with low pay and long hours, but it's vital. Unemployment is a real problem in this country right now. Jobs are not being created fast enough. But there are not a lot of people lining up for these low-paying jobs. Would that change if the wages were higher? Maybe, but would all of us be willing to pay much more for our produce, or our meals in a restaurant, to cover those costs? Yet there is still a sense out there that "those people" are taking "our" jobs.

Like I said, we all know that it's a hot-button issue. So what to do? There's an increased concern in this age of terrorism that this country has lost control of its borders. So the President has proposed a fairly sweeping reform plan. Will it ever be implemented? It's easy to be cynical, it is an election year after all, and immigration reform has been an election-year staple for many many years. But it's clear that something needs to be done. Or does it? Do we need to change the status quo?

Chris Bury went out to Las Vegas, one of the fastest-growing cities, and economies, in the country. And not surprisingly, one that could not operate without the influx of undocumented workers, mostly from Mexico and the rest of Latin America. What's the reality of their lives? And will the President's proposals make things better? Those are some of the questions that we'll take on tonight.

One of my prized possessions is the ticket on the ship to America bought by the first member of my father's family to come to this country. It was a steerage ticket, and lays out just how much food he would get--so much flour, so much sugar, and all that. I'm sure that the crossing wasn't easy. When we look at this issue, it's a good thing, I think, to remember that this is a nation of immigrants. Some of our families may have been here longer than others, but someone made that first trip. Obvious, maybe, but worth remembering nevertheless.

Leroy Sievers and the Nightline Staff
ABCNEWS Washington D.C. bureau

[Virginian]

1. When my ancestors came to this country,

they wanted to be Americans.
Many of those who come here today, legally or illegally only want to become Citizens.

What is the difference? Those who want to become Citizens, do not want to become a part of the country as it is. They want the privileges of citizenship but do not choose to assimilate into this country's culture.

We were long known as the melting pot of cultures, but the new immigrant does not choose to melt into our cultural "stew." The new immigrant chooses to remain in cultural microcosms of their homelands thus never becoming a part of the American culture and never becoming "American."

[_Jumper_]

13. Spin

Previous immigrants came here for $$$$$$$. They tried to preserve their culture as best they could.

Prove your argument about today's immigrants. I hear Savage, Hannity, Grant, et al. use it all the time. However, I haven't seen any evidence presented that supports their claims. Find me ONE study that shows that immigrants aren't assimilating.

About 1/3 of native-born Hispanics marry outside their race. The number for native-born Asians approaches 50%. Compare that to the paltry intermarriage rates of previous immigrants. It is clear that today's immigrants are assimilating quicker than past ones. Past ones just didn't have right-wingers denouncing them 24/7 and misleading people about them by using isolated examples.

[Virginian]

15. Are you including Indians as Asians?

I have seen very few Indians who marry anyone other than Indians. If Indians are included in your Asian statistics, hardly any Chinese are marrying Chinese and hardly any Japanese are marrying Japanese, etc.

Everyone seems to want to look at the Hispanic immigrants who are coming here to take low paying and sometimes abusive jobs, but there is very little mention of the Indians who come over here to take the higher paying jobs. Most (but not all) of the Indians I have worked with intend to make money here and retire in India where the cost of living is cheaper and their savings will go further. If you were in their shoes wouldn't you?

In this case, the Citizenship allows them to get the job. They do not intend for their decendents to be American. They purchase property here, but that is an investment, not roots for the future. Their citizenship is a temporary status.

I have neighbors of both types on my street, those who will be returning to India and those who have been citizens for 20 years. The citizens for 20 years want to socialize and exchange cultural concepts, the Temps hardly speak to anyone except other Indians; their kids play only with other Indian kids.

I don't have any statistics on this, I haven't read about it or studied it, I am just relating my personal experiences.

[_Jumper_]

16. Yes

Here are some numbers for the "1.5" and 2nd generations: http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial2.shtml

They are similar to the other numbers and in male intermarriage with the dominant culture they rank first.

People are misled a bit on this because of Muslim South Asians who have low intermarriage rates because of religion.

[Virginian]

17. A major difference

Your statistics are for US raised demographics, my experiences are with immigrant co-workers who were NOT raised here. They have the background of growing up with only people who were just like them.

This is what I have been told from the Indians I have worked with. Most of them have been men, so I have heard his side more than hers. One woman was so against the arranged marriage that she refused to visit her parents in India, afraid they might set her up with someone.

The men go home to India to marry wives their families have chosen for them. Many of the men did not previously know their wives. But that is OK, their parents will choose wisely. The weddings are large and expensive. The families can't risk letting a young man choose his own bride. There are all kinds of interviews with the bride's family, background checks, etc. She must come from the same caste, the same socioeconomic background. The husband cannot have skeletons in his closet either. There is no dating. Young men socialize among themselves as do young women. They sometimes have what we might call group dating, but no pairing. Members of the opposite sex do not go out alone together, people might talk.

This does not make it easy for them to marry outside their culture.

[_Jumper_]

18. That's true (I'm of South Asian descent)

I was talking only about native-born and US raised ones. Still, I would be willing to bet that intermarriage rates for today's first generation immigrants are greater than they were in the past.

No comment on my views regarding the practice of arranged marriages. :evilgrin:

[Virginian]

22. I absolutely agree.

Part of the reason is the complete integration of the public schools.
Kids are learning that a person is more than skin color.
Adults are learning that there are more than two races.

The world is opening up and there are more languages to learn and more cultures to explore. That is one of the reasons why I think it is unfortunate when immigrants don't mingle outside their closed ethnic group.

[GRClarkesq]

2. If the supply of cheap labor dries up

employers will be forced to pay higher wages to US worker or innovate to accomplish the same task with technology and less worker. Either one puts more Americans to work.

How awful would that be?

BTW, I like immigrant just fine I'm an immigration lawyer. I just dont see creating a noncitizen underclass as a good thing for the US.

[Taeger]

3. BULLSHIT!!!!

What miraculous ancient lost secrets allowed Agriculture, Restaurants, Construction and Hotels to operate BEFORE the wave of illegal immigration?????

People don't hire illegals because they HAVE to. They hire illegals because they want to exploit lower wages.

BTW, I'm not Native American. BUT I AM NOT AN IMMIGRANT. I was born and raised in this country. My parents were born and raised in this country. THEIR parents were born and raised in this country!!!!!

I am an American. I'm not a Euro-Whatever. I'm just a fucking American and I resent the insinuation that I'm an immigrant. I've lived in Indiana my whole fucking life. I'm not an immigrant. I know no other home than the United States and Indiana.

This argument that we are "all immigrants" is just plain fucking insulting to Americans. All peoples who were born and raised in America, ARE NATIVES.

America is a unique country with a unique culture. We are not a country of foreigners. We are country of Americans.

[JasonDeter]

5. You are absolutely right.

But you didn't need me telling you that did you?

[Elwood P Dowd]

7. Give 'em hell Taeger

The illegal immigrants have allowed them to keep wages of non-skilled workers at slave-wage levels. If all the immigrants were sent home, their jobs would be filled by people making $8.00 to $10.00 an hour. The fat cats wouldn't make as much, but millions of Americans would have jobs, plus put billions of dollars back into the economy. Most of the immigrants send up to half of their wages back home (Mexico usually).

Don't tell me Americans refuse to do that work. Americans realize that living off unemployment or with relatives is better than working for $150.00 a week with zero benefits. Pay them a living wage, and they will be back out there doing it like they did a few years ago. And don't tell me a head of lettuce would cost $10.00. The labor cost of picking a head of lettuce is not even 10 cents. Would you be willing to pay an extra 20 cents if millions of Americans could get some decent jobs.? Would you be willing to pay an extra $1.00 for a steak at your favorite restaurant if millions of Americans found jobs? We would all be better off, and the added costs would be offset by lower taxes that were a result of fewer dollars going into social programs for unemployed Americans.

[locustfist76]

9. logic

That is very sound logic. You are one of the few posters that I have noticed that actually uses common sense over political partisanship. Sometimes we can solve problems despite the politics involved.

[Elwood P Dowd]

10. Thanks

I just discovered this board a few months ago. I'm just an ole cat from the 60s that went from demo to repub and now back to demo. Keep wondering around looking for someone like Harry Truman to lead us out of this abyss (is that the correct term?).

[locustfist76]

11. Ima

I'm actually a child of the 80's who would love for a moderate third party to arise. I'm stuck in the triangle between Libertarian/Liberal/Conservative. I like political discussion, but this group is very closed-minded. I was nearly booted my first day here just for having a descenting point of view. There's almost always more than one way to run a country. Both parties have good and bad ideas. The idea is to take the good from both and try to get this country back on track and unified.

[_Jumper_]

12. How?

How does the argument that we are all products of immigrants an insult to "real Americans"? Does that deprive "real Americans" of the ability to look down upon "fake Americans" or something?

[Taeger]

19. No ...

The insult is suggesting that I'm an immigrant because I'm descended from immigrants.

In reality, this is just a ploy that makes it seem like illegal aliens have just as much right to reside in America as I do. It's false, and I resent it.

I'm NOT an immigrant. I'm an American.

[Taeger]

20. No ...

The insult is suggesting that I'm an immigrant because I'm descended from immigrants.

In reality, this is just a ploy that makes it seem like illegal aliens have just as much right to reside in America as I do. It's false, and I resent it.

I'm NOT an immigrant. I'm an American.

[Taeger]

21. No ...

The insult is suggesting that I'm an immigrant because I'm descended from immigrants.

In reality, this is just a ploy that makes it seem like illegal aliens have just as much right to reside in America as I do. It's false, and I resent it.

I'm NOT an immigrant. I'm an American.

[JasonDeter]

4. I'm not afraid of illegal immigration

but to say the restaurant business, construction, hotel industry and agriculture would fold if the illegals were forced to go back to Mexico is a huge lie. There are many many people that would take those jobs, especially today, many would take them as a second job to help pay off the huge debt American's are under. So don't lie to me telling me no one else would take the jobs. That is a ploy used by those who advocate illegal immigration. A majority of American's don't believe it.

[Taeger]

8. Limitless supply for Restaurants ..

There is a limitless supply of would be actors eager to fill those jobs in Restaurants ;-)

[locustfist76]

6. Neither

Neither political party cares to do anything about illegal immigration. They both are fearful of loosing the all important Latino vote. I personally understand the plight of those who choose to come to this country illegally. They're just trying to find a better life for themselves and their family. Of course, they're still illegal residents. Maybe citizenship should be a simpler, shorter process. I know many legals who would be productive citizens, but the process can be a 10-year process. Personally, I would give full citizenship to anyone who could pass some type of English language test. Or maybe immigration should be tied to unemployment. The lower the rate, the more we let in. Who knows, but like others have commented, the term melting pot is becoming a foreign concept.

[_Jumper_]

14. The melting pot is dead?

Take a look at intermarriage rates for 2nd and 3rd generation Americans of Hispanic and Asian descent. They are melting away FAR more rapidly than the past waves of immigrants did...